Are you a CYBER-DIVER ??

[CincyBengalsFan]

Talking with some folks from a different dive shop today I heard a NEW term... CYBERDIVER. Evidentally, this is what we now call folks who have little dive experience but all kinds of posts on the board and talking smack on the board. If you are a cyberdiver does this make you a knowledgeable enough diver to coax new divers and give them advice????

I personally don't think so. You really need to get out in the REAL world and get some diving under your belt with all kinds of gear and all kinds of places before you should talk smack about diving.

To the MAN that said CYBERDIVER today. My hat's off to you!!!

[WreckWriter]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
I personally don't think so. You really need to get out in the REAL world and get some diving under your belt with all kinds of gear and all kinds of places before you should talk smack about diving.

I agree 100%. Anyone can look good on a message board. Do the dives before you talk about them.

Tom

[Aquamaniac]

:thumb: :whack:

Too many "experts".........

[Bob]

I've thought for a long time that most of the so called "experts" on this board, and others, spend more time writing about diving than they actually spend diving. Diving isn't rocket science like some guys try to make it. That's why I rarely post anymore, too many cyber experts out there with ALL the answers and no experience to back it up. :tree: Bob

[ckharlan66]

Yep, Probably.

I have alot more post than dives. But reading and participating in this board has provided me with knowledge that would have taken many many years to gather elsewhere. I can discuss with more experienced divers the diffent agencies and there requirements, different types of equipment and different opinions on them and I have a better knowledge of dive medicine and dive physics. I find that there are alot of people out there that are not aware of alot of the aspects of our sport that this board has exposed me to.

I try to keep quite when I don't know the answer to a question and I don't even argue, well not too much anyway.

Thanks to everyone envolved in this board for providing me with this knowledge and thanks to the creators of the board for providing us with a source for our dive education.

Chad

[jonnythan]

But I get out and dive every opportunity I get. This board has been a supremely rich source of knowledge for me.. that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Perhaps the person who coined this term isn't comfortable with newbie divers learning so much without having to do it all the hard way? Anything that spreads such volumes of diving knowledge (aka this board) is a good thing if you ask me.

Anyway, I don't find myself "talking smack on the board" about stuff I don't have much experience with.

As for the "spend more time writing about diving than they actually spend diving"... that's fair, but writing and reading about diving I can do all day at work... actually diving is a bit more complicated and can only be done once or twice a week.

I've probably learned more just from reading and participating in this board than I have since my OW class ended (March of last year). I don't claim to have all the answers or anything.. every dive I do, I realize more and more how little I *do* know. That's why I appreciate the guys (and girls) on the board.. helping realize what I don't know, helping me learn constantly, making me realize what to pay attention to on dives, that kinda stuff. The board is a great place... I guess it gets to some people's heads, but I try not to let it get to mine. If it does, I've no doubt I'll hear about it ;)

I'm a *far* more conscientious, safer, attentive diver thanks to this board.

So, thanks Scuba Board for making me a Cyberdiver :mean:

[NetDoc]

most of the "Cyber-Divers" are readily apparent by their posts. You have to have the time in the suds in order to make ANY sense. You should never give advice outside of your experiences or expertise. Thats why I don't tell people how to cave dive or dive tri-mix etc. etc.

That being said... I have seen a lot of the armchair divers learn a LOT before they get a chance to endanger themselves or others... this is a good thing. I have also been exposed to some types of diving environments that I would not normally be exposed to... and I get to ask questions about them too. Experience is very important, but I am glad that we have this place to learn from so many REAL experts. You can tell who they are, and if you are wise, you will listen to them.

[JT2]

I know a few old divers that have done all the dives and they don't know @#$%! I also know some fairly new divers that are very serious about learning and are also better divers from the start than some of the old-timers that have done it all. A lot of dive training could be taught by someone who has never dove before, as a matter of fact there are more than one of these type people in the commercial diving industry. Water skills is only part of it guys, and I don't care how many dives you have, that alone does not make you more qualified to answer and post on this board. I guess we all need to send in our log books to see if we are really qualified to be on the board....jeez, give me a break.

[Scuba]

I agree with JT2. Just read the posts about the DIRF classes and you will see how well all these expert, experienced divers do when challenged with what DIR considers basic diving skills.

Experience does'nt necessarily translate into competence or knowledge.

As far as debating about any aspect of diving. I agree one should know what one is talking about. On the other hand, how many times to we think we understand something until someone shows us a better understanding. No exchange of ideas, no growth, no learning, no correction of wrong ideas.

Also, even the experts disagree.

Those who claim to know what they don't are as dangerous as those who claim to have the final answer.

[jonnythan]

And now it seems to me that maybe the "experienced" divers trying to belittle us "cyberdivers" may be the ones "talking smack about" certain diving styles or gear configurations, never having tried them or taken the class....

I've never really said much either way beyond appearances, but I do see a lot of people smacking this or that when they have absolutely no experience with it.. whether it's DIR, an online store, or what...

So maybe it's backwards... maybe not.

[JamesK]

Well, since I spend a LOT more time here at work then I do diving, it is hard to say. However, I do anywhere from 5-20 dives a month also. I use this board more as a way to pass time at work, since I never go online anywhere else.

[raviepoo]

Do you mean that anyone with less than 1000 dives under their belt should just shut up and stop posting? Some of the new divers on this board have posted things that offer everyone (including themselves) opportunities to learn and become safer divers.

One post that springs to mind was from someone who got bent on his first dive post certification. As details crept out over the course of several posts it turned out that he had done almost everything wrong. There was a lot of material from the OW and AOW classes that he apparently did not understand. Hopefully, responses from board members helped him realize that he needs better training if he wants to dive again.

I might not be a life long dive goddess, but I know enough to tell when someone at or below my level of experience and certification is doing something dangerous. Why shouldn't I post about what I know? You don't find me posting anything about cave diving or ice diving do you? You dont find me offering advice on decompression diving just because I am in the middle of learning to do it.

One thing that kind of steams me is when people trash gear they have never used. I switched over to force fins last summer. I've done about 75 dives with them since. They work much better for me than the fins I used previously or any rental or borrowed fins I have tried. I am kind of tired of seeing them trashed by people who have never used them. Try them first. If you hate them, trash them to you hearts content. But if you have never had a pair on your feet, keep your baseless opinion to yourself.

[miked]

The initial post on this thread did make me wonder about this situation. As I read more posts, I was dismayed to see the "battle lines" being drawn. Why must it so often dissolve into an "us vs. them" situation??
I think that with any advice, opinion, or input, you need to consider the source. Admittedly, this can be much harder to do "on line" than in person.
I agree with NetDoc in that very often you can tell the "wheat from the chaff" regarding what, if any, substance exists to lend credence and support to an opinion.
I feel that I have benefitted from many different people on this Board, with a wide variety of experiences, philosophies, training, etc.
I do agree with the idea that, as in "real life", some posts indicate a desire to "pontificate" on a topic where the actual supportive experiences, training, knowledge, etc. of the posting person are limited.
And, remember BS has no requirements of any type. {To which some of you may say" for example, this post by MikeD" :) }

Some free suggestions, remembering that you get what you pay for:
Readers: Consider the source, and if that means checking a profile, other posts, do so. Keep in mind that the internet is a great place to share info, but that it is also open to too many unchallenged opinions. [ Although I see very few opinions go unchallenged on this board.] Also remember the old saying about opinions- that " they are like a!@#$%^es, everybody has one"

Posters(?): to help people know "where you are at" in terms of experience,etc- include relevant info- in the post , your profile,etc.
Also, if you are stating an opinion- at least indicate that it is an opinion, and/or also indicate the basis for that opinion -your own experience, an instructor, something you read. These things may help the strength of your position.
I guess it goes back to what I said first: Consider the source,and use your own brain to evaluate what you read/see/hear- not just here, not just on the internet, but everywhere.

Good luck,
Mike

[CincyBengalsFan]

Wow, I didn't think I would have that many responses backing me up. Glad I'm not the only one out here. Anyway, without a doubt someone throws DIR in on a Thread. GIVE IT UP! Dive Shops and Dive Instructors EVERYWHERE will get further buy teaching people to have fun and not turning class into a drill camp.

This is of course an "OPINION" for those of you that couldn't figure it out.

Also, I see someone has asked what type of experience we have. 19 yrs. diving. 1000+ dives (Everywhere). PADI, NASDS, CMAS, YMCA, & NASDS instructor. TRAINED BY Ralph Ericson (Yes, PRESIDENT OF PADI & CO-FOUNDER). Also trained by Chairman of the Board for YMCA SCUBA out of Muncie, Ind.

So, I do get perturbed when I see and hear cyberdivers talking it up and giving opinions on gear they have never seen nor tried.

I see also where experience doesn't always count towards diving knowledge according to some folks. Well, it appears somehow then, that the SCUBA industry is the ONLY industry on this entire PLANET where experience doesn't count! LOL!!!! Give me a break guys.

The lines were drawn when you called a few million of us divers, STROKES, and a few other names.

Cyberdivers...The entire point is that this is not a subsitute for experience in the water. I'm taking flight lessons right now...I would NEVER consider myself an expert just because I chat with Pilots all day. Or that My best friend flies a Jet and 2 others are A & P's in the airline industry. Or that 4 of my other friends are in Helicopters 4 days a week in the Military 30 miles down the road.
I absolutely LOVE the term Cyberdiver.

Someone said we may not like it that newbies are learning more on the board or something to that tune. Again...LOL..LOL...You think instructors don't want people to learn more? LOL

For everyone on this post...How many dives do you really have?

[JamesK]

What does this have to do with DIR? Now you have confused me?

[CincyBengalsFan]

I has nothing to do with DIR. Someone in an ealier post brought DIR into it.
AGAIN..THIS THREAD has NOTHING to do with DIR. Just cyberdivers.

[JamesK]

Okie Dokie. I am not as confuse anymore. Sorry, it has been a long, slow, sleepy day at work! :D

[raviepoo]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


The lines were drawn when you called a few million of us divers, STROKES, and a few other names.



I wasn't quite sure why you posted your original post. Now it's clear. You're upset because some DIR weenie failed to recognize your authority and called you a stroke.

Let it go. The DIR folks have no power over you. They won't come to your garage and change your gear configuration. I haven't heard of any dive boats kicking people off for "doing it wrong."

I can see how you might get annoyed at a brand new diver who thinks he's a better diver than you because you are a stroke. Why pay him any mind? Think of him as someone with the blind zeal of a brand new religious convert. He has to make you wrong in order to ensure that he is right.

There's enough water out there for everyone to dive in. If the DIR weenies piss you off, just ignore them.

Maybe this is a guy thing and I just don't understand?

[JamesK]

Why do you feel the need to refer to DIR divers as weenies?

[jonnythan]

raviepoo once bubbled...
I wasn't quite sure why you posted your original post. Now it's clear. You're upset because some DIR weenie failed to recognize your authority and called you a stroke.

Let it go. The DIR folks have no power over you. They won't come to your garage and change your gear configuration. I haven't heard of any dive boats kicking people off for "doing it wrong."

I can see how you might get annoyed at a brand new diver who thinks he's a better diver than you because you are a stroke. Why pay him any mind? Think of him as someone with the blind zeal of a brand new religious convert. He has to make you wrong in order to ensure that he is right.

There's enough water out there for everyone to dive in. If the DIR weenies piss you off, just ignore them.

Maybe this is a guy thing and I just don't understand?

Sounds like you're just bitter over being called a stroke or something, so you're trying to rally the board against these "cyberdivers." You totally blew up over the term DIR, even though only one person mentioned it.. I should have seen that..

Leave your hate and flaming behind. Just because you've got 1000+ dives doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about diving.. do *you* have experience with DIR, or are you flaming something with no experience in it? Wouldn't that make *you* a cyberdiver? Hm...

BTW, I got a good chuckle when I read "AGAIN..THIS THREAD has NOTHING to do with DIR. Just cyberdivers." Reminds me of the kid asking some embarrassing question by starting with "a friend wants to know..."

"no, it's the friend, not me! just the friend!"

Let it go, man... stress and hate will kill you.

[jonnythan]

JamesK once bubbled...
Why do you feel the need to refer to DIR divers as weenies?

I am speaking for someone else, but... I don't think she meant to say that all DIR divers are weenies. She said "some DIR weenie.." I think we can both agree that there exist some DIR weenies in the world, and they're usually the ones belitting non-DIR divers.

[JamesK]

jonnythan once bubbled...


I am speaking for someone else, but... I don't think she meant to say that all DIR divers are weenies. She said "some DIR weenie.." I think we can both agree that there exist some DIR weenies in the world, and they're usually the ones belitting non-DIR divers.

Agreed, there are quite a few. The thing that erks the hell out of me is how some people react to an arrogant DIR diver. They make the claim that DIR divers are arrogant, and then insult them. They are as bad as the DIR divers they are talking about, IMO.

[raviepoo]

It's not about DIR. I'm sure DIR works just fine for those who choose to adhere to it.


raviepoo once bubbled...


There's enough water out there for everyone to dive in. If the DIR weenies piss you off, just ignore them.



It's better to just live and let live.

There are lots of people who insist that their way is the only way. I generally ignore them, unless they set a tank down on my mask. Fanatics and missionaries of all sorts vex the spirit.

[JamesK]

Sorry. :(

[Scuba]

CyncyBengalsFan wrote:


CYBERDIVER. Evidentally, this is what we now call folks who have little dive experience but all kinds of posts on the board and talking smack on the board. If you are a cyberdiver does this make you a knowledgeable enough diver to coax new divers and give them advice????

I personally don't think so. You really need to get out in the REAL world and get some diving under your belt with all kinds of gear and all kinds of places before you should talk smack about diving.


I wrote:


Just read the posts about the DIRF classes and you will see how well all these expert, experienced divers do when challenged with what DIR considers basic diving skills.

As a way to demonstrate that folks who we could "assume" had plenty of experience and have tried many different types of gear may not "necessarily" be "very" skillful divers under certain standards. Since many fail to demonstrate an adequate skill level in these classes. (from what I've have read in these posts and others)

How many experience people have you known who are incapable of instructing, explaining how they do something or are set in their bad habits.

To answer your question directly: Possibly. A Cyberdiver who has thoroughly studied an aspect of diving could be eminently more qualified to give certain advise than someone who has many dives. And possibly not. It all depends on specifics, does it not?

In addition, CyncyBengalsFan you wrote:


I see also where experience doesn't always count towards diving knowledge according to some folks. Well, it appears somehow then, that the SCUBA industry is the ONLY industry on this entire PLANET where experience doesn't count! LOL!!!! Give me a break guys

Possibly in response to my quote:


Experience does'nt necessarily translate into competence or knowledge.

Did you miss the word "necessarily". Read what is said, not what you intend to see. No biggie. I am guilty as charged, as well.

As Calvin told Hobbe's after one of their escapades in reply to Hobbe's " We should have known this by now" - "Yea Hobbe's, thats us - We Live And Don't Learn".

Yes, experience "usually" translates into knowledge. To a lesser degree it translates into useful information learned.

On the subject of the necessary personal qualification to speak:
In a perfect world we would debate a premise on its merit. Not on the character of the messenger or the price of tea in China. But then that would put many at a serious dis-advantage.

PS. By the way CyncyBengalsFan, the last sentence above is not directed at you in any way. I'm not trying to start a flame war here. Its just a general term.

[scubamax]

A few observations:

1) More than one previous poster indicates that they spend time on this board at "work"... I guess if the entire world was composed of cyberdivers the economy would grind to a halt:)

2) I agree that a lot of people can learn a lot of good stuff on this board, but remember the good old days before the Internet? A lot of good stuff is in the usual "rags" (er sorry, "mags)" of the diving world, which helps out the beginner to the more advanced divers keep on top of things. I do have to agree however that an interactive, real-time tool like this board is really a great way to get great information. Just remember that the more diverse the sources of information you tap into, the more resourceful you will be.

3) Now, I have to get back to work! :D

Scubamax

[CincyBengalsFan]

SCUBA, No flame between us or pretty much between anyone on here. I just heard a term yesterday that was 100% accurate in my opinion(Cyberdiver) and wanted to see what kind of response I would get. I know my posts are EXTREME at times but sometimes that is what it takes. My favorite on here is the one that said "Look at the source". It all rolls off me like water(Irony). I know DIR & GUE are truely great programs...I just disagree with the ScubaNazi's on board.

Scuba will be so much more joyful on our weekends if we could all just sitback and have a grand ole time. Unfortunetly I see and HEAR divers talking about other divers consistently. I personally can't stand this and it's really burning me out QUICK. I see the skydiving community. When someone is poor in skill they are not talked about or picked on or even black marked. Others work with the person or simply except that it will take time for that person to gain experience. I guess I look at it that way, Scuba Divers need experience to become a good diver and not necessarily a class or seminar. And until they gain that experience I will NOT hold poor diving againts them unless it is, in fact, life threatening.

By the way...UK just beat U of L today.... WHAT A HECK OF A GAME.....

[TCDiver1]

Agree with many who have said use your head & sort them out on your own. Sure there are cyberdivers out there who spout more than they know or have experienced. Diving is the same as anything else, where the few may try to control the many. IMO there is nothing wrong with a cyberdiver who doesn't spout more than they know or have experienced. Those that do are just frauds who just happen to be cyberdivers. Don't let the buggers, cyberdivers or not, get you down. Lest you empower them to control your life .... a BAD thing!

IMO go tactical, and flush em out! Heres something i do that helps accomplish said mission of fraud flushing.

Pm the poster you are trying to figure out. The one on one dialogue tends to be much less emotionally charged & more productive then some threads can become. If they don't respond to your Pm, then you probably know where you stand on their pecking order. Doesn't always mean they are a fraud but can be a good indicator of genuine they are.

Over many years of diving and observing divers i have found one thing to be generally (and i emphasise GENERALLY) true: the person on the boat or dive who is "talking the talk" the loudest, is the one who will probably have the most trouble on the dive. I have often wondered if the same is true with this board?
:confused:

Funny thing happened to me once in Cozumel. Was sitting at a pool bar with a friend when i heard a voice i thought i recognized. Looking past a palm tree i could see a former student i had certified the year before. Now this guy was a decent student who would have done better had he not tried to teach the class for me. "Why do i have to do mask removal and replacement, thats stupid!" ...... etc,etc. Back to Coz, i go into stealth mode when i hear him spout something about 20 years diving experience and over 2000 logged dives. Hmmm, this is getting interesting so i hunker down lower, to strange looks from the bartender and my friend. He is going on & on about diving truk lagoon & Fiji & you name it. I'm thinking to myself, this dudes been real active the last year. This guy was convincing, he could and was, talking the talk, he just had not walked the walk. Everyone in the group he was talking to was mesmerized by what he was saying and he was a complete fraud.

I'm sorry to say that after a long week of diving i had neither the energy or desire to go screw with the putz. I did however mess with him back home several months later when i saw him. The look on his face was priceless when i repeated some of the bull he was spouting in Coz.

So reader beware, you never really know who is real and who is a fraud unless you dive with them in person.

[jonnythan]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
I guess I look at it that way, Scuba Divers need experience to become a good diver and not necessarily a class or seminar. And until they gain that experience

I'm afraid you're a Cyberdiver, CincyBengalsFan...

You're talking about particular diving methods of which you have *zero* experience...

[unit240]

The thing that bothers me most about this, is that I was there when the term "Cyberdiver" was coined. It fit perfectly for the discussion we were having. The discussion started when I made the statement that I did not understand why someone would try to give me advice on diving when they have maybe 12 more dives than me. I am relatively new and read these posts for information on equipment or diving that I have no experience with. For someone to offer up advice or want to lead you without having been there and done that is ridiculous. Don't think that I am saying a person can teach or be an instructor just because he or she has been diving for umpteen years, it takes a good combination of "been there and done that" and the ability to teach or instruct. I have seen many people in my line of work that can't instruct but have had many years of experience. I have also seen people that can instruct but didn't have the experience to back it up. That person gets little, if any respect. "I" would much rather deal with the person that's been there. I know that Bengalsfan didn't start this thread as an "us versus them" thread.

[CincyBengalsFan]

You said it Unit. I really like GEDUNK's post too.

[hitomi316]

well this is under"basic scuba discussions" and that to me (opinion) is a chat room where you say, gossip, chat all you want....no matter your expirience or non- expirience, plain and simple. As for a more educational, professional discussion you can go to other forums reguarding wrecks, equiptment,cave or tek talk so just leave it that way! Newbies should not be faced with answering to someone who thinks or feels they are more "knowledgeable".Just get on with it would ya! Let "them" be "whoever "or "whatever "they want to be online, all of the more expirienced divers know the truth and it is Very apparent that when they read something that is a little"off" , they respond,(thank God for these folks!) Let something else nerve you, don't get all caught up with who is and who isn't....by your standards, really is a waste of energy.

this thread is really stupid.....and btw, that's MY OPINION (whether it counts or not):tease:

[CincyBengalsFan]

Sounds like your a little nerved about this thread yourself??? In fact, in my opinion, only a cyberdiver would be upset by this thread.

I was going to respond. But why...

[jonnythan]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
Sounds like your a little nerved about this thread yourself??? In fact, in my opinion, only a cyberdiver would be upset by this thread.

I guess that explains why you got so worked up in a couple of your posts to this thread :)

[medic13]

I had never heard that term but yes it dont make you a very knowledgeable person to tell others what to do just my thoughts too

[CincyBengalsFan]

The entire point of this post is missed be a few. But OH WELL..LOL


Medic..I see you are in Chatanooga. You know Ed Mogio down there? He used to own ChooChoo scuba.

[MNScuba]

Well, speaking just for myself I suppose there have been times where I could have been called a cyberdiver. I was posting on this board before I was certified, had probably 200+ posts by the time I finally DID get certified... Did I give advice, yes...did I answer questions, yes...was I ever corrected, YES! All-in-all, it was a good experience and I made it very clear that I was a 'newbie' to say the least. However I don't feel that I gave bad advice, just limited advice. Believe it or not, it IS possible to know about something without doing it. When it comes to comparisons however, that's a different story. Nowadays, I only answer things I know something about... As an example, when I get into a thread comparing one to another (ScubaPro vs Apeks, etc) I recommend ScubaPro because that's what I use...however I also make it clear that Apeks seems like a good choice as well, but I can't pick that over ScubaPro because I've never used it.

I am going to go out on a limb here and just say that we've probably all been a 'cyberdiver' at one point or another.

However you decide to dive have fun, be safe and respect each other.

[hitomi316]

i am guilty, i let a fellow diver and her opinion nerve me to the point where i would respond to such a ridiculous thread, the same way a simple term "cyberdiver" got to her nerve!! What the heck, she wrote this thread because she had nothing more interesting to vent about, actually the same reason why i responded in the first place!! (imagine that)
As far as ME being a cyberdiver, well that is only an opinion. In a popular site like this, if you're going to participate, then you must think of it this way..."opinions are allowed, afterall, we all agree to disagree". No reason for name calling though, that's plain childish.
In the water there are no secret handshakes or signals, diving is the plan here....not who does what or where.Usually a diver that is new to the sport will research out any advice given to them via another expirienced diver. I mean, i would, i wouldn't take one persons advice w/o checking it out further... i mean it could mean my life underwater! I would think that if a newbie was out diving with someone with alot more expirience, they would not have a problem with pride and they would ask for some pointers, are there people out there that try to act like they have been diving for years? Would they really risk their life and possibly someone elses?i know i wouldn't so no matter how much expirience i have (or have not)i'll be asking if need be. I would not take one persons advice off the internet w/o looking into it further......Cyberdivers don't do that do they?

[CuriousMe]

Evidently if you agree with CincyBengals Fan, you're not a CyberDiver and if you don't agree you must be?

Seems to just be about what one person thinks.....no offense to CincyBengalsFan....don't know you at all....but why would I care if someone thought I was a cyberdiver or anything else on this board....no one here has seen me or diving or otherwise. Again, no offense intended, but I don't see the point.

Life's to short...go diving.

Peace,
Cathie

[CincyBengalsFan]

Your right curious, Let's just dive..ALL OF US

[MikeS]

BengalsFan,

If you want to call me a cyber-diver, I will consider the source and therefore not care! On the other hand if I am posting misinformation or representing my opinion as fact, please let me know so I can correct it!

If the information in a post is correct, than it’s correct. An opinion is and opinion. This is true whether posted by a veteran of 10,000 dives or an OW student. In some instances, especially pertaining to the process of learning to dive, the perceptions and experiences of a fellow novice are more pertinent than that of the grizzled veteran that can’t even remember OW class.

I have no idea what motivated your post. I fear that your post may discourage new divers from posting and that’s a bad thing. I suggest that if you are really concerned you should start your own board; perhaps call it “the elitist non-cyber-diver scuba board.” You could elect yourself President for life and grant posting privileges only to those you feel “qualified.” Whatever you intent your efforts appear to be an attempt at censorship and/or elitism, shame on you.

My Opinion,
Mike

[Scuba]

Scuba Diver here,

Cyberdiver. Underwaterdiver.

Attaching negative connotations to cyber divers is your prerogative.

I suppose some do the same for underwater divers.

[MikeFerrara]

This is a chat site. People chat here. You can post here without even being a diver. You should take anything you read here with a grain of salt. If you hear something that sounds good, fine, but don't consider it validated.

I hade a prospective Advanced Nitrox student lecture me on the correct way to do valve shutdowns based on something he read on a chat site. This guy was going on what he read and zere training or experience in such thing. He may have passed these views on to you here.

IMO, it's ok for even new divers to pass on what they learn or just talk about it but others need to consider the source.

Is this thread turning into another dir/non-dir thread?

[JimC]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
Talking with some folks from a different dive shop today I heard a NEW term... CYBERDIVER. Evidentally, this is what we now call folks who have little dive experience but all kinds of posts on the board and talking smack on the board. If you are a cyberdiver does this make you a knowledgeable enough diver to coax new divers and give them advice????


Would an expert on an inner ear infection's opinion be less valid if they had zero logged dives? It dousn't take single loged dive to show someone how to calculate there SAC rate, just some simple math.

There are many things involved with diveing that have abosultly no connection to number of loged dives. While experince is helpfull, even requiered to understand and advise others on some topics (say gear choice or something like trim) there are not 100% of diveing.

[landlocked]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
I personally don't think so. You really need to get out in the REAL world and get some diving under your belt with all kinds of gear and all kinds of places before you should talk smack about diving.
I am..... a cyberdiver. ;-0 and.... and.... I fully agree with Cincy!

Caught myself proselyting a long hose configuration to my Nitrox and OW instructors like I knew what I was talking about. After I thought about it I felt really embarrassed. I hope this confession will help me to go straight from now on. I never really set out to be a cyberdiver. I just wanted to fit in socially. (Are there heridtary tendancies?) :confused:
P.S. (For UP's benefit that would be an adivistic proclivity.) ;)

[WreckWriter]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Is this thread turning into another dir/non-dir thread?

Don't most?

[CincyBengalsFan]

I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SET THE SPEED RECORD FOR MOST POSTS IN A THREAD..??

[Scuba]

I can just imagine the thread of the century:

Cyber-divers vs. DIR-divers

All I can say is that if I was DIR I would'nt want to take on the Cyberdivers in Cyber-space.

By the same token, if I was a Cyberdiver I would'nt want to take on DIR in Water-space.

I'm confused now, :confused: what I'm I?

A simple diver.

Is this theoretically possible? :confused:

[jonnythan]

Scuba once bubbled...
I can just imagine the thread of the century:

Cyber-divers vs. DIR-divers

All I can say is that if I was DIR I would'nt want to take on the Cyberdivers in Cyber-space.

By the same token, if I was a Cyberdiver I would'nt want to take on DIR in Water-space.


What if you're both? ;)

[Scuba]

What if you're both?

You're allowed to switch sides, which entitle you to "winners bragging rights". Not that anyone is going to concede defeat. :)

[CincyBengalsFan]

Now, you guys really have me rolling out of my chair laughing.

[metridium]

Cyber-Diver, eh? So tell us, Cincy, how many dives does one have before he/she becomes a real diver? In how many environments? In how many gear configurations?

Since you're the dictionary man in this thread, Cincy (or BMS, or whatever you decide to call yourself next week), maybe you can help us with a few more definitions? Would ya like that?

Example 1: A dive professional bleats about the injustice of being reprimanded for throwing rocks into a dive site actively being used for training. Would he be a....

Cyber-Whiner?


Example 2: A diver posts that his LDS gets all his business and also slams a certain online retailer without bothering to include any facts. What he fails to mention in his post is that he is actually the owner of his local dive shop and that the online retailer is one of his archrivals. But not to worry; this poses no ethical dilemma for our hero! What's the term for that? How about a...

Cyber-Liar?

The above examples are purely hypothetical, you understand. Any resemblance to an actual poster is purely coincidental.

Hmmm......let's see: Cyber-Diver, Cyber-Whiner, Cyber-Liar. Which one would I rather dive with?

Think I'll go with the Cyber-Diver. He may be full of zealous BS, but at least that's not necessarily a sign of questionable judgment.

[CincyBengalsFan]

Metriuasdfnmmfkasdium,

Take a pill and relax before you have a heart attack. YES, I own a LDS and I have made that clear in MANY other posts. NO it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why I am slamming online retailers...LOL!!! Rock throwing....You live in the past....I do my rock throwing in the river now.. LOL very much LOL!!!

I still think this thread may set some kind of speed record.

By the way metridasdop78fidp9sf8usaium, all this is humoring me more and more. At least you didn't throw DIR into it. See what else you can dig up and get back to us.

Stroke, cyberliar, cyberwhiner, who knows what tomorrow. LOL

[metridium]

Oh, so you're saying the divers in the examples I cited are actually you? :confused:


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
Take a pill and relax before you have a heart attack. YES, I own a LDS and I have made that clear in MANY other posts.
Not in that thread, and this latest alias you're using is quite new. Intentionally misleading, or just bumbling?


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
NO it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why I am slamming online retailers...LOL!!!
So have you really had a problem buying from Leisure Pro, or is that just another flight of fantasy? Or possibly an act of libel?


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
Rock throwing....You live in the past....I do my rock throwing in the river now.. LOL very much LOL!!!
Oh, do they do OW training in your local rivers now?

:jester:


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
At least you didn't throw DIR into it. See what else you can dig up and get back to us.

Stroke, cyberliar, cyberwhiner, who knows what tomorrow. LOL Whatever it is, it'll be something equally questionable you've done, no doubt.

As for the DIR and stroke comments, you really do have a paranoid fantasy about that, don't ya? Who was the last to call you a stroke, in what thread, and when? I certainly haven't seen anything of the kind here.

I can think of more appropriate terms, however.

[CincyBengalsFan]

Again, I'm worried you are about to have a stroke. Calm down.

Alias huh, major difference from bengalsmgtsucks to cincybengalsfan. If you can't figure that one out then you need to go get your eyes examined today, along with some heart medicine. I have had a problem ordering from leisure pro. I tried to order a flashlight bulb from them. They charged me 9 smackers for shipping then it didn't show up so I had to get a credit which was a pain in the butt. I have NO idea why I'm explaining this to a potential heart attack victim. #2 Einstein..I do commercial work in the Kentucky River all the time. So I throw my rocks there. WOW...The light bulb lighting up over that head of yours now. As for what you want to call me. Save your breath. I can take about anything and laugh it off. Take Care and happy safe diving.

Lets all go back to post #1 and keep our eye on the ball. It's about CyberDivers..Not me or DIR or Menriadfs8u7a0dsf8ium.

[metridium]

CincyBengalsFan wrote...
Lets all go back to post #1 and keep our eye on the ball. It's about CyberDivers..Not me or DIR or Menriadfs8u7a0dsf8ium.
So try answering my first few questions.....

[jonnythan]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
As for what you want to call me. Save your breath. I can take about anything and laugh it off.

Except stroke, right?

[raviepoo]

Man, I hate the way threads on this board have a habit of deteriorating into sarcastic name calling.

[hitomi316]

this thread has turned out to be rather funny at moments but, we should all Play nice".
we originally had a difference in OPINION, WE CAN KEEP IT THAT WAY W/O GETTIN' NASTY...;)

[DivePartner1]

One of the nice features of this board is the forum it provides for divers to share information and construtive dialogues with like-minded divers.

Another is the feature that allows one to suppress perenially unhelpful or odious posters. Simply check on their profile and suggest "ingore."

[CincyBengalsFan]

SCUBA had us rolling last night with cyber-divers vs. DIR-Divers. I rolled out of my chair. So did others around the computer. I like the laughs we get out of it but the name calling will cease. Of course it's my opinion that Cyber-Diver is more of a catagory like stroke or newbie.:boom:

[TCDiver1]

Unless of course it's your favorite wine or single malt scotch label!
:tease:

[CincyBengalsFan]

Speaking of, I got 3 nice ones in today with some nice cigars.

[TCDiver1]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
Speaking of, I got 3 nice ones in today with some nice cigars.

Monte Cristo #2 torpedo ...... a sweet label i would agree!

[large_diver]

I agree we need to be civil around here, but sometimes people need to be called on the carpet for things they say (or don't say as the case may be).......

Regarding the whole "cyber-diver" rant -- lots of newbies are accused of spending more time posting than diving. I'm a good example of that. However, IMHO, in many ways newbies have MORE to offer other newbies than someone who has "done and seen it all". For example, a newbie that has just gone through the gear selection process, while not an expert, can add valuable perspective to the process.

My $0.02.

P.S. Having lived in Cincinnati for 5 years, I can vouch for the fact that Bengals' management DOES suck..... ;-)

[CincyBengalsFan]

Thankyou large for a very informative and civil view. I really do appreciate it. There have been several on this thread that have been civil that were appreciated. In fact. Most all are civil.

no Monte Cristo but some H. UPMANN coronas major & of course Romeo Y Julieta Romeo #2. Have not had either but will enjoy one tonight gedunk. If you were here I would share.

Also, Large...Thanks for understanding my Cincybengals views. MAYBE this will be the break out year. At least that is what I'll be hoping this Sunday as I watch the Chargers @ Cincy. I was hoping to see Doug Flutie play but I guess that won't happen.

[Scuba]

Be grateful for what you have. :)


P.S. Having lived in Cincinnati for 5 years, I can vouch for the fact that Bengals' management DOES suck..... ;-)

You know what really sucks. The Los Angeles ummm, ummm, yea thats right. Does'nt anybody like us anymore?

First the Rams leave us.

Then we raid Oakland and steal their Raiders, only to find out it was all a fix to steal our money. I guess thats what we deserved. At least they won a superbowl while plucking us here.

Hey, who needs football, we don't need no stinkin football.

We have the three times, yes count em, 1,2, and 3 consecutive times, and counting, World Champion Lakers.

Now, thats good management for you!

Maybe your Bengals can come and tour Laker's headquaters for some tips. Never mind. It could be contagious. :jester:[I][

[large_diver]

Have hope -- remember, the Bengals beat the Patriots last year....

[CincyBengalsFan]

Uhh.. Matter of fact, I think it is contagious. But you guys have an expansion team on the way for 2004 I do believe. I think there may be 2 expansion teams in a few years.

Los Angelos huh? I have a friend that lives over in Palm Dessert that free dives as often as he can out near L.A. Maybe I can get him into diving through a shop you can recomend out there?

[TCDiver1]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...

Romeo Y Julieta Romeo #2.

Wish i was there, i would take you up on that. Hey wait a minute aren't you a LDS owner? How can you afford this cigar?

:D

[CincyBengalsFan]

LOL. your right. I had them picked up in Tahiti. Tip #1. Buy your cubans from anywhere but the Caribbean. They are 4 X's the price and they might not be REAL.

[Scuba]

CincyBengalFan,

Good idea to get your friend to spend more time underwater.

No specific shop I recommned. I patronise several.

Lots of shops out here spread out over the region. Then again L.A. is a city without a center. Lots of good shops too.

[pt40fathoms]

If it's Cubans you want, just take a trip up here to the Great White North (Canada). Fair prices, and your dollar is worth a whole lot more. Just remember to hide them well, the US customs agents know ALL the usual hiding places.

By the way, hows the flying lessons going?

[metridium]

metridium wrote...
Cyber-Diver, eh? So tell us, Cincy, how many dives does one have before he/she becomes a real diver? In how many environments? In how many gear configurations?

So, Cincy, are you going to tell us the answers or not?

[CincyBengalsFan]

I thought I had answered all your Questions. What now? This is about Cyberdivers ONLY. If your questions do not pertain to that then please give it up or send me a private message and I will try to answer them for you.

Canada does have GREAT prices but I have always feared of getting a "replica". It's probably safe though. And they do know ALL the hiding places.

Haven't flown in a while. Hoping to get back to it the end of the month.

[metridium]

CincyBengalsFan wrote...
I thought I had answered all your Questions. What now? This is about Cyberdivers ONLY.
:confused:

Uh, try reading that post again...slowly this time. It's all about how "cyber-divers" and how you define them.

:rolleyes:

[CincyBengalsFan]

;-0

I read it a little slower this time at your request.

Are you just wanting numbers? I will give you numbers then.

Dives...100
Enviroments. 2-3
Equipment configs....2-3
Cyberwhiner....Why Yes
CyberLiar....NO Burden of Proof brother.. It's on YOU!!

Love you mean it (LYMI):jester: :out:

[metridium]

CincyBengalsFan wrote...

Are you just wanting numbers? I will give you numbers then.

Dives...100
Enviroments. 2-3
Equipment configs....2-3
Thanks for the serious reply...and the very interesting numbers.

I honestly find it interesting that you set the number of dives at 100 when some certification agencies bestow DM and possibly even instructor status at roughly half that level, if I'm not mistaken. That's a very interesting statement about your view of their capabilities at that level that you seem to be making there.

Do you train any DM or Instructor candidates? Which agency are you affiliated with?


CincyBengalsFan wrote...

Cyberwhiner....Why Yes
CyberLiar....NO Burden of Proof brother.. It's on YOU!!

Thought you only wanted to discuss cyber-divers?

[CincyBengalsFan]

Glad you found it interesting. When I became an instructor it was a minimum of 100 dives back then. I do believe they have lowered that number now. Divemaster was 60 dives back in the day.

LYMI;-0

[metridium]

So do you set your pre-requisite standards at 100 dives for prospective DMs? Or instructors, if you train those?

[CincyBengalsFan]

You seem knowledgable in these matters. Standards say that Instructor Candidate must have 100 dives in several types of enviroments such as salt and freshwater, plus some specialty diving like deep and night, etc. DiveMasters & A.I.'s are similar with the exception of the 100 dives. They are 50-60 dives. I have never taken on a DiveMaster Candidate that didn't meet the instructor prereqs.. So, I don't know if I would turn one down if it was to happen.

LYMI;-0

[metridium]

CincyBengalsFan wrote...
You seem knowledgable in these matters.
Not at all. That's why I'm asking questions.


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
Standards say that Instructor Candidate must have 100 dives in several types of enviroments such as salt and freshwater, plus some specialty diving like deep and night, etc.
Sounds reasonable to me. Are there any agencies with lower number of dive requirements for instructor candidates?


CincyBengalsFan wrote...
DiveMasters & A.I.'s are similar with the exception of the 100 dives. They are 50-60 dives. I have never taken on a DiveMaster Candidate that didn't meet the instructor prereqs..
LYMI;-0
I'm glad to see you walk the walk, then....and I mean that sincerely.

[CincyBengalsFan]

I think NAUI may have lowered theres but I will have to get back to you on that. I know PADI, YMCA & CMAS require 100 for instructor. What I do know about NAUI off hand is they do require several varieties of diving.

[NetDoc]

for how many dives that are needed, they do not equivicate in other areas. Anyone who would try and "squeak" through a NAUI ITC with less than a 150-200 dives is in for a rough one. Experience is needed in order to dive correctly.

[CincyBengalsFan]

YOU SAID IT THERE NETDOC.

[JDostal]

My posts just about double my dives. 120 some posts, almost 60 dives. But, considering I've been certified for not quite three months yet...I think I am able to say I have some good dive experience built up. I usually dive once during the week (going tonight) and at least once during the weekend.

Also, I'm a computer geek by trade and by choice. Hell, I'm on one of these things 12 hours a day in between home ane work. So, I browse around and chat a lot. I don't consider myself a cyber diver...as far as time spent, I dive a lot more than I do this. On top of this, I find time for paintball evey weekend, wilderness hiking trips, archery, shooting, and time with friends and girlfriend. And talking a lot in the paintball forums, tech forums and other things as well.

I just have a lot of hobbies, and enjoy talking about them.

[landlocked]

I'm not just a Cyber Diver. I'm an all around Cyber Guy. Like Simone, the movie, I don't exist outside of the Internet. All of my dives were done in sims, etc. (So, don't mess with me, I know your credit card number.) Maybe I should change my name to Tron. It really isn't all that bad being a cyber guy, other than the food that is. Cyber food is really bland. :jester:

[TCDiver1]

Omicron once bubbled...
My posts just about double my dives. 120 some posts, almost 60 dives. But, considering I've been certified for not quite three months yet...


Not bad! And in sunny Wisconsin no less! Wish all newer divers dived as much as you. Keep it up!

[CincyBengalsFan]

60 dives in 3 months is incredible. That is good experience. I wish I had the time to take on the hobbies you have omicron. I barely have time to sleep anymore. There are more and more dive shops in the nation taking on paint ball products as part of the business. Has that happened up in Wisconsin yet?

[JDostal]

Sunny Wisconsin...haha. I'm not looking forward to winter. Once again I have picked up a sport/hobby that is seriously impacted by all the frickin' snow we get around here.

I will be diving in the winter - all signed up for the ice diving class...but...brrr. It's gonna get cold. And I already dive in water around 40 degrees fahrenheit...but my SI is gonna be a killer in the winter.

I'm trying to get our dive shop into the paintball thing too - right now they are the only place around here where you can get your high pressure air tanks filled up so they are already known amont the paintballers around here. I would love to help them out - plus, it would allow me to buy paintball guns on the cheap through the retailers license =)

I just really took to diving...of all the things I have done, I have never been so enthralled as with diving...there is something about just being underwater, whether it's following panfish along a lakebed or swimming through a shipwreck, there is nothing quite like it...I can never get enough. I'll do as many dives in a day as I can safely fit in, and will be right back at the lake the next day =)

Now, one of these days, I've got to make it to some east coast wrecks or down to florida for some intro to cavern classes =)

And I wish other new divers would dive more too...it would certainly help out the sport. I tried getting the guys from my OW class to take AOW w/ me, as well as dive with me but they never seem to have the interest. It seems like a lot of divers are taking the class just so they can do diving during a caribbean vacation, and none of them really are bitten by the heavy addiction that some of us seem to get...kind of a shame. There are so many neat things to explore in your own backyard.

[CincyBengalsFan]

I'm looking into an ice diving class in upstate NY. Can you forward me some info. on your class in Wisconsin?

[JDostal]

I'll be taking the class through my PADI LDS - unfortunately there are not many options for tech divers in my area - Diversions Scuba in Madison, WI does TDI though.

Anyway, here is a link to my LDS's web site class info:

http://www.divepointscuba.com/Scuba/Class/Default.asp?CLASS=Ice

It's pretty much verbatim text from PADI's web site =)

[jonnythan]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
I'm looking into an ice diving class in upstate NY. Can you forward me some info. on your class in Wisconsin?

This thread is about Cyberdivers ONLY!

[CincyBengalsFan]

This will be a usefull link. Thanks again. We should start to move the posts over to icediving...