Samir
Registered
Who out there using RGBM tabels for trimix dives? Has anyone had problems??
RGBM who's using it?
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I have not seen any tables yet. NAUI is supposed to have them, but I haven't found a source yet.
Some of the planning software is supposed to have RGBM soon also, but have not seen it active in the ones I have.
tombiowami
Contributor
Actually Suunto Vypers and Mosquitos at the very least use RGBM, and probably some of the others in their line.
The table is published in the manual, but since one is usually using the computer, they are not that useful. They are more conservative on a square profile.
There is a link to the Naui site with the tables on it. They are pretty cumbersome IMO, and limiting, only 3 dives tops per day. The intention was to make them easier to read, but I think they failed. I also think making tables more limiting will push more people not to use them.
I will try and dig up the link, I could not find them by searching or browsing their site a couple months ago. A Naui instructor friend of mine has a set.
Tommy
The table is published in the manual, but since one is usually using the computer, they are not that useful. They are more conservative on a square profile.
There is a link to the Naui site with the tables on it. They are pretty cumbersome IMO, and limiting, only 3 dives tops per day. The intention was to make them easier to read, but I think they failed. I also think making tables more limiting will push more people not to use them.
I will try and dig up the link, I could not find them by searching or browsing their site a couple months ago. A Naui instructor friend of mine has a set.
Tommy
...although it is not the default and you cannot use it for nitrox dives (only trimix). I have played with it, but only have a demo copy of the software. I am sticking with DecoPlanner until something better comes out.
Along those lines, and perhaps Dr. Wienke will chime in here, I saw Dr. Wienke speak last month and he gave a very impressive talk about RGBM, deep stops, and deco theory. I wish there were more software packages to choose from than Abyss, as I don't do trimix yet and I hate the user interface. He, or someone doing RGBM stuff, is supposed to release new software next year that incorporates all the latest stuff...not sure about that or when it will be released though.
Along those lines, and perhaps Dr. Wienke will chime in here, I saw Dr. Wienke speak last month and he gave a very impressive talk about RGBM, deep stops, and deco theory. I wish there were more software packages to choose from than Abyss, as I don't do trimix yet and I hate the user interface. He, or someone doing RGBM stuff, is supposed to release new software next year that incorporates all the latest stuff...not sure about that or when it will be released though.
WYDT
Contributor
Could I ask what you base that statement on?
Reason I am asking, I am looking at new computers and the Vytec is one of the top 2, along with the VR3. The Vytec uses RGBM and is a nitrox only computer. Running the software dive simulator Suunto provides shows the profiles to be ultra-conservative, even with the RGBM set to 50%. Just comparing the profiles against dives I have done using GAP and VPlanner, I am not sure the Vytec is even usable for any deco diving using nitrox, let alone air.
Phil
Here's the warning/information screen I get when I change Abyss from its default Abyss 150 algorithm into RGBM.
Maybe we misunderstood each other...I am talking about Abyss decompression software and not the Suunto computer line. I do not own a Vytec, although I do have a Vyper. The RGBM implementation in these is ultra-conservative. Is the conservatism the reason you are leaning away from the Vytec?
No, I knew you were discussing software, but I was curious as to, if RGBM only applied to trimix, why/how it was implemented in a nitrox/air computer. My fault for being less than concise.
I agree, the RGBM in the Suunto does seem ultra-conservative, and yes, that would steer my away from the Vytec. I wanted something that could do reasonable deco dives using nitrox and doubles, and have gauge mode to use for trimix. The Vytec appeared to fill that requirement, but not if I have to spend an additional 20 minutes doing deco for a fairly simple dive.
I also find it very confusing that Abyss has all those dire warnings concerning a very agressive profile using RGBM, while the Suuntos are directly opposite.
Phil
No, RGBM is a model/algorithm that has applications in the recreational space for air and nitrox mixes as well. The newly released NAUI tables are RGBM tables and there are extended range/deco tables coming out soon using RGBM. IMHO, and I am not sure, the reason for RGBM's restrictions in the Abyss implementation is grounded in the Abyss software itself. I don't see any logical reason for RGBM to not do all that we have talked about (nitrox, air, shallow deco, etc.), so I am left with the notion that it must be some limiting factor in Abyss' implementation of RGBM.
Agreed. My buddy has the Vytec and I have a Vyper. My Vyper keeps me in the water about twice as long (obviously depending on profile and bottom time) as Decoplanner...I do not know a good way around this other than stop using it as anything other than a gauge (even with Nitrox) and switch to tables/software unless another computer does it better (maybe the VR3).
I think the Suunto implementation is dumbed down significantly and made so ultra-conservative that the warning is inherent in its use. The Abyss model might be less conservative, but I wouldn't know since I can't really use it. I ran some sample profiles on it, but since it won't go over 100' in depth I can't get much out of it. Since I am not diving trimix, I found the demo pretty useless and knocked it out of my list of programs to use for my personal diving and decided on decoplanner until something else comes out.
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