Wings

[Josh Levinson]

Hi everyone,

I've gotten into technical diving over the last year-and-a-half or so, and now I've gotten to the point where I dive with twin steel 98s, and usually one steel 46 deco bottle and one al80 stage bottle. For the moment, I'm staying in the 180 ft range.

I'm currenlty diving with the dual bladder 100 lbs bungeed OMS wings. The one thing I do know, is that I don't like these wings. I'm not altogether against bungees, but I think the OMS bungee design is quite poor (I much prefer the Dive Rite design). I also find that 100 lbs is way too much for the type of diving I do. I am now looking to change my wings, but I don't know what to replace my current ones with. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

Like I said, I have nothing against bungees inherently, but I also would have no objections to unbungeed wings. I think my main uncertainty is the lift of the wings. A lot of people have told me that 55 lbs is enough, but I'm skeptical. Is 55 lbs really enough for the type of diving I described above?

Anyways, thanks in advance for your input.


Josh

[diverberr]

Josh Levinson once bubbled...
Hi everyone,

I've gotten into technical diving over the last year-and-a-half or so, and now I've gotten to the point where I dive with twin steel 98s, and usually one steel 46 deco bottle and one al80 stage bottle. For the moment, I'm staying in the 180 ft range.

I'm currenlty diving with the dual bladder 100 lbs bungeed OMS wings. The one thing I do know, is that I don't like these wings. I'm not altogether against bungees, but I think the OMS bungee design is quite poor (I much prefer the Dive Rite design). I also find that 100 lbs is way too much for the type of diving I do. I am now looking to change my wings, but I don't know what to replace my current ones with. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

Like I said, I have nothing against bungees inherently, but I also would have no objections to unbungeed wings. I think my main uncertainty is the lift of the wings. A lot of people have told me that 55 lbs is enough, but I'm skeptical. Is 55 lbs really enough for the type of diving I described above?

Anyways, thanks in advance for your input.


Josh

Josh,

If you're stuck on backplates, then disregard my advice. If however, you're open to suggestion then I'll give you this:

Zeagle Tech: I've been diving a Zeagle bc since 1995. Mine is worn out now and I'm replacing it with, you guessed it, a Zeagle Tech. Integrated weights, a good harness, lots of d-rings (8), and for me the best of all, NO F**KING BACKPLATE.

On deeper dives, I dive double 125's, with 45 and 63 sidemounts. No problem! Between dives, I can change sets of tanks in a minute, or from doubles to a single in a minute. Then I relax while I watch everyone else struggling with wingnuts, bolts, and backplates.

Before I found my Zeagle Tech, I too dove a backplate: NEVER AGAIN. OMS and Dive Rite, I've nothing against your products, but there's only one BC for this cat.

See you on the bottom,
Al.

[padiscubapro]

Josh Levinson once bubbled...
Hi everyone,

I've gotten into technical diving over the last year-and-a-half or so, and now I've gotten to the point where I dive with twin steel 98s, and usually one steel 46 deco bottle and one al80 stage bottle. For the moment, I'm staying in the 180 ft range.

I'm currenlty diving with the dual bladder 100 lbs bungeed OMS wings. The one thing I do know, is that I don't like these wings. I'm not altogether against bungees, but I think the OMS bungee design is quite poor (I much prefer the Dive Rite design). I also find that 100 lbs is way too much for the type of diving I do. I am now looking to change my wings, but I don't know what to replace my current ones with. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

Like I said, I have nothing against bungees inherently, but I also would have no objections to unbungeed wings. I think my main uncertainty is the lift of the wings. A lot of people have told me that 55 lbs is enough, but I'm skeptical. Is 55 lbs really enough for the type of diving I described above?

Anyways, thanks in advance for your input.


Josh
right now you are about 45 lbs negative at the start of a dive (not taking into account thermal protection and only allowed for about 7lbs for the regs which is probably on the low side). You should now figure out how negative your accessories are.. Remember a ""55lb wing" doesn't necessarily have 55lbs of lift many are overrated and for full lift the wing must be able to inflate freely and fully.. also fresh vs salt water will make a differance.. If you are using brass spgs they are better made but more negative than plastic guages.. don't forget figuring all those snaps used on your accessories.

I know I dive with a dui cf 300 and fully deflate prior to diving (by immersion on the dive ladder) I know I have very little buoyancy by the suit (nearly neutral)..

I rather have more lift than not enough.. I have already dragged divers up that were overweighted and didn't have enough lift...

You never mentioned what type of thermal protection you are using.. If its a drysuit You have suplemental buoyancy if needed, if its a wetsuit, you have nearly no buoyancy at depth. Many people dive twin 80s which would be at least 10lbs less negative,(more if you overfill your 95s) at the start and would be pretty bouyant at the end of a dive.

There is another situation (albeit rare) that extra lift can come in handy.. I was diving a wall in warm, water and got caught in a severe downcurrent(totally unexpected).. The extra lift definately helped out while I tried to get out of the downwelling.. I was already well beyond rec limits so my wetsuit had no bouyancy, and was glad to have some extra lift.. I have no doubts I would have gotten out of it without the extra lift, but it helped slow the decent immediately and kept me withing my contingency planning.

[trymixdiver]

if you want a reccomendation on a wing, id say the Halcyon. I had a Diverite and needed to replace it due to wear. I got my halcyon due to the posts in this forum and im not dissapointed.

The quality of the Halcyon is TOPS. Its well constructed and has a very durable and thick feel to it. i suspect this wing will out last me.

Andy

id say between 50 and 60 lbs of lift is more than enough.

[deepocean]

HI all

The quality of the Halcyon is TOPS


You probaly know this but for those who dont know: in wreck diving puncturing your wings is very easy.

i heard that George Irvine, used a car inner tube for his wings, and that even when Halcyon made the wings that he liked. I even heard that he is still using it with his wreck diving wings. My question is :

--> Does nt this add any pressure/strain to the wing when it wants to inflate and deflate?

--> Anyone any exprience with this?

--> And if not, WHICH type of inner tube, which thickness and material and size etc.., did he use? Do i need the inner tube of car's or trucks?



Xerxes

[JamesK]

If you can get a hold of a large innertube, something like a large car tube, use that. It does not add any strain, because it is cut and placed over the inner bladder. What you would is to cut out the inner radius of the tube, in a way that you shape it like the bladder. Then cut out holes for the inflator and lower dump valve. Place one of these on each side of the bladder, and then reinsert your bladder.


Hope that helps.

[caverkevin]

Josh,

I dropped you a private message

Kevin

[diverberr]

JamesK once bubbled...
If you can get a hold of a large innertube, something like a large car tube, use that. It does not add any strain, because it is cut and placed over the inner bladder. What you would is to cut out the inner radius of the tube, in a way that you shape it like the bladder. Then cut out holes for the inflator and lower dump valve. Place one of these on each side of the bladder, and then reinsert your bladder.


Hope that helps.

James,

That's a great idea. I never thought of that before, but I think I'll be doing it. It will add a lot of protection to the bladder.

Thanks,
Al.

[JamesK]

Glad I could help.

[WYDT]

diverberr once bubbled...

See you on the bottom,
Al.

Just curious.... are you diving wet or dry? Why steel stages? What do you hate about backplates so much?

[WYDT]

Hi Josh,

One thing no one here has mentioned is that you should strive to balance your rig.

If properly balanced you should be able to swim up from depth with tanks in the event of BC failure and be able to stay at 15ft with nearly empty tanks and no air in your BC.

It's that simple... if your rig is balanced you should not need a large wing. The only gas needed in the wing should be enough to offset the weight of the gas in your tanks.

DSAO!

[dkerr]

WYDT once bubbled...
Hi Josh,

The only gas needed in the wing should be enough to offset the weight of the gas in your tanks.

DSAO!

Just curious, but shouldn't they also ofset the boyancy loss of the exposure suit? Granted you need to be able to swim the rig up from depth, but shouldn't the wing be able to have enough lift to also deal with this?
Thanks
Doug

[WYDT]

dkerr once bubbled...

Just curious, but shouldn't they also ofset the boyancy loss of the exposure suit? Granted you need to be able to swim the rig up from depth, but shouldn't the wing be able to have enough lift to also deal with this?
Thanks
Doug

One should dive a drysuit with very little gas in it to begin with. The suits buoyancy shift should be minimal in the event of a flood.

I've had my DUI TLS350 soaking wet inside (bad dump valve) and didn't notice any difference in buoyancy. 400G Thinsulate is hydrophobic and will still keep some air trapped in it and still retains much of it's warmth as well so I don't think you could actually loose all the drysuits buoyancy even if you tore the leg off but it shouldn't matter as you'd have very minimal gas in it to begin with.

[Josh Levinson]

Thanks your input everyone.

I understand the theory behind how much lift you need from a bladder and all that. What I meant was, what do people generally use? Do you see most people doing the type of diving I mentioned above using 55 lb wings, or 70 lb wings, etc?

Also, sometimes I dive with no stages, one stage, 2 stages, and in the future I plan to dive with more than 2. I understand that your rig has to be balanced, but I'm not gonna have a set of wings for every one of those situations. Which wings would be best encompass all of them (if such a wing exists)?

Does anyone here dive a Dive Rite bungeed wing? What advantages and disadvantages do you notice compared to unbungeed wings?

Thanks again guys.


Josh

[diverberr]

WYDT once bubbled...


Just curious.... are you diving wet or dry? Why steel stages? What do you hate about backplates so much?

I'm diving dry. Water temperature here rarely exceeds 60 degrees at your twenty foot stop, and I've never seen it above 42 degrees at 200 ft.

It's not so much the backplates themselves that I don't like, it's the method of mounting. I don't like having to mess with nuts, bolts, wingnuts, and wrenches every time I do a dive. With my Zeagle, it's one less thing I have to do when planning and getting ready for a dive. And if I'm doing two dives that day, I don't have to mess with it on the boat either, Just release the cams, slip one set of tanks out, and the next set in.

Hope I've cleared up my earlier rant about backplates.

See you on the bottom,
Al.

[diverberr]

WYDT once bubbled...


Just curious.... are you diving wet or dry? Why steel stages? What do you hate about backplates so much?


Oh Yeah, about the stages. I'm diving a steel 45 and an aluminum 63. Before you ask: no, the different buoyancy characteristics don't bother me. I clip more of my gear (lights, reels, etc) to my right side where the aluminum tank is to offset it.

That is my standard rig. I also dive a 30 and 40 as deco bottles(both aluminum), a 30 and 45, a 63 and 80, or two 80's. It all depends on what dive I'm doing, and how much deco gas I need.

Al.

[padiscubapro]

WYDT once bubbled...


Just curious.... are you diving wet or dry? Why steel stages? What do you hate about backplates so much?

WYDT, the difference in buoyancy characteristics of a lp45 and aluminum 50 AND AN AL63, is only about 1.5 lbs at rated pressure, the 45 is a much more confortable tank to carry and just overfilling it to 3000 will give you 52 cuft.

its also only about 3 lbs more negative (full) than a 40, which for most of my dives is my favorite sling to carry.. if you are someone who needs extra weight the 40 will be about 2 lbs pos at end of dive (if you made the tank neutral at empty the overall weight would be the same as the 45) while the 45 is neutral.