Hose routing

[AquaTec]

Hose routing for those who breath the long hose

I run mine off the left post so if my valve handle roles off i know it right away. 7' hose routed around my right side down under my light canister [or if i am not using the light under a pouch i use] then up and around my neck. there is the issue of the deco bottle mounted to my right side, but I have found that the hose pulls out allmost all the way. by uncliping my deco bottle and thenm recliping it under the extended hose adds about 6" to the length. one reason i choose the 7' hose.

I run my secondary from my right post over my shoulder. straped around my neck with shock cord fairly close to my chin.

My pressure gauge is run from my left post. it is straped to my inflater hose with bike tire intertube, then under my arm and atached to the end of my inflator hose.

I use a double bladder, so I run an inflation hose one from each post. both routed under my arms and towards my chest.

Drysuit inflation is from an argon bottle seperatly mounted.

my rig has a chest strap that goes across the two shoulder straps. in the middle of that chest strap I have placed a ring [sort of a large key ring about an 1-1/2" in diameters

To this I clip both inflator hoses with dog clips, I also have my knife/line cutter atached to this same chest strap.

well that is all I can think of for my hose routing, it works for me, is very stream line, and everything is reachable above my waist

[Rick Murchison]

I like the right post for the 7' hose. My reasoning is that if in an actual air sharing situation in single file, should there be a rolloff I'd want to be the one who finds out, not my OOA buddy.
Rick

[ckharlan66]

I am just now assembling my doubles rig, but I will route my primary on the right for the reasons that Rick outlined.

Chad

[AquaTec]

I figured a solution to this while practicing once and having his air turned off while sharing with my ooa buddy in a restriction [well big restriction. in otherwords he was breathing off my long hose, and swimming out in front of me and my buddy behind me turned off my left post, his air.

What i learned from this was it is nice to be able to read your pressure gauge without using your hands to see it, second if in an air sharing situation and by monitoring my pressure gauge as well, i can see if the needle starts to fluctuate, this being a sign that the valve has been turned down but not off or if it is at zero and I am still breathing then it has completly roled off, and i reach back and turn it on

I can now have one hand on the line and another hand on my buddy maintaining feel comunications and contact and look down and see my pressure gauge

[kcanty]

for the reasons mentioned.

Aquatec,

have you done a lights out ( silt out ) air
share drill? Your visual check of your
SPG won't be effective then.

Kell

[roakey]

Also AquaTec's solution increases task loading (having to manually keep checking the SPG) at the worst of all possible times, when you're already task loaded with an OOA situation.

If the task loading becomes severe, manual operations such as checking your SPG will be the first to go.

To use computer lingo, having the *backup* on the left post makes a roll off a interrupt driven process -- you need do nothing unless you get interrupted (your breathing becomes difficult). Having the *primary* (the donated reg) on the left post makes this a polled process -- you have to keep checking your SPG. This takes up more cycles right at the time where you need all the cycles you can get (an OOA situation).

Long hose on left post -- A very, very bad idea.

Roak

Ps. This deceased equine has already been flogged in the following notes:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t9920/s.html and
http://www.scubaboard.com/t11181/s.html

[AquaTec]

kcanty once bubbled...
for the reasons mentioned.

Aquatec,

have you done a lights out ( silt out ) air
share drill? Your visual check of your
SPG won't be effective then.

Kell

this has nothing to do with silt out light out. in a silt out light out you are the same no matter which post your reg is mounted on.

it is by touch and feel.

and the added work load is a simple glance nothing more than that. plus i am going with the precentages here.

there is a higher likely hood of my left post rolling off than there is of me being in an air share situation and then having it happen.
yes i do check the valve periodicly. but it could role seconds after i check.

i would hate to hand off my long hose and go to my reserve and find it with no air, this seems to add more task loading and stress right at the critical moment of handing off your hose to an out of air diver. either he needs to wait till i turn my air on and then pass him my hose or i pass it to him and i have no air until i turn my air back on.

as for your PS i am just rehashing, to keep things interesting. a new thread can bring up new ideas. i don't have to go to a stale dated thread to find an old solution. i am looking for new input from the people who are here now

[roakey]

Rarely does someone show such inconsistent logic so close together...

First AquaTec states:

AquaTec once bubbled...
...second if in an air sharing situation and by monitoring my pressure gauge as well, i can see if the needle starts to fluctuate, this being a sign that the valve has been turned down but not off or if it is at zero and I am still breathing then it has completly roled off, and i reach back and turn it on
Then, in the very next reply:

AquaTec once bubbled...
this has nothing to do with silt out light out. in a silt out light out you are the same no matter which post your reg is mounted on.

it is by touch and feel.
And there's where your reasoning if flawed.

Your solution requires a visual cue, the SPG fluctuating, you said so yourself. Now you're turning around and acknowledging that in a silt out everything is by touch and feel.

So it looks like you have one of three solutions:

1) Get a Braille SPG.
2) Expect your buddy, OOA for the SECOND time to turn around in a silt out, making it worse and somehow communicate to you that he's OOA again (and probably drown in the process, but that's OK, YOU have air) or
3) See the error of your ways and fix a real sucky (no pun intended) configuration.

Even in a silt out if your backup is on the left post, where it's supposed to be, a roll off IS by touch and feel. You feel the difficulty breathing and you touch and turn back on your left post.

Roak

[D.I.R.Lizard]

Roakey~

Does no good, to try with some people.
As you said this has been beat to death. And some people if they would read the stuff they are typing, they would realize that this makes no sense!

Some people can have all the experiance in the world and still the simplest things are beyond them.

I wonder if he has problems finding buddies? Since he is obviously out for himself!!

[AquaTec]

ok i missed your point of the silt out situation.

[roakey]

AquaTec once bubbled...
ok i missed your point of the silt out situation.
Absolutely mind-boggling.

Someone else want to take a crack at it? I don't see how I could make it more obvious.

Roak

[AquaTec]

ok i missed your point of the silt out situation.

in a none silt out situation it is simply a matter of monitoring your gauge.

in a silt out no light situation then you are left with a touch and feel situation. the second situation being worse than the first. and a brail spg won't help because you will have both hands occupied

I agree with your thoughts that if you have the reg from the left post in your mouth then you may possibly feel the sucking feeling of air being shut off. if you are using some old outdated reg.

but with todays high performance regs i do not believe this is as true as it was in the old days. that good old sucking a vanilla shake through a straw to know when you are low on air is a thing of the past.

just try it sometime. I am trying to evolve past what was once ok to do, the equipment has changed and this method is not as usefull anymore

[Divesherpa]

I gotta agree with Roakey on this one. Aquatec, your logic is very diluted on this point. Your practices would be unsafe in a very harsh environment. You may want to listen to the arguments that are being made as they make perfect sense. At least consider the possibility that your method can't work when it would be needed.
Beating the same dead horse as Roakey. That's very refreshing.
Cheers

[AquaTec]

ok i will change it

[AquaTec]

so describe to me the procedure and what if in an out of air with it attached to the right post.

[AquaTec]

are we done discussing this. no good debate on some of my points.

so my idea is not perfect maybe...but i think i have a couple of good points that could be discussed.

[Uncle Pug]

Doug this was already explained by Roaky and it has been explained in the threads referenced but I admire your willingness to change.


so describe to me the procedure and what if in an out of air with it attached to the right post.

Not to overstate the case... but if you really do need further clarification:

The long hose primary routed from your right post is donated to the OOA. This post will not roll off.

You breath the necklaced secondary from your left post and if this rolls off you will know it because your regulator will quit delivering you gas... you simply reach back and turn the left post on.

[AquaTec]

makes perfect since

thanks PUG

[Uncle Pug]

AquaTec once bubbled...
thanks PUG
One further tip that wasn't stated before but should be included if you are going to change over.

The wing inflator comes off of the right post (I know you have two but that is another issue.)

This way should you go to your back up and find that it has rolled off and for some reason you cannot get it back on right away... stuck, broken off, hard to reach.... you can breath off of your inflator since it is on the right post until you sort the problem out.

[AquaTec]

I have often thought of this as an option, not the hose routing but the breathing from the infater if ever necessary.


so now tell me why you dont like the dual bladder idea

[Munin]

AT, do you dive with both inflators connected at all times? I assume you use only one bladder normally. Have you considered the effect of a slow leak in your backup inflator that fills the bladder without your knowledge? This is often cited as one of the reasons not to dive a double bladdered bc, at least with both inflators connected.

[Rick Murchison]

From my perspective, a double bladder is fine if you're diving wet - it provides a level of redundancy. But if dry, your redundancy is in your drysuit and the second bladder becomes an added failure point with no required benefit.
Rick

[AquaTec]

Thanks Rick and Munin for the constructive oppinions. I enoy learning how others think and why they do what they do.

I do not connect the reserve inflator hose, for the reasons Munnin stressed.

I do dive the bladder both wet and dry. I use a differnt rig in caves. [Dive Rite Classic wing with ABS backplate]

I don't see the failure point on the reserve bladder, except the extra inflator hose off the 1st stage, which i could eliminate and use the same hose for both sides i suppose