DIR Argon Rig

[MASS-Diver]

Hi guys, I not sure if this a "tek" enough question to post here, but, I knew I would get the right answers, so here's goes:

I have a halcyon bp (on a side a note I had a dive rite TP for a week before someone offered to trade for their halcyon), and now as winter approaches I'm getting an argon set up. It's my understanding that the bottle goes on the left, but, what's the best way to attach it to the bp while avoiding metal-metal connections?
Also, I hear you should have a piston style primary stage and a special valve to prevent blowing your hose/suit in the event of a first stage failure? Is this info correct? Any other argon related advice anyone can offer would be apprecaited.

Thanks!:confused:

[Uncle Pug]

You need an OPRV (over pressure relief valve)... $20 LeisurePro.
No sense using argon unless you are going to purge your suit with argon before the dive so that it has argon in it already instead of air. The small amount of argon you add during the dive will not help if it is just squirted in on top of air. We use an old steel 72 fitted with a first stage and inflator whip to purge our suits... that way we can do the dive with small 6cf argon bottles. Others use larger 13cf argon bottles and purge from them.

here is our set up:

[Uncle Pug]

We use a short piece of weight belting to hold the bottle with a bungee loop around the valve handle to keep it from slipping down and out.

[O-ring]

...I know those aren't zipties on there!

[Uncle Pug]

O-ring once bubbled...
...I know those aren't zipties on there!

Those are the originals that I put the loop on with... still fine after all this time :D

But if you are a weenie you can use a flange nut~n~bolt.

[O-ring]

But if you are a weenie you can use a flange nut~n~bolt.
I was thinking Aquaseal...

[Dryglove]

http://homepage.mac.com/samilaine/PhotoAlbum7.html

[MechDiver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
You need an OPRV (over pressure relief valve)... $20 LeisurePro.
No sense using argon unless you are going to purge your suit with argon before the dive so that it has argon in it already instead of air. The small amount of argon you add during the dive will not help if it is just squirted in on top of air

Your status on the ng and experience notwithstanding, I have to disagree with this. If I am standing and put air, or whatever into my suit, it goes up to my neckseal and sits there. The only way I could see to really do this purge thing would be to literally stand on your head and inflate the suit, wave your arms around, then stand up.

I also disagree that argon does not help just using it while diving, as that is what I do, and it makes a big difference over air, whether using mix or not. I do not use my suit for buoyancy control, so I have very little argon in my suit most times, but it still makes a difference.

Phil

[Uncle Pug]

MechDiver once bubbled...
If I am standing and put air, or whatever into my suit, it goes up to my neckseal and sits there. The only way I could see to really do this purge thing would be to literally stand on your head and inflate the suit, wave your arms around, then stand up.
That isn't the way of things Phil.... though the mental picture is amusing... :D

When you fill the suit with argon it mixes with the air even though argon has greater density and tendd to sink toward the feet. You then purge that out of the neck seal and fill again. Three fills and purges and the suit only has a small percentage of air left in it. This can be demonstrated with an O2 analyzer for those who need proof.

Now if you think that a little argon added to your air is a good thing then you should try adding argon to argon... it goes beyond the placebo effect quite nicely. :D

[O-ring]

Seriously, how much of a benefit are we talking about using argon instead of backgas (non-helium)?

At what temperature range do you think argon starts to become a necessity?

[MechDiver]

O-ring once bubbled...
Seriously, how much of a benefit are we talking about using argon instead of backgas (non-helium)?

At what temperature range do you think argon starts to become a necessity?

I wouldn't say it's necessary really. Depends alot on your suit, undies and personal comfort level, but for me, 55 and under is "nicer". I have been in 36 degree water for over an hour without it though. Not including mix diving, I get the biggest benefit on the longer doubles deco dives just due to in water time. With most rec style dives, it's a toss up whether to use it or not.

Phil

[MechDiver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...


Now if you think that a little argon added to your air is a good thing then you should try adding argon to argon... it goes beyond the placebo effect quite nicely. :D

Okay, I'll give it a try in Hoodsport Nov. 8th, and I'll be totally objective :)

Seein a bunch of guys with doubles on standing on their heads in a boat would have been fun though...

[MASS-Diver]

Thanks guys.

Pug, I think I had read you or someone else advising about pre-purging before, so my buddy and I were planning on splitting the cost ofan older tank (which, of course will be well labeled) and purging before dives.

I don't dive mix and most of my winder dives are pretty short (less than an hour), but, I decided on argon because water temps will be in the 40s (andn colder) here this winter and to be honest, being a tall, skinny guy I start to get cold when the water gets below 55, despite dryuit, dry gloves and LOTS of underwear (leading to lots of lead). If the argon helps at all it will be well worth it for me espicially on chilly winter double or triple boat dives (wreck and scallops all winter long). Afterall for us divers in the NE, the only time the vis gets good is when the water gets cold.

Thanks again for the help!

[omar]

Pug's setup is the one recommended by GUE. I also use it.

Open water DIR is to use the 6 cf bottle on a belt loop large enough to slide over the D-ring on the left hip and to use a bungee to hold it up close to the backplate on the belt. I tried it and it worked fine as well.

omar

[DocRCH]

I do agree that purging your drysuit with Argon before a dive is much more efficient in retaining heat. Argon is heavier than air, so when you put it in, it tends to sink towards your feet. What we do is overinflate the suits, then squat and "burp" it through the neck and repeat. This allows for most of the gas in the drysuit to be Argon. I use air in my 6' inflator bottle. The amount that is added is a small fraction of the total in the drysuit. To add a small fraction of Argon to a large quantity of air does not give the same results. The only"problem" as I see it is that you get quite hot before you get into the water.

Robert:doctor:

[Scubaroo]

Does anyone have any good pictures of the "wreck mount" argon mounting that there's pictures of on the WKPP website? There's only pictures of the mounting with no regulator attached, so the hose routing is left up to the imagination. Unfortunately, George's physique in the photos is not. :rolleyes:

[ericfine50]

Go to www.divetekadventures.com and look under the "technical" section - you will see a link for the argon mount. I hear Halcyon is had a wreck mount style at DEMA this year.

Eric

[Scubaroo]

But how does the hose routing work? The regulator is on the bottom of the cylinder - does the hose route forward or aft of the cylinder? Just trying to picture the hose connected to a drysuit, and I think it's something I need to see.

[Uncle Pug]

Scubaroo once bubbled...
Just trying to picture the hose connected to a drysuit, and I think it's something I need to see.
Here is what I use Ben... I have it mounted in a loop on my backplate and held there by a bungee... the regulator is facing forward and slightly inward and the hose routes straight up to my valve. This is very discreet and tucked away... so much so that it is hard to see in my profile picture but behind the 70 ft bottle is a tiny speck of yellow... that is my argon bottle.
The photo attached shows things a little clearer... in use the regulator points inward more.

[ericfine50]

It runs from the valve under the waist strap to the DS inflator. It is not in the way and I don't notice it at all. Runs like UPs, but just lower.

ERic

[mddolson]

I elected to make my own aron mount.
It's similar to Uncle Pugs, but I sewed it from 1 inch nylon strap from fabric land.

The tank is an old stell O2 bottle, with the valve machined to accept a standard scuba regualtor o-ring and 1 st stage.

Mike D

[Scubaroo]

Dude! Suicide hooks! Haven't you read Deep Descent? :out:

[Uncle Pug]

ericfine50 once bubbled...
It runs from the valve under the waist strap to the DS inflator.
I do not have to run my hose under the waist strap.

[ericfine50]

Both styles work very well. In the end, it is up to you.

Enjoy
ERic