I know this has been discussed (and I did do a search) but I am still a little unclear. Should the first stages be exactly perpendicular to the valves or is some "tilt" allowed (see attached). The reason I ask is that with the exact perpendicular orientation I am not even sure I can screw them in all the way because of the bending of the hoses (I might if I took off my hose protectors).
I found this pic when doing my search so these aren't mine...the left post here is a DS4 and has the "tilt" I was talking about...
Thanks!
jetblast00
August 30th, 2002, 10:25 AM
I don't really think that it matters... I've seen both, and it doesn't appear that either would pose more of an entanglement possibility over the other.
Personaly, I screw my zeagle flathead's in perpendicular. I use really heavy hose protectors, and even though the some of the hoses end up doing 90 degrees off of the tank shoulders, the angle is rounded and wide enough because of the heavy hose protectors to not cause hose damage.
Plus, I don't really like the angle I'd have to put in the secondary 2nd stage hose coming from the left post, angled out left and then bending it to the right... eats up alot of hose length too... I use a 24" hose on my bungeed reg.
Although, if you had a scubapro/atomic design with the LP butt port, this would be a non-issue. In that case, I would angle them and use a 22" on the bungeed reg...
WreckWriter
August 30th, 2002, 10:36 AM
I use a bit of tilt (not much) and no hose protectors.
Tom
WreckWriter
August 30th, 2002, 10:38 AM
O-ring once bubbled...
I found this pic when doing my search so these aren't mine...the left post here is a DS4 and has the "tilt" I was talking about...
Thanks!
I use less tilt than that. Also my bands are a good deal higher on my tanks than his which changes the routing angle a bit.
Tom
roakey
August 30th, 2002, 12:07 PM
I've got hose protectors and no tilt.
As an aside I really like how the DS4s stay clear of the knobs!
roakey once bubbled...
As an aside I really like how the DS4s stay clear of the knobs!
This is a big issue to me, especially wearing smurf mitts.
WreckWriter
August 30th, 2002, 12:18 PM
cwb once bubbled...
Pat's website (http://www.northeastdir.com/gearpage1.htm)
those are not DS4s, they're flathead 6s.
tom
roakey
August 30th, 2002, 12:45 PM
WreckWriter once bubbled...
those are not DS4s, they're flathead 6s.
Yup, and look how they block access to the knobs.
Roak
jetblast00
August 30th, 2002, 12:50 PM
roakey once bubbled...
Yup, and look how they block access to the knobs.
Roak
That's why I like my Zeagle Flathead's... they don't have that "flare" at the top where the ports are. That way you can lay them upside down than what is pictured with the Apex's. The longer part ('bottom') of the 1st stage points in, not out and blocking access to the knobs:
http://www.zeagle.com/reg2001_models.htm
But the hoses come off the reg strait down into the tank shoulder, hence the heave hose protectors.
WreckWriter
August 30th, 2002, 12:57 PM
roakey once bubbled...
Yup, and look how they block access to the knobs.
Roak
yup. DS4s rock.
Tom
O-ring
August 30th, 2002, 01:35 PM
Mine will be tilted...I will play with it when I get home, but try as I might I couldn't get them to look like MHK's with my hose protectors. Then again, he is diving suboptimal gear anyway (kidding...just watched Dreamchasers again at lunch)..
patmandu
August 30th, 2002, 04:07 PM
roakey once bubbled...
Yup, and look how they block access to the knobs.
Roak
They really don't block any access to the knobs. The picture may not show this, but I never had a problem in the least with reaching the knobs in this setup (the picture is of my 'old' rig).
I now dive Scubapro on backgas (MK20's) and they route even better than the Apeks.
--Pat
roakey
August 30th, 2002, 04:45 PM
patmandu once bubbled...
They really don't block any access to the knobs. The picture may not show this, but I never had a problem in the least with reaching the knobs in this setup (the picture is of my 'old' rig).
I now dive Scubapro on backgas (MK20's) and they route even better than the Apeks.
--Pat
The difference may be that I'm a klutz. :)
Mk20s were my orginal back gas regs, then DSTs and now DS4s. The 'ol stage bottle migration route. :) I do like the Mk20s for back gas, didn't like the DSTs but REALLY like the DS4s!
Roak
TEX
September 3rd, 2002, 06:05 AM
I was thinking of starting a new thread, but this seems as good a place for my question as any. I'm in the market for some new regs and am going through the Scubapro/Apeks debate. I'm wondering what everyone seems to be leaning towards. I've seen a lot of y'all here like the DS4. How does that compare to the Flathead 6 or the ATX 200 1st stage (hose routing on doubles and performance). It's a question between the Mk25/S600 or the Apeks, and if the Apeks, which ones (DS4, Flathead 6, ATX200). All Apeks would be using the new, smaller ATX adjustable seconds. I'll probably go through simplyscuba or diveinn 'cause none of the shops aound my parts carry the Apeks if I go that route. Thanks for the help.
Travis
roakey
September 3rd, 2002, 09:05 AM
I like the hose routing on the DS4 is just a tiny bit better than the Mk20/25. Also the Mk20/25 has a swivel, which is a failure point.
But most importataly if you look at the price/performance of the Apeks vs. Scubapro, Apkes comes out WAY ahead.
Scubapro has always been very proud of their equipment, and sets their prices accordingly.
All my swivel 1sts (Mk20s and DSTs) have been migrated to my stage/deco regs.
Roak
Lost Yooper
September 3rd, 2002, 10:53 AM
I traded a TX100 for my ATX50/DS4, and though I don't regret it, I'll probably go back to TX100's for my doubles. I like the hose routing a bit better, and with the longer Sherwood knobs (which I don't have yet), there will be plenty of room to grasp the knobs. Six to one....
Mike
O-ring
September 4th, 2002, 11:50 PM
I got the perpendicular thing to work pretty well, although the HP hose bend made Divernva squirm...
With a Halcyon wing, what length inflator hose are you guys running?
roakey
September 5th, 2002, 06:50 AM
My new 36# wing came with a 22" inflator hose...
Roak
Rickoz
September 6th, 2002, 07:22 AM
Roakey I use MK20s & D400s .
One day I used a mates ATX 200 that he just serviced infront of me (dive store owner).
I'll never buy them for a main reg set, like sucking through a straw compaired to my setup
But I have a question as well :) If one was to buy two regs for deco, One for 100% O2 the other for air bailout whats the the go, keeping both the same type / model.
What do you all use & would you get it again.
roakey
September 6th, 2002, 09:13 AM
Rickoz once bubbled...
Roakey I use MK20s & D400s .
One day I used a mates ATX 200 that he just serviced infront of me (dive store owner).
I'll never buy them for a main reg set, like sucking through a straw compaired to my setup
It wasn’t serviced correctly. Apeks breathe wonderfully, sorry you breathed a lemon. If you talk to people that have had regulator failures (free flows, burping, hard breathing, leaks, etc.) almost ALWAYS it’s immediately after servicing. This is another LDS pet peeve of mine -- LDS’ love to talk the “life support equipment” line to make sales but they rarely ever walk it with service. They’ll service a reg and throw it out the door with only minor testing.
After all, if there’s a problem the customer will bring it back for a “free” fixup, right?
My Mk20s/G250s are on my stage/deco bottles along with my old DSTs/TX50s. One Mk20/G250 even has pretty green plastic that I use for pure O2.
Roak
Scubaroo
September 9th, 2002, 12:42 AM
Has anyone tried ATX200 regs for hose routing? I have the opportunity to borrow a wing and doubles and do some practice diving with an experienced tec diver, and was going to pick up a pair of DS4's and use my existing TX40/50 second stages, but am thinking about the ATX200 first stages, and that they may have better hose routing than the "angled" DS4 mounting.
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 06:46 PM
A couple people asked me to post so they could answer their own hose routing questions...here is that post and some pics.
Which way would you route it? Tilted or straight?
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 06:48 PM
Another angle
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 06:48 PM
...to show the angle...
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 06:49 PM
or straight...
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 06:50 PM
...
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 07:14 PM
Thanks to bengiddins for the link...
WreckWriter
September 9th, 2002, 07:32 PM
O-ring once bubbled...
or straight...
One problem with this one: the bands are way too low. This rig will beat hell outta your head. With the bands raised the routing isn't so pretty but still works (you get more bend on the straight down hoses).
Bands should be JUST below the curve.
Tom
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 09:38 PM
Bands should be JUST below the curve.
Is JUST below the curve like "on the bottom of the curve is the top of the band" or "there is an inch or so before the band"?
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 09:58 PM
How far? An inch?
Uncle Pug
September 9th, 2002, 10:17 PM
move it up until the top edge of the band is no longer in contact with the cylinder... then move it back down until it is.
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 10:44 PM
Dang, and I was going to go to bed early too...
Now that you have me squared away on the bands, what about the regs? A little tilt with both facing in, or straight with both facing in, or straight with both facing the same way?
Uncle Pug
September 9th, 2002, 11:08 PM
O-ring once bubbled...
Dang, and I was going to go to bed early too...
what about the regs?
the reg on the right post should face east and the reg on the left post should face west if you are facing south.... go to bed Eric.
O-ring
September 9th, 2002, 11:56 PM
the reg on the right post should face east and the reg on the left post should face west if you are facing south....
So the seals on the bottom face each other then...that makes sense.
go to bed Eric.
I can't..my regs aren't right yet!
Uncle Pug
September 10th, 2002, 12:42 AM
O-ring once bubbled...
I can't..my regs aren't right yet!
You are going to bed not diving....
But so you can go to sleep...
I will tell you:
You can angle the regs slightly down if you like...
Or you can have them exactly perpendicular to the tanks....
Or you can have one tilted a little up and the other tilted a little down...
Just don't have them pointing out.
There... now I know you are not only anally retentive but also obsessive compulsive... but you will just have to live with the fact that the regulators do not have to be exactly positioned to be correct.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
unless of course..... hmmm... pehaps we had better leave that for another day.... ;)
O-ring
September 10th, 2002, 08:41 AM
There... now I know you are not only anally retentive but also obsessive compulsive... but you will just have to live with the fact that the regulators do not have to be exactly positioned to be correct.
I should have taken a clue a while back...I don't step on cracks and use a new Neutrogena each time I wash my hands (200-300 times daily) with scalding water. I also clip and unclip my bolt snaps ten times each when donning my rig and count it out loud. :out:
WreckWriter
September 10th, 2002, 08:52 AM
and what are you doing with those big "nitrox" stickers on your bottles? :)
"Chief, what the hell is this?"
Tom
O-ring
September 10th, 2002, 09:02 AM
Yeah, real rule 6 violation, eh? Not to mention, if they start to peel off a little and stick me to the wreck. I just can't scrape up the $299.99 (ea.) for Halcyon nitrox stickers this month...just bought a drysuit.. :(
