View Full Version : ScubaPro D400 Being Phased Out
September 26th, 2002, 10:27 PM
I just got the new 2003 catalog, and the D400 is no longer in the lineup. They have replaced it with a new reg called the X650. From the description, it appears to be an upgraded D400. The reg looks kind of like the D400, maybe even a little stranger. Anyone have any inside info on this reg? Anyone have any early scematics? (I don't think ScubaPro has sent me any yet.) I wonder if it will out perform the S600.
September 27th, 2002, 09:08 AM
If it out performed the S600, how would you know?
Sometimes you really have to wonder how much of this is simply a marketing scheme directed at those who have to have the latest & newest.
September 27th, 2002, 09:11 AM
My understanding (without any actual first hand knowledge, only rumor) is the 650 is an adjustable version of the 400. So it just added some knobs to the reg.
Like I said this is just what I have heard I might well be wrong.
September 27th, 2002, 10:46 AM
Hmm... the new improved "Darth Vader" model heh? I actually got to try an instructor's D400 a year ago. It breathed really nice, I think even a little smoother than my Apeks if I remember right.
September 27th, 2002, 10:51 AM
Anyone know where I can get the hose adaptor for the D400 that fits my Hoover? Looks perfect for replacing my crevice tool and picking up the dust in the corners.
September 27th, 2002, 03:16 PM
Awap - I agree. On most of the ScubaPro models, you could not really tell a difference in performance.
One of my buddies actually prefers his D400 over his S600.
September 27th, 2002, 07:56 PM
It's a D400 sideways in the case, essentially. Same basic mechanism (coaxial flow valve), etc with an adjustment and a smaller poppet. Supposedly it will out perform the 600. MSRP $610 vs $522 for the 600.
September 27th, 2002, 08:42 PM
the D400 was the turd of Scubapro's line.
September 28th, 2002, 03:38 PM
Why? I haven't used it but I've heard only positive things about it. Always interested in other opinions...
January 1st, 2003, 07:24 AM
The D400 was a nice reg. Too bad they stopped makaing it.
January 1st, 2003, 01:26 PM
It's an updated version of the D400.
User adjustment knobs added to some internal improvements to make even easier breathing than the D400.
The biggest improvement is for the service technicians. It's easier to take apart and assemble.
January 6th, 2003, 06:46 PM
Its internal parts are more like the 600 than the 400
thay just kept the old "cool" look
December 9th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Nothing beats the original Pilot! Sorry, it may have been complex and hard to service, but what a first class second stage. Kind of like a Ferrari Formula one car. Good for one race and then it needs an over haul... in this case, two seasons or less of diving and then back into the tech shop.... a small price to pay I reckon.. any one else out there with thoughts on the Pilot?
December 9th, 2005, 03:42 PM
No Pilot but used AIR1 for years, still have 2. Found parts kits, overhauled and stored with spring removed to preserve the new seats.
Great breather but all water when head-first.
These days I prefer something with an exhaust tee (when not 2-hosing) as I always have a camera.
December 10th, 2005, 12:53 AM
I have a couple Air 1's and a Pilot to Air 1 conversion kit sitting around, but don't have any Pilot's sitting around.
SP has stopped suporting the Air 1, but at least it uses the same poppets a the D400, so as long as you manage to not poke a hole in the diaphragm they are still going to be usable.
Personally, I think they breathe too wet for my tastes and I liked the diaphragm being moved to the other side (as well as the diaphragm being easier to install) on the D300/D350/D400 series.
I own a pair of D300's a couple D350's and about a half dozen D400's. In my opinion the D350 and D400 were the best second stages ever made. They achieved superb performance without the finicky and hard to tune traits of the Pilot.
I'll agree the X650 is easier for the average not-too-bright tech to service and tune than the D400. But I would have preferred SP do a better job of tuning up their techs rather than discontinue the D400. Stupid move.
The X650 looks like the D400 with it's angled diaphragm, but it does not share the coaxial exhaust valve and the engineers missed the point completely regarding case geometry fault. You could tune a D400 for stable, freeflow free operation at about .5 to .6 inches of water. With the X650, at anything less than about 1.5 inches of water, you get slight freeflow out the exhaust valve. So the breathing performance of the X650 is on par with the D400, but only if can tolerate the slow dribble of air out the exhaust valve between inhalations. If adjusted to prevent the slight freeflow in most swimming posistions, it's performance is similar to the G250, S600, etc, just a bit smoother due to the more linear air flow. out the air barrel.
The X650 looks like a D400 and is, compared to most other regs on the market, a superb regulator - but it is no D400.
December 10th, 2005, 02:19 AM
It's funny, I just saw a new old stock D400 on ebay and was tempted primarily because of DA's rave reviews. It ended up going for about $140, a little too rich for my tastes as I'm happy with my G250 and balanced adjustable. A little hijack; does anyone know if it's possible to get a seacure type 1 on the old metal case balanced adjustable? The metal flange for the mouthpiece is a different shape, and I can't tell if the rigid plastic part in the seacure will prevent me from getting it to fit. Anyone with knowledge of this?
December 10th, 2005, 10:42 AM
The market for used or new old stock regs tends to limit the price to about 1/2 the retail price of a new and currently produced reg. Much higher than that and people will just buy a new one from an on-line source. (And $140 is right in that range for a new old stock D400, so it's not over priced, it is just not a super deal.)
It's usually cheaper to buy a D400 attached to a first stage and then sell the first stage to recover most of the cost as people often pay more for a high performance first stage than it is really worth. For example, you can get a used Mk 20 D400 for around $175 and then still get $100-$125 out of a used Mk 20 first stage alone. I bought a new old stock Mk 20 D400 last spring from a shop for $310 and then sold the still new Mk 20 alone for $210 leaving me with a $100 NOS D400.
I try not to pay more than about $75 for a D400 in good unserviced condition and usually won't pay more than about $125 for one in new old stock condition. But I need to stop saying nice things about the D400, as it seems to eliminate any good deals on e-bay. I have had to watch more than one otherwise not heavily bid D400 go for what it is worth, or more than it is worth in an auction when a board member decided they had to have one. We had one member here who bought most of the D400's that showed up on e-bay for 3-4 months. They can be addictive.
December 10th, 2005, 02:47 PM
They can be addictive.
I'll second that sentiment. I ended up with a D350 second stage (mainly by luck rather than judgement). After getting it serviced and resisting the shops attempts to sell me X650 "because the D350 is really old...", I discovered how good it really was in the water.
Now I'd like to get a second one for my dive buddy.
December 10th, 2005, 07:47 PM
I bought an extemely nice MK 25 D400 the other day. Mostly for the D400, but also so I could attach the un-needed Mk 25 first stage to an only been dove 3 times X650 that I bought for evaluaton purposes and want to sell. The X650 is great but it is just not in the same class as the D400.
Keep resisting all attempts to "upgrade" your D350 to an X650, S600, G250HP, etc. Of course, if it a later model D350 with the D400 case, you can upgrade it to D400 status pretty inexpensively.
December 11th, 2005, 09:35 AM
Reading all this, I'm really appreciating the screaming deal a friend just made me on one of his Mk10/D400 sets :D
It should be here this week, I'm looking forward to diving it.