Recent Incident - What did I do wrong?

[Glitchrf]

Recently, yesturday, I went on one of my first dives down to 40ft in search of a lost object. When I started to come up I could tell something was going to be wrong, a little disoriented. When I reached the surface to turn to face the boat everything was spinning fast, really dizzy stuff. I swam to the boat and got out to find my dad telling me that my nose was bleeding (first time in my life) and to find out by asking that my right ear was bleeding a little bit. Took awhile for the dizzyness to go away, 15-30 mins. What did I do wrong? How can I prevent this in the future so it doesn't happen again? Should I be worried about any ear problems?

The only thing I can think about that I did wrong was maybe not equalize enough or may have descended to fast, I felt perfectly fine at the bottom. I came up slow enough letting the bubbles beat me. I was wearing a full wetsuit, this may have something to do with it also since when I released the hood from my head it made me feel a little bit better.

Thanks for any help it would be greatly appreciated so this will never happen to me again, it was a little bit scary and I still get some chills thinking about it.

P.S. I'm certified, the website just won't let me change it in my profile, at the moment.

[fishb0y]

Looks like you had the hood too tight. My guess is that you had some air trapped in your hood, causing you ear drum to rupture. Might want to have a Dr. look at it.

[TheRedHead]

Glitch, sounds as if you had a reverse block and a baurotrama. You need to see the doc immediately. This is generally caused by diving with congestion. I take 12 hour sudafed when I'm slightly congested because as a wise diving doc in Cozumel told me, "A little bit congested is like being a little bit pregnant."

Please see your doctor about the ear!

[speedhound]

Hi Glitch,
To be on the safe side, especially with the ear bleeding, please see a doctor to get it checked out.

Did you have any problems - cold, sniffles, sinus trouble before you went diving? I'm not a medic in any way, shape or form, but sometimes with a blocked sinus as you descend the air volume inside wants to reduce, being under pressure. Soft tissues in the sinuses are slightly drawn into the sinus cavity, causing bleeding. Some divers are prone to this, and after the first incident of the day, know they can continue diving happily. If you're not one of the minority get it checked out.

The dizziness sounds like you've caused injury to your middle ear - another reason to get checked out, especially if there was blood.

Coming up, watching your bubbles is not a good steady rule to follow. Watch your depth gauge/computer and aim for 30ft or less per minute, with a ideally a safety stop at 10-15ft for three minutes - or longer if you want to breath down your tank.

You don't mention your dive buddy. Did you have one? If not, then you should be scared...Especially as you appear to be a new diver, you need to be with a buddy. Imagine what would have happened if you'd gone dizzy at 40' instead of on the surface...your father could be paying for a funeral.

Stern talking over with. I'm glad you appear to have survived, but please go and get your ear checked out by a doctor. While you're in the waiting room, take your class notes with you and revisit the parts where they cover ascents, colds/sinus trouble, and buddies ;)

Dive Safe and have fun!


Recently, yesturday, I went on one of my first dives down to 40ft in search of a lost object. When I started to come up I could tell something was going to be wrong, a little disoriented. When I reached the surface to turn to face the boat everything was spinning fast, really dizzy stuff. I swam to the boat and got out to find my dad telling me that my nose was bleeding and to find out by asking that my right ear was bleeding a little bit. Took awhile for the dizzyness to go away, 15-30 mins. What did I do wrong? How can I prevent this in the future so it doesn't happen again? Should I be worried about any ear problems?

The only thing I can think about that I did wrong was maybe not equalize enough or may have descended to fast, I felt perfectly fine at the bottom. I came up slow enough letting the bubbles beat me. I was wearing a full wetsuit, this may have something to do with it also since when I released the hood from my head it made me feel a little bit better.

Thanks for any help it would be greatly appreciated so this will never happen to me again, it was a little bit scary and I still get some chills thinking about it.

P.S. I'm certified, the website just won't let me change it in my profile, at the moment.

[TheRedHead]

What speedhound said. I had it happen at 100 feet winding my way up Punta Sur south in Cozumel and I drfited up 20 feet and thankfully, my buddy was right at my side to get me back down and serve as an anchor to reality. The spinning lasted about 5 minutes and was caused by vibrating cochlear from a forced valsava according to Dr. Piccolo. I also had blood in my mask, but no bleeding from the ear. I was a "little" congested. Learned my lesson.

[gangrel441]

One more possible cause. I have a 5mm hood I wear when I dive locally in the midwest. The hood has a smooth liner, similar to the liner on a Gold Core wetsuit. With the wetsuit, this liner does not allow water to seep all the way through the neoprene and to the diver's skin. Thus, the suit keeps warmer than a typical 7mm. The hood, likewise, tends to keep the head dry, not just warm. What I have noticed, however, is that it also traps air between the hood and the ears, making equalization difficult to impossible while leaving the hood in place. Therefore, when I dive this configuration, I frequently hook a finger inside the edge of the hood and pull it away from my cheeks on both sides to allow water to get to my ears for equalization. If you had a similar set of circumstances, and tried unsuccessfully to equalize, you may have ruptured the ear drum as stated above. While I have never had this injury, I have heard from first hand accounts that many times once the ear is injured, it doesn't really cause any pain. This may explain why you didn't notice anything until vertigo set in.

[fishb0y]

Coming up, watching your bubbles is not a good steady rule to follow. Watch your depth gauge/computer and aim for 30ft or less per minute, with a ideally a safety stop at 10-15ft for three minutes - or longer if you want to breath down your tank.

You don't mention your dive buddy. Did you have one? If not, then you should be scared...Especially as you appear to be a new diver, you need to be with a buddy. Imagine what would have happened if you'd gone dizzy at 40' instead of on the surface...your father could be paying for a funeral.
Wow... what a way to scare a person out of diving. They didn't mention they were diving air, nitrox or tri-mix either. Think you should go into gas laws also? Also, having your dive computer tell you when you should ascend is also a bad idea... go with your smallest bubbles. That's about 30ft/min. As long as your brain didn't leak out with the blood, it is always your best computer

Blown eardrums are never a good thing, but like everyone else said, see you doc. Even the pros could get a blockage, I strained mine once or twice.

[speedhound]

Wow... what a way to scare a person out of diving. .
...or into realising that he should be with a buddy, he should be careful with his ascents, into getting his ear checked out, into reviewing what he did good, and where he can improve.

Glitch, you posted looking for help which is a very good thing - there are no dumb questions. As I implied my comments were meant to be stern, but they were written to be helpful. If something I write helps someone to not injure themselves, or by whatever means, to become a better diver...then I'm happy with that. Other people can state their opinions, ideas, that's fine...the more ideas and discussions, the more information should be around. Glitch, you wouldn't know many people on SB if they walked up to you, we're strangers to you, just pixels on the screen. So listen to as many people as you choose, take as little or as much information as you need, then do what you are comfortable with.


They didn't mention they were diving air, nitrox or tri-mix either. Think you should go into gas laws also? .
Glitch didn't mention he had a problem with his gas. Boyles law does have more than a slight effect on squeezes and blocks though. :D


Also, having your dive computer tell you when you should ascend is also a bad idea.
I suggested (okay, told ;) ) that he watch his depth gauge/computer to monitor his ascent rate...not when he could ascend.


... go with your smallest bubbles. That's about 30ft/min. ...
...bubbles don't stay small for very long.. how small a bubble "soda size", "BB" size.. For a new diver,it's easy enough to be overloaded or distracted without the new task of watching the (my word:) )"pretty" bubbles whizz by before glancing around to pick new ones to watch...

The moving needle on a depth gauge or number on a computer, tells me it's 30ft/min. If I have a failure with one or both of those devices, then I do have my bubbles to fall back on..



As long as your brain didn't leak out with the blood, it is always your best computer
..unlike a dive computer, brain computers can be used out of the water too..think about a buddy, as a new diver review class notes, post to and listen to SB, plan your dive, dive your plan, and most of all dive within your limits and comfort zone. With time, you'll gain experience and abilities.

Like most things in life, a little thought ahead of time can help to avoid problems further ahead..." a stitch in time, saves nine" is the old saying (or at least it is in the UK ;) )


Blown eardrums are never a good thing, but like everyone else said, see you doc. Even the pros could get a blockage, I strained mine once or twice.
You been to the doc yet, Glitch? ;)

[Walter]

sounds as if you had a reverse block and a baurotrama. You need to see the doc immediately.

Exactly. If it were a squeeze, you would've had vertigo on the bottom.



The dizziness sounds like you've caused injury to your middle ear - another reason to get checked out, especially if there was blood.

Not likely, although getting it checked is an excellent idea. The blood probably came from a ruptured ear drum and the vertigo was most likely caused by cold water touching the semicircular canals.

[CoyKoi]

What did I do wrong? How can I prevent this in the future so it doesn't happen again? Should I be worried about any ear problems?
Welcome to diving, Glitch. I think Walter's nailed the diagnosis: ruptured ear drum and resulting vertigo from water in the canals. Go see an Ear, Nose and Throat (ENT) doc. A general practitioner (GP) won't do. Contact DAN (www.diversalertnetwork.org) for a list of ENT's in your area. If there isn't one, call every ENT in the phone book and ask the receptionist if Dr. ________ is an active scuba diver. Make an appt with the first one who says 'yes'. In addition to DAN's articles on ear barotrauma, your diver-doc will be able to give you some good advice, too. Don't dive again until you're cleared by the doc.

Good luck! Dive safe!

[gangrel441]

speedhound-

Since Glitch has not yet posted to defend himself, allow me to point out a little more subtly what fishbOy was digging into you about....

Where exactly did you see anything in Glitch's post that would lead you to believe he was diving without a buddy. I saw no mention of a buddy at all, including that he didn't have one. I did see him mention that his dad pointed out his bleeding ear and nose. Wouldn't you think it might be reasonable to assume that his dad was pointing this out to him because that was his buddy?

On the Nitrox/Trimix question/dig above, you said you didn't see any mention of Nitrox or Trimix in Glitch's post. Neither did I. Nor of buddy skills, or diving solo.

Food for thought.

[TheRedHead]

I think speedhound's intentions were good. I read the post as Glitch swam to the boat to find his Dad who told him... Hopefully, Glitch is at the ENTs office and that's why he hasn't responded.

[speedhound]

speedhound-

Since Glitch has not yet posted to defend himself, allow me to point out a little more subtly what fishbOy was digging into you about....

Where exactly did you see anything in Glitch's post that would lead you to believe he was diving without a buddy. I saw no mention of a buddy at all, including that he didn't have one. I did see him mention that his dad pointed out his bleeding ear and nose. Wouldn't you think it might be reasonable to assume that his dad was pointing this out to him because that was his buddy?

On the Nitrox/Trimix question/dig above, you said you didn't see any mention of Nitrox or Trimix in Glitch's post. Neither did I. Nor of buddy skills, or diving solo.

Food for thought.
I read Glitch's post as if he were diving, and returning to the boat where his dad was. His dad subsequently pointed out bleeding. If I misread the post, I apologise.

Fishb0y mentioned Nitrox/Trimix. I just said that Glitch didn't mention any problems with his gas (whatever gas/air it was).

Other than commenting on the need for a buddy, I didn't make any comment on buddy skills or solo diving. (The rationale of a new diver not diving solo was implied.)
As with most foods that pass my way, I'm happy to have a taste :D
No offence taken, none meant ;)

[gangrel441]

Fishb0y mentioned Nitrox/Trimix. I just said that Glitch didn't mention any problems with his gas (whatever gas/air it was).

I think that fishbOy's point was that Glitch didn't mention anything about diving without a buddy, either. Perhaps a smiley was omitted somewhere. :D

No harm, no foul. Maybe we'll hear the clarification from Glitch shortly. Cheers!

[Glitchrf]

I did go see the doctor about 2 hours after the first post, I have a hole in my right eardrum (tampanic membrane) it has already started healing and should take about two weeks, I'm also in perfect health :D . I wasn't able to respond because I do not have internet access at home at the present time.

Unfortunately I was diving alone, its hard to come by any scuba diving people around in my parts. Please don't FLAME me.

I did not have vertigo at the bottom, but I may have had it on the way up.

I think the problem is with the wetsuit that I'm wearing, the hood part, I saw one suggestion on how to stop this problem from happening again is there any other suggestions?

Thank you for any further suggestions and ones previous.

[speedhound]

Glad to hear you're on the mend ;)

PS Have you taken a look at the Great Lakes Wrecking Crew sub-forum? Might find buddies in there.

[-seaLover-]

i agree.. you should see a doctor, hope that won't happen again glitch.. Dive safe!!

[Glitchrf]

Any suggestions on how to prevent it in the future?

Any comment would be great, thank you.

[H2Andy]

well, right now the likely culprit is a too-tight hood that might have interfered
with your ears equalizing normally on the way up, leading to baurotrauma.
since your ears control balance, the dizziness and vertigo followed.

i would say don't wear the hood next time and see what happens.

if you were stuffy and/or congested, your body may be trying to tell you something
about your tolerance for diving like that (i.e. not much)

also, be aware that some people are just particularly sensitive to these problems,
and some of them bleed on every dive, believe it or not. the whole in the ear
and the vertigo/dizziness is a bit too much, though.

[speedhound]

One suggestion/request (after some PM'ing)- Glitch is looking for a dive buddy/group. He's in central Wisconsin - Wausau area. Anyone know of anyone to help? I would, but the commute from SE OH is inconvenient?

[TheRedHead]

Any suggestions on how to prevent it in the future?

Any comment would be great, thank you.

Since you had blood in your mask that came out of your sinuses, I don't think it is your hood. Do you do a valsalva to clear your ears?

[WetFatCat]

Is bleeding without prcedibg simptoms common? I believe that I should feel or do something wrong far before bleeding started. Like sharp pain or extraforced equalizing.

[speedhound]

Is bleeding without prcedibg simptoms common? I believe that I should feel or do something wrong far before bleeding started. Like sharp pain or extraforced equalizing.

I've known a couple of people that are susceptible to this, and the first they know of it is when they surface with red/pink/brown water in there mask. If you're having trouble clearing, then you will eventually feel pressure and pain in the sinuses.
For people with "weak" sinuses, they simply don't feel anything.

[mikerault]

Underwater it will look neon yellow....on my second OW dive after qualifying I had it happen...but nothing since.

Mike

[Glitchrf]

The blood in my mask was from my bleeding nose. Unfortunately the hood is connected to the 7mm Semi-dry full wetsuit (see the picture in my profile), I have a feeling it is to tight, anyway to modify it? How hard should you blow when you pinch your nose, I think I blow a little bit to hard?

Thank you for you continuing suggestions.

[TheRedHead]

Try swallowing instead of blowing. You can irritate your eustachian tubes causing them to swell if you blow too hard. When they swell, you are at risk of a reverse block.

[gangrel441]

Also, using the blowing technique, make sure some water is inside your hood and at your ears. You cannot equalize if the hood seals off your ears and causes a vacuum effect. This is the case with my hood. As I said earlier, hook the edge of the hood with your finger and pull it away from your face to allow water to get to your ears, then try equalizing.

[minnesota01r6]

glitchrf - www.wiscuba.com and www.mnscuba.com are your best bets for dive buddies in this area. A lot of MN scuba divers go to WI to dive because it's closer than the good quarries/lakes in MN.

Mods: I don't mean to link to other dive websites, but in this case most members of mn/wi scuba are members here, but go there for more interaction from LDS and local buddies. You can delete my post if it doesn't meet the TOS.

[mobster75]

How hard should you blow when you pinch your nose, I think I blow a little bit to hard?

Thank you for you continuing suggestions.

You shouldn't have to blow very hard at all through your nose to equalize. All it takes me is a slight puff to the nose after I pinch it and then the pressure is relieved and makes that slight "pop" noise inside my ears. If you're putting a lot of pressure on your ears from blowing, then you might need to try a new technique or have an ENT have a look at your ears, eustachian tubes, etc.

[jgmaroe]

As far as blowing too hard, blow lightly, then swallow right after. Combining the techniques works well, at least for me.

[ChrisA]

I'm with the others here. Sounds like a reverse block as there was no problem 'till ascent. But he never says it was painful. I would think a block bad enough to rupture and eardrum would hurt. On the other hand it is more typical to break eardrums on the way down. Possably he did and did not notice the problem until it was time to go back up.

As for timing an ascent. I like to look at the depth and I count two seconds between each foot and go upwards in one foot increments. I think 30 feet per minute is much slower then my bubbles. My experience is that bubbles are faster than even 60 foot/minute. Maybe I just can't see the small bubbles.

Very lucky the disorientation did not occure at 100 feet. The problem could have compounded into a runaway ascent or something.

[speedhound]

The blood in my mask was from my bleeding nose. Unfortunately the hood is connected to the 7mm Semi-dry full wetsuit (see the picture in my profile), I have a feeling it is to tight, anyway to modify it? How hard should you blow when you pinch your nose, I think I blow a little bit to hard?

Thank you for you continuing suggestions.

One trick I've done with a wetsuit hood is to very carefully get a hot skewer/small screwdriver and put a small hole or two in the hood roughly where your ears are.

For anyone else reading this (cma! :D ): put the suit on, pull the hood up, and mark where your ears are with chalk. Take said suit off, and then put the holes in the hood.

Being a small hole you're not going to get much water movement through it (so you won't get colder) but it should be enough to allow water in/out to relieve any pressure build up.

[tyke]

good advice on taking the suit off, i think hot metal spike on the old ear drums might be bad :p

[ClayJar]

My LDS actually has a soldering iron (pencil style) in their save-a-dive kit. They use it solely for putting ear vent holes in hoods.