Ontario: Diving Industry

Master Chief · Oct 23, 2002

Hello

I've been around the diving industry in Ontario for almost 27 years now and in the last few have seen quite a number of dive shop businesses who have been around for many years shut down. I have to ask, do you think the diving industry in Ontario has become so bad that there's no money to be made on equipment sales? has the developemnt of on line sales hurt the mom and pop dive shop business and have the events of the last two years caused divers and potentially new diver candidates to stop spending, traveling and furthering ther diving education?. I also wonder about the certifying agencies, have there rates been raised to high that its turning diver and instructor candidates away, after all doesn't one feeds on the other. When I talk to peaple about diving one or two of these topics always flames up.

Master Chief

Butch103 · Oct 23, 2002

Master Cheif...do a search on the board and I think you will find in the various threads that online is affecting the smaller shops. If only in the fact that they can retail the product much cheaper than the LDS. I also see in some dive shops less and less variety of gear...why? I suppose from my very limited knowledge is that the gear companies are requiring the LDS to carry their full lines of gear and substantial minimum orders.........:boom:

Ontario Diver · Oct 23, 2002

Why are LDS's in Ontario having problems?

1) It is a summer only sport.
2) Massive hit to number of people vacationing south of the borders
3) US/Cdn exhange rate is making keeping inventories unprofitable.
4) Courses are becoming too expensive (OW crew pack - $80 (??), class/confined $300; mask/snorkel/fins/boots $150, open water cert dives $250, equipment rental $120) I guessed on the prices but it ends up close to a grand to learn to dive up here.
5) We don't have a diving culture either.
6) Most LDS's are too small to develop buying power (there are no store chains)

Just some ideas.

wetman · Oct 23, 2002

You know, i think that diving doesnt get nearly the attention it deserves in ontario. Its absolutely fantastic in the kingston area. Yet, you bring that up and it shocks people to find out about all the shipwrecks we have here and then you tell them what the vis and temperature is like in the summer and they're even more shocked. I really think someone somewhere should try to get the concept of diving in ontario to be a bit more mainstream. That would help everyone involved.

I dont think the courses are necessarily too expensive - i would think it weeds out those who may not be too serious about it. But it certainly has dampened the desire of several of my friends after i've got them all pumped about it. Maybe they just werent pumped enough.

steve

Rooster1 · Oct 23, 2002

Master Chief once bubbled...
Hello

I've been around the diving industry in Ontario for almost 27 years now and in the last few have seen quite a number of dive shop businesses who have been around for many years shut down. I have to ask, do you think the diving industry in Ontario has become so bad that there's no money to be made on equipment sales? has the developemnt of on line sales hurt the mom and pop dive shop business and have the events of the last two years caused divers and potentially new diver candidates to stop spending, traveling and furthering ther diving education?. I also wonder about the certifying agencies, have there rates been raised to high that its turning diver and instructor candidates away, after all doesn't one feeds on the other. When I talk to peaple about diving one or two of these topics always flames up.

Master Chief

online shops have hurt the mom and pop business
solution......there is a paradigm shift in the world of business from time to time and the internet being one (if not the biggest of them) has definately changed the way many of us online folks live and shop, there is more information and more choices right on our desktops. So if mom and pop want to stay in the game then they have go with the shift and get savy quick and get themselves online with their business or get out of the game

Groundhog246 · Oct 24, 2002

Ontario Diver once bubbled...
Why are LDS's in Ontario having problems?

>1) It is a summer only sport.
For some, I missed Feb & March this year and only one dive in January. Been in every other month. (WET)

>2) Massive hit to number of people vacationing south of the >borders
Yep, but not sure how much that effects equipment sales.

>3) US/Cdn exhange rate is making keeping inventories >unprofitable.
A lot of gear does not come from the US, We have made in Canada gear and many European brands as well as the Asian equipement. I have been in too many shops with a very limited selection and you can't sell what you haven't got.

>4) Courses are becoming too expensive (OW crew pack - $80
>(??), class/confined $300; mask/snorkel/fins/boots $150, open >water cert dives $250, equipment rental $120) I guessed on >the prices but it ends up close to a grand to learn to dive up >here.
I don't even know what an Open Water crew pack is. I spent about $450 on mask, fins, snorkel, boots and wieghts. Another $40 for the manual, $150 for the class/pool, $325 for the OW, including gear (wetsuit, BC, regs, air, etc), all food and 2 nights accomodations, with a staff diver for every buddy pair. So a total of $965, so you're right on the Grand. On the other hand, how much would it cost for green fees, equipment (rental?) and instruction to learn to Golf and that season is at least as short as diving.
Now that I've bought all my gear, my only cost is gas to the dive site and the occasional air fill (I get free fills at my LDS).

>5) We don't have a diving culture either.
That is probably the truest statement and a big reason.

>6) Most LDS's are too small to develop buying power (there are >no store chains)
There are a few "multi" store operations. My LDS is one of a group of three. I'm not sure bigger chains would be better though. In most categories the "big guys" just move product out the door. Take it somewhere else for support, repair, etc.

Just some ideas.

I think the online sales are having an effect. No way can a retail storefront survive on the same markup an online or mail order company can. Just the difference in property taxes is huge. Of course, I haven't figured out how to download online air yet.

So if the LDS disappears, then we have a problem. Perhaps we should prepare for $15 or $20 fills, if they don't have equipment sales to pay the freight.
Of course, while a couple of local shops have closed in the last few years a couple of new ones have opened too.

Groundhog246 · Oct 24, 2002

Ontario Diver once bubbled...
Why are LDS's in Ontario having problems?

>1) It is a summer only sport.
For some, I missed Feb & March this year and only one dive in January. Been in every other month. (WET)

>2) Massive hit to number of people vacationing south of the >borders
Yep, but not sure how much that effects equipment sales.

>3) US/Cdn exhange rate is making keeping inventories >unprofitable.
A lot of gear does not come from the US, We have made in Canada gear and many European brands as well as the Asian equipement. I have been in too many shops with a very limited selection and you can't sell what you haven't got.

>4) Courses are becoming too expensive (OW crew pack - $80
>(??), class/confined $300; mask/snorkel/fins/boots $150, open >water cert dives $250, equipment rental $120) I guessed on >the prices but it ends up close to a grand to learn to dive up >here.
I don't even know what an Open Water crew pack is. I spent about $450 on mask, fins, snorkel, boots and wieghts. Another $40 for the manual, $150 for the class/pool, $325 for the OW, including gear (wetsuit, BC, regs, air, etc), all food and 2 nights accomodations, with a staff diver for every buddy pair. So a total of $965, so you're right on the Grand. On the other hand, how much would it cost for green fees, equipment (rental?) and instruction to learn to Golf and that season is at least as short as diving.
Now that I've bought all my gear, my only cost is gas to the dive site and the occasional air fill (I get free fills at my LDS).

>5) We don't have a diving culture either.
That is probably the truest statement and a big reason.

>6) Most LDS's are too small to develop buying power (there are >no store chains)
There are a few "multi" store operations. My LDS is one of a group of three. I'm not sure bigger chains would be better though. In most categories the "big guys" just move product out the door. Take it somewhere else for support, repair, etc.

Just some ideas.

I think the online sales are having an effect. No way can a retail storefront survive on the same markup an online or mail order company can. Just the difference in property taxes is huge. Of course, I haven't figured out how to download online air yet.

So if the LDS disappears, then we have a problem. Perhaps we should prepare for $15 or $20 fills, if they don't have equipment sales to pay the freight.
Of course, while a couple of local shops have closed in the last few years a couple of new ones have opened too.

taz22 · Nov 7, 2002

You have posted an interesting thread. I have a few things that I wish to share:

1) I just took my PADI OW certification this year. It wasn't until sumebody introduced the thought of doing scuba diving that I ever even considered doing sop. Even with growing up on the St. Lawrence River as a kid and still to this day having a cottage on the river.

Consider asking a freind if they would consider taking up diving.

2) You get what you pay for, sure some deals on Ebay are great, but I think safety is a concern when diving. therefore, I prefer to buy from someone I know and trust and I think the local store where I took my course is the place to start.

3) We should support our local dive shop wherever we might be, they are the ones with the fillings stations, the ones with local knowledge etc etc.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth!

Firefly · Nov 14, 2002

We have used both online and dive shops, sometimes it is hard to find a LDS that works for you, all of the ones in my area basically cater to tropical holiday divers,PayAndDiveImmediately, and the staff often don't seem to be divers or dive locally...(it is too bad because they have lost the business of two divers, who since then have spent thousands on gear), so when we need something in a rush we order online...but when we don't, we drive 2 hours to a dive shop in ontario where we always get treated well, the staff all dive and seem to be really happy spending time explaining things to you and there isn't the standard "dollar signs" flashing in their eyes...we have found a dive shop we like and therefore make the effort to go there when we can.....hopefully these kinds of shops can survive.
:wavey:

Ontario: Diving Industry

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