Hose Length...

[dlarbale]

All,

Just a quick question for those of you that dive independant twins....

How long are your primary and secondary reg hoses? I spoke to a guy whose just done his CDAA ticket and he said that 4 foot hoses on both regs is amble. What OOA experiences has anyone had that this would have caused problems (if any)?

Thanks in advance - Dave.

[Rick Murchison]

The key is to be able to go single file - and 7' is what's comfy for that. Or are you talking a rig where you can hand a tank off?
Rick

[maddiver]

Rick is right. 7 is the correct length. 9 is too long and anything shorter is too short for single file through restrictions and/or sharing while scootering/towing etc. Independent doubles are a poor choice in set ups and you are starting to run into the reasons why....are you going to use two 7 ft hoses or get yourself a manifold?


Rick Murchison once bubbled...
The key is to be able to go single file - and 7' is what's comfy for that. Or are you talking a rig where you can hand a tank off?
Rick

[trheeltek]

If you're sidemounting, where you can hand the tank off to someone, you just need a regular hose. Otherwise, Rick and Maddiver pretty much covered it - get a manifold and a 7' hose if you're backmounting doubles.

[DocRCH]

For the primary 7' is good if you have a backplate and doubles. for the secondary 22" is good. Hope this helps

Robert:doctor:

[jetblast00]

DocRCH once bubbled...
For the primary 7' is good if you have a backplate and doubles. for the secondary 22" is good. Hope this helps

Robert:doctor:

iso manifolded doubles:
7' primary is what you should use if you are ever in or might go into an overhead environment for the single file reasons already stated.

22" is an often used backup hose length. you will probably find this adaquite if you have a reg with a butt lp port like the scubapro or atomic, although my regs don't have this and I find the 24" hose more comfortable for a reg bungeed around my neck.

[DocRCH]

You are right about the isolation manifold! I think that I had to special order a 22" hose for the left post. I do recommend using a bungee or surgical tubing to hold the secondary reg around your neck. I do believe that the original post was for independent dbls., I would highly advise against that rig.

Robert:doctor:

[dlarbale]

All,

Thanks for the feedback so far. I personally agree about 7ft hose length but the guy I spoke to that had completed his CDAA ticket said that 4ft was amble - it comes to your knees and you should be up close enough for a single file exit.

Not too sure how this works though as surely a frog/flutter kick would be right in your face. If scottering this shorter length hose might be ok(?) as you hold onto the rear D-ring(?).

I'm pretty much sold on the Manifold setup (I've been through all of this before) but I like to know all the reasons why - especially now another diver is looking to me for advise about cave gear configuration (I've not even been in a cave with doubles yet so all theory at the moment!).

From what I've seen with the independant doubles set up the guys run 4ft hoses on both regs and just pass off the one they're breathing. The regs they use are Oceanic Omega's (any views on these regs?) with a swivel and they run them under the arm and into the mouth or clipped off at the shoulder. Pretty sure they run stage cylinders clipped off at the shoulder and the waist d-ring and can't envisage how this wouldn't interfere with passing off the left hand reg in an OOA situation.

One further question - when running manifold and hog with 2 stage cylinders (one left & one right side) how is the primary (long) hose routed to avoid problems handing it off in OOA??

Thanks - Dave.

[D.I.R.Lizard]

It is no problem, handing off the long hose with 2 stages, because both stages should be on the left, not one on each side.

When using the proper rig it is absolutely no problem at all having both on your left side.

Clip both off at the left chest d-ring and the waist d-ring. With the one you will use first on the outside, when you are done with it, unclip it float it in front of you, deploy your second one. Stow the hose on the first, turn it off and clip the top clip to the waist d-ring, or clip it to the line to be picked up on exit.(cave). It will float right in your slip stream and you will hardly know it is there.

Hope this helps.

[jonscubas]

What is the proper way to route the hose. I'm right handed, so do I have the hose come out the LP port of my 1st stage, under my right arm pit, or over my right shoulder?

Then do I hook under my left armpit or over my left shoulder before coming around the back of my head, over my right shoulder and the reg in my mouth?

[dlarbale]

Jonscuba,

See the picture on this web page - http://www.halcyon.net/mc/harness.shtml

The reg comes from the right hand side, under the right arm, around canister light (or tucked into waist belt), across chest, over left shoulder, round head and into mouth.

Hope this helps. Also check out the following:

http://www.wkpp.org/equipment.htm
http://www.gasdiving.co.uk/pages/misc/kit.htm

Later - Dave.

[thethumper]

Dave....That looks right.....

But some have longer hoses than ohters. :angel:

[dlarbale]

Jonscuba,

For single cylinder, 7ft hose is maybe too long. Obviously open to debate but 5ft is DIR (?). I use 7ft on both single and double and it doesn't seem to get in the way.

Later - Dave.

[xoomboy]

Okay, here's a total newbie observation. Now, I'm sure that a lot of thought and experimentation has gone into the decision for this particular DIR 7ft primary routing path. It seems that it is the recommended method, and I can absolutely see how it is beneficial and efficient.

But, from a mental-wellbeing standpoint, don't you guys ever worry about having that tube wrapped around your neck? Does it not bother you?

I guess having it secured, instead of having it out in the open where it can get snagged, probably helps more to keep a level head, yes?

Cheers,

Matt

[roakey]

xoomboy once bubbled...
But, from a mental-wellbeing standpoint, don't you guys ever worry about having that tube wrapped around your neck? Does it not bother you?
This is a terminology battle that I've been fighting for some time. Almost all descriptions of the hose say it "goes around the neck" or it's "wrapped around the neck."

This is incorrect. It comes across the chest to the left shoulder and then passes behind the head/neck and into the mouth. In fact about the only place it actually touches the neck is on the left above/behind the shoulder. It certainly doesn't come anywhere near the front of your neck, so any images strangulation should be laid to rest.

See http://www.underctek.com/open/DIRF/dir1.jpg for a picture.

Roak

[xoomboy]

Hi Roakey,

Thanks for the clarification. You're definitely right. It doesn't seem like the tube would pose a strangulation hazard at all.

I'm completely intrigued by the equipment configuration that DIR divers seem to adhere to. While it sounds like everyone has their own personal features that they incorporate into the design depending on the type of diving that they do, I think it's because of the overall flexibility and simplistic design of the system.

To put it in a geeky web developer's sense, it's "scalable" :)

I'm surprised more people haven't adopted a configuration like this for open water diving, actually. You're more streamlined, less-encumbered, and you have a wider range of motion in many areas of your body because there aren't as many restrictions.

Question: Is it too much of a newbie thing to consider a gear this setup from the start? I would think that it is a safer way to dive in general...

Cheers,

Matt

[Genesis]

I made the changeover at about 30 logged dives, and one of the reasons I didn't do it sooner is that I knew I was going to do AOW on a dive boat where I KNEW IN ADVANCE they were hostile to it.

Having now logged a few with this config, I like it a lot. Its simpler, you don't have hoses flying all over, the risk of getting hung up on something is a LOT lower, and you can HEAR anything that is leaking, since the hoses are all near your ears. I also like the fact that I can look at my gauge and computer without having to unclip it, which was flatly impossible on my other BC.

[JamesK]

Matt,

There is nothing really scalable about a DIR gear configuration. It is how it is. Now, you can go with a similar configuration, and change things you do not like, but that will not be DIR. IF you are still breathing the regulator from the long hose, it is considered Hogarthian, but that is another story all together.

As far as a newb using this type of configuration, I am all for it. Some instructors even teach open water in it.

[xoomboy]

Ah yes, of course. That makes perfect sense, also. DIR is what it is for a reason -- a GOOD and LOGICAL reason, I've found, from the research I've been doing.

You're right: Change the configuration, and you're not adhering to the standards anymore.

I've just started reading up on the Hogarthian system. Will absolutely be doing a lot more before posting more questions. I need to keep from getting burned while jumping through those flaming hoops!

Matt

[JamesK]

Read all you can, but do not stop not knowing something from posting a question. Heck, that is how you are going to get an answer.

[WreckWriter]

D.I.R.Lizard once bubbled...
when you are done with it, unclip it float it in front of you, deploy your second one. Stow the hose on the first, turn it off and clip the top clip to the waist d-ring

Reading and visualising your procedure here and I like it. I've never seen anyone do it this way. People here do it one of two ways: either leave both clipped the whole time and simply struggle to stow the reg on the 50% bottle or unclip the upper clip of the 50%, stow the reg and drop the bottle with the lower (waist) clip still attached.

On my next dive I plan to try your method.

Thanks!

Tom

[dkerr]

roakey once bubbled...


See http://www.underctek.com/open/DIRF/dir1.jpg for a picture.

Roak

Quick question on this link. It looks like his primary is bolt snapped to his back up reg. Maybe I am looking at it wrong but wouldn't this be a bad idea for rapid deployment?
Thanks

[JamesK]

dkerr once bubbled...


Quick question on this link. It looks like his primary is bolt snapped to his back up reg. Maybe I am looking at it wrong but wouldn't this be a bad idea for rapid deployment?
Thanks

Optical Illusion. The bolt snap is simply hanging in front of the backup regs hose.

[xoomboy]

I noticed that too.

Was just about to ask that same question.

Why even bother snapping it? The bungee is holding it on, and if the bungee breaks, wouldn't the entire snap come off anyway?

Matt

[JamesK]

xoomboy once bubbled...
Why even bother snapping it? The bungee is holding it on, and if the bungee breaks, wouldn't the entire snap come off anyway?


The bolt snap is attached to the primary regulator on the long hose. The bungee is attached to your backup regulator. The bolt snap is there so if you are stage diving, you can clip the regulaotr off to your chest dring when you are breathing a stage, so you can clip it off when you are breathing from your buddy's long hose, or so you can clip it off on the surface.

[xoomboy]

So, in this particular picture, the bolt snap is actually hanging from the primary reg, not actually attached to the bungie cord. The other end is not attached to the backup reg, it's free and waiting to be clipped to the D-ring.

Okay, I'm seeing it now.

Talk about illusions. Someone should re-take that picture.

Matt

[roakey]

xoomboy once bubbled...
To put it in a geeky web developer's sense, it's "scalable" :)
Scalable? Yes and no (I’m going to address only equipment issues here).

The equipment is quite scaleable. The backbone of the system is the BP and wing, so to start all you need is to replace your existing BC and you’re good to go. You can add the long hose, the short SPG hose and other stuff later.

To be so-called “DIR” there’s a minimum configuration that’s required. So though scaleable up, DIR is not scaleable down beyond a certain point. With the minimum configuration, as you add equipment nothing changes or moves. Let’s say you have a single cylinder DIR rig and you go to doubles. Your “interface” doesn’t change. You still have your regs, SPG and inflator hose and wing in the same places and they work the same. The only difference is you’ve got a bit more inertia to get used to and some knobs you need to learn to manipulate.

Adding a canister light? Put it on, nothing else moves or changes. Stages? They clip onto existing D rings and nothing else moves or changes. Scooter? Snap it to the existing D ring and you’re good to go.

With recreational gear how many times have you decided to carry a small light, but to put it in the pocket you had to move your whistle to another pocket or take something out completely and leave it on the boat. Addition of equipment to recreational gear almost always results in reconfiguration or rearranging of existing equipment. That is until you’ve been diving for a couple of years and get a lot of experience, and then you’ll learn how to stow things so you add and delete stuff without disrupting your system. Why wait for those years of experience, when the DIR system has been developed to show you how and where to stow everything so you don’t have to learn from the school of hard knocks, you can just DIVE and have fun?

The guys behind DIR didn’t invent anything new, they just took existing configurations from Main, Turner and Exley for example, refined it, experimented with it and came up with the “best of the best” and, best of all, are willing to share their experience with anyone who’s interested!

xoomboy once bubbled...
Question: Is it too much of a newbie thing to consider a gear this setup from the start? I would think that it is a safer way to dive in general...
I’m going to patent the following quote some day :):

So called “technical” divers do things differently from recreational divers not because they want to be different, but because they have a safer and easier way of diving.

If it’s safer and easier, you’d WANT to start out that way, wouldn’t you? Why make things hard on a beginner?

[added on edit] In no way am I saying that a beginner should start out with doubles, stages and a canister light. But they should start out with the interface that technical divers have.

Roak

[JamesK]

Roakey,

Excellent explanation. I guess I did not think of it being scalable in the way you did. I simply thought about things like, "Well, I want to be DIR but I want a buttmounted canister." KWIM?

[roakey]

JamesK once bubbled...
I guess I did not think of it being scalable in the way you did. I simply thought about things like, "Well, I want to be DIR but I want a buttmounted canister." KWIM?
"Scalable" is too slippery a word; we're both right :)

Ok, I'll say "Uncle." What's KWIM mean?

Roak

[xoomboy]

In defense of myself, when I stated that the system was "scalable", I was absolutely referring to what Roakey just explained. You have a base configuration, but it's extensible enough to work with the goals of your dive.

KWIM = Know What I Mean?

Matt

[JamesK]

Know What I Mean?

[roakey]

Obvious, but I don't think I've ever seen that one before!

[xoomboy]

How about "YMMV"? I can't seem to get that one...

[roakey]

Your mileage may vary.