Microbubbles (RGBM) & Uwatec Computers

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Romantic

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Messages
31
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Location
East TN
# of dives
50 - 99
I am a fairly new diver and I have some questions about microbubble suppression and the Uwatec SmartCom & SmartZ dive computers. My daughters and I have been diving Sherwood Wisdom’s for the last two years. I am considering new computers with RGBM algorithms.

From the articles I have read on microbubble suppression, I thought the primary factor to avoid microbubble buildup was the implementation of additional deep safety stops (i.e. a 1 min stop at 50% of your max depth). If this is correct then the only reduction in bottom time would be the time required for the level stops. However in reading the Uwatec manual for the SmartZ (http://us.uwatec.com/manuals/smartz/smart_z_eng.pdf) it looks like setting a microbubble suppression lever would seriously reduce the no-stop time. I am confused by the manuals example on page 28. It seems to me that when the L0 example is displaying a no-stop time of 10 minutes that the L5 should have a no-stop time of 9 minutes (10 minutes – 1 minute for the 20’ stop). What am I missing here?

Does anyone have a better recommendation for a computer with RGBM?
 
First, you've got the wrong manual for the Smart-Com. :cool:

Here's the link: http://us.uwatec.com/manuals/smartpro_com/eg-smart.pdf

Second, the graph shows a comparison between several different dive profiles, diving with MB Level 0 (least conservative) and MB Level 5 (most conservative), not the data for all 6 settings.

The length of the dives (L0 and L5) are very close, however, the various MB Level settings add on progressivly more and longer stops, to get you to the surface with a few bubbles as possible, and appear to add an extra 5% - 15% or so on to your dive time for stops at minutes at various depths (the don't indicate the ABT on the graph, so it's hard to say).

Level 5 implements a stop at about half your maximum depth, which is now being recommended by DAN (I beleive).

It's a very nice computer, and ranges from moderate to extremely conservative, depending on the settings. I've been diving one for years and it's always been flawless, and always had an appropriate and safe ascent plan.

Instead of switching to a different computer to get more bottom time, I'd suggest diving how you want, and folowing the SmartCom's recommended ascent profile. If does forward-looking gas calculations, will always leave you with enough air to get back to the surface including a reserve, and makes a really embarassing racket if you're doing something you shouldn't be.

Terry







Romantic:
I am a fairly new diver and I have some questions about microbubble suppression and the Uwatec SmartCom & SmartZ dive computers. My daughters and I have been diving Sherwood Wisdom’s for the last two years. I am considering new computers with RGBM algorithms.

From the articles I have read on microbubble suppression, I thought the primary factor to avoid microbubble buildup was the implementation of additional deep safety stops (i.e. a 1 min stop at 50% of your max depth). If this is correct then the only reduction in bottom time would be the time required for the level stops. However in reading the Uwatec manual for the SmartZ (http://us.uwatec.com/manuals/smartz/smart_z_eng.pdf) it looks like setting a microbubble suppression lever would seriously reduce the no-stop time. I am confused by the manuals example on page 28. It seems to me that when the L0 example is displaying a no-stop time of 10 minutes that the L5 should have a no-stop time of 9 minutes (10 minutes – 1 minute for the 20’ stop). What am I missing here?

Does anyone have a better recommendation for a computer with RGBM?
 
My first sentence states I am considering both the SmartCom and SmartZ. I just happened to give the link to the SmartZ manual. However you will find the same graphic on page 22 of the SmartCom manual, and I still have the same question. It looks like the computer is telling me I have zero no-stop time very early in the dive (the first segment in the display). Then it looks like it is only showing the level-stop info and no longer telling me my no-stop time. It looks like the computer is telling an L5 diver to begin an ascent during the first segment since the no-stop time is zero for L5 while a L0 diver still has 20 minutes remaining.

My reason for considering a new computer is not to increase my bottom time; (since the Wisdom I am using is already considered to be a liberal computer) it is to increase the safety margin for myself and my teenage daughters, by incorporating the calculation of the deep stops. Yes, I am already doing the stops without my computer telling me to, but since I am a computer programmer, and a self proclaimed techie I want my computer to make the calculations for me :)
 
Yes, I am already doing the stops without my computer telling me to, but since I am a computer programmer, and a self proclaimed techie I want my computer to make the calculations for me :)

O.....K.....

But even the best programmer recognises that "common sense" is incredibly hard to put in an algorithm. The best the computer can ever do is give you a suggestion that you still run through your own "common sense" filter before you do it.....

I'm not against computers but I do think we should be realistic about what they can and cannot do.

R..
 
Romantic:
My reason for considering a new computer is not to increase my bottom time; (since the Wisdom I am using is already considered to be a liberal computer) it is to increase the safety margin for myself and my teenage daughters, by incorporating the calculation of the deep stops. Yes, I am already doing the stops without my computer telling me to, but since I am a computer programmer, and a self proclaimed techie I want my computer to make the calculations for me :)

Ok,

You're a techie, a computer programmer, and you want deep stops...

I suggest a VR3 or HS Explorer. Or one of each.

Best of luck.
 
Romantic:
question. It looks like the computer is telling me I have zero no-stop time very early in the dive (the first segment in the display). Then it looks like it is only showing the level-stop info and no longer telling me my no-stop time.

Because you have set it for Level 5, it will no longer display no-stop time once you have exceeded the nitrogen absoption specified for level 5. Note that these are just Level Stops, not Deco Stops and are optional. They're there because you told it you wanted them

You can happily blow one or all and the computer will automatically switch to the next less-conservative setting and recalculate your stops for the new MB supression level.

If you exceed the real NDL, it will show a Deco stop, and if you blow that, will lock you out for 24 hours.

The computer doesn't change the laws of physics, it only gives you information on how to dive to reduce bubble formation.

Terry
 
if your planning to do Tech diving... V3 is the way to go for Deep Stops and Multiple Gases.

if your a Nitrox diver and not planning to do tech and you want Deep Stop.

Suunto Vytec DS is what i would recommend.

SuuntoVytecDS.jpg


IMG_0443.jpg


The best thing about my Suunto Vytec Deep Stop version is that I can do Simulation Dives not just Dive Plans.

But actual Simulation which is way cool!

If you want to extend your dive time, consider taking an Enrich Air Course. If that is not enough for you.
You can consider Deep.
 
I don't know any technical agency that will advocate a wireless computer. I'm not saying there AREN'T any... I've just never heard of one. And paying that much money for a computer with a wireless transmitter when you can't use it seems silly. Might as well get a bottom timer and use custom tables. That's the route I am headed, and the route every technical diver I've talked to goes. Unless they are on a rebreather.
 
And paying that much money for a computer with a wireless transmitter when you can't use it seems silly

How much do you think I paid for my Suunto? You might be surprised. I use my transmitter all the time doing regular and nitrox dives. But I also carry a SPG as backup redundancy.

If your planning to do Tech Diving then the VR3 is for you! Awesome dive computer from what I was told. But the cost oh la la!
 
PerroneFord:
I don't know any technical agency that will advocate a wireless computer. I'm not saying there AREN'T any... I've just never heard of one. And paying that much money for a computer with a wireless transmitter when you can't use it seems silly. Might as well get a bottom timer and use custom tables. That's the route I am headed, and the route every technical diver I've talked to goes. Unless they are on a rebreather.

"... when you can't use it seems silly. ..."

There was a time when Ean was not advocated by any agency. Now, almost all accept and certify for Enriched gas.

Additionally, this thread is NOT about technical diving. It is a question about a particular dive computer.
 

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