Near Accident in Belize recently

[sytech]

I was recently on Caye Caulker in Belize and experienced the following on my second dive of the morning as related to my friends by email:


"So there I am at about 15-20 or so feet just dangling in space waiting for the 3 minutes to finish my safety stop so that I can surface. There are several divers hanging a few feet above me also doing their safety stops. Suddenly I hear this roaring sound and I look up and see a shadow which was the outline of the dive boat which was cruising right above us. Had anyone lost control of their bouyancy they could have shot to the surface and cracked their head into the hull of the boat or much worse. The boat had a double prop engine which was running. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

For obvious safety reasons, the boat should have been nowhere near us but several hundred feet away and without his engines running. I gasped when I saw and heard the boat right above me and my gasp apparently added some buoyancy to my lungs and I started ascending a bit. I pulled on all 3 of my dump valves to make sure there were no residual air bubbles in my BC and I exhaled which allowed me to descend several feet and be out of range of the idiot who was operating the boat.

I swam laterally to make sure I was away from the boat and surfaced about 35 feet in back of it but the ocean was a bit rough and I didn't want to be anywhere near those propellers. One engine was still running though. I kept yelling to the crew to shut the engine off and they finally did. When I boarded the boat I forcefully asked the "captain" why he was cruising over a dive area and more importantly why did he not shut off his engine. He gave me some lame excuse but acknowledged that he had made a mistake.

He had made a very serious mistake which could have had tragic consequences, particularly for the 4 divers who were above me and closer to the hull of the boat. Strangely yet predictably no one on board mentioned anything about this incident. I am always amazed at how timid people can be in these situations".

When I got back to the dive shop I told the owners what had happened and they were appreciative that they were informed. Their boat operator was completely reckless and could have caused a disaster.

We ultimately have to be responsible for what happens to us when diving but we have to be alert to reckless fools like this boat operator and speak out when something like this happens.

Sy

[tstormdiver]

I had something very similar happen while on a live aboard in the Bahamas. On our group's next to last dive of the trip, we were all hanging out on the mooring line for our safety stop, A speed boat passed directly overhead at full speed, even though our boat had both the Trident & Alpha flags flying. When we got back on board we were told that the captain & crew sounded the vessel's horn, waved & shouted at the boaters, but to no avail. The pilot of the speed boat deliberately passed close to the live aboard vessel in a threatening manner. It was a good thing that we were all on our safety stop & had the mooring line to hang on to. Unfortunately the Bahamas have no dive flag distance laws. It's dive at your own risk. Most of the boaters there are respectfull enough to keep at a safe distance, but that a few idiots like to make trouble for divers. It was definately a wake- up call for us after a very good week of diving.

[james croft]

I was on a small boat, about a 19 footer. The boat was a small aluminum deadrise with a 70 HP outboard. We were diving in current. I was on the upstream side of the boat and we were quartering the current heading upriver. The captain told me to enter the water. I backrolled off the side of the boat and the current pushed me under the boat and my tank hit on the keel with a resounding thunk. All of a sudden the captain guns the engine and drove over top of me. I covered my head as I thought I was going to get cut up, but the prop missed me by inches. The propwash blew the mask of my face and spun me around. I popped up behind the back off the boat. When I later informed the Captain that he had almost ground me up, he made the comment along the lines that close only counted in horseshoes and hand grenades. #%&*@!!.

[beautybelow]

I was recently on Caye Caulker in Belize and experienced the following on my second dive of the morning as related to my friends by email:


"So there I am at about 15-20 or so feet just dangling in space waiting for the 3 minutes to finish my safety stop so that I can surface. There are several divers hanging a few feet above me also doing their safety stops. Suddenly I hear this roaring sound and I look up and see a shadow which was the outline of the dive boat which was cruising right above us. Had anyone lost control of their bouyancy they could have shot to the surface and cracked their head into the hull of the boat or much worse. The boat had a double prop engine which was running. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

For obvious safety reasons, the boat should have been nowhere near us but several hundred feet away and without his engines running. I gasped when I saw and heard the boat right above me and my gasp apparently added some buoyancy to my lungs and I started ascending a bit. I pulled on all 3 of my dump valves to make sure there were no residual air bubbles in my BC and I exhaled which allowed me to descend several feet and be out of range of the idiot who was operating the boat.

I swam laterally to make sure I was away from the boat and surfaced about 35 feet in back of it but the ocean was a bit rough and I didn't want to be anywhere near those propellers. One engine was still running though. I kept yelling to the crew to shut the engine off and they finally did. When I boarded the boat I forcefully asked the "captain" why he was cruising over a dive area and more importantly why did he not shut off his engine. He gave me some lame excuse but acknowledged that he had made a mistake.

He had made a very serious mistake which could have had tragic consequences, particularly for the 4 divers who were above me and closer to the hull of the boat. Strangely yet predictably no one on board mentioned anything about this incident. I am always amazed at how timid people can be in these situations".

When I got back to the dive shop I told the owners what had happened and they were appreciative that they were informed. Their boat operator was completely reckless and could have caused a disaster.

We ultimately have to be responsible for what happens to us when diving but we have to be alert to reckless fools like this boat operator and speak out when something like this happens.

Sy

I didnt see any mention of whether you were on or near a marked mooring line or if the divemaster/dive leader or anyone floated a diver down sausage during the safety stop.

[Ocean One]

BeautyBelow asked my question.
Also, please don't be afraid to let the rest of us know what dive operations you were with. We may wish to avoid them if they are that careless and uncaring aboput their customers. Maybe when they have none they'll wonder why!?!?!?!?!?!

[tjmills]

Not to dispute your account but I would also like to know if you were near a buoy or marked line or did anyone blow a sausage during the safety stop?

You said you were in rough seas which would require the boat to be moble unless they were tied to a line. Its always a good idea to mark yourself especially if the boat is not tied off and you are ascending in open water.

I wasn't there obviously but before someone calls for a boycott of the Op .....

[scubadobadoo]

I agree with TJmills. Don't chop any heads off yet. This is pretty common if you were hot dropped and then picked up in another spot. Sounds like the Captain may have had to move for some reason...?

[drbill]

I've had boats cruise 10 ft overhead while diving in the roped off confines of our Casino Point Dive Park, not to mention a few near misses elsewhere along the coast. I expect such idiocy out of "weekend warrior" boat operators in southern California (who have no clue what an alpha or dive flag mean), but certainly not from the captain of a dive boat. Yikes!

[beejw]

There was an incedient in Hong Kong, in mid 2004 when a diver was struck and subsequently killed when he surfaced right in the path on an oncoming inflatable catamaran, called a zap-cat. even though he was diving within the specified distance of his dive buoy, the boat ignored this, which is illeagal in Hong Kong.

it was later established that he did not deply a SMB when doing his safety stop. This accident called for a serious review of boating practices in hong kong and thankfully the police now do a much better job of prtecting divers, but i canno stress the importance of deploying an SMB when doing a free asscent.

just curious, were you using an SMB or were you on a permanent moring line?

[sytech]

I didnt see any mention of whether you were on or near a marked mooring line or if the divemaster/dive leader or anyone floated a diver down sausage during the safety stop.

The answer to the above is "no" and "no".

[sytech]

I think that "careless and uncaring" and "reckless" are not infreqent, especially in developing countries. I've been to Central America over 30 times and my biggest fear there is not an earthquake or a mugging. It's the drivers. They are nuts. "Fatalistic" is how they characterize it.

So it is with many of their boat "captains" and how they operate. "Caveat emptor" with all of these dive operations. Makes no sense to single out this one because I have seen lapses in protocol or reckless behaviors in many places.

Even in Florida when the "divemaster" explains the dive plans for that day and makes a stupid remark like "and we had so many beers last night" etc. be extra vigilant. Alcohol plays a much bigger part in marine accidents than many people want to admit.

Sy







BeautyBelow asked my question.
Also, please don't be afraid to let the rest of us know what dive operations you were with. We may wish to avoid them if they are that careless and uncaring aboput their customers. Maybe when they have none they'll wonder why!?!?!?!?!?!

[ShoalDiverSA]

The answer to the above is "no" and "no".

If that's the case, then it's a bit much to expect the skipper to know where you are in the water. He should be cautious and should definitely kill the engines if you have surfaced near the boat (not sure if 35 feet is close, though). But it is extremely difficult to see divers' bubbles when sea conditions are rough.

Almost all of my diving is off RIBs in what can sometimes be harrowing conditions and I have started realising how difficult the skipper's job is in these conditions.

I would rather say that in this case, the fault for the near-miss lies rather with the dive leader/DM. To end the dive in rough conditions without some form of surface marker is irresponsible IMO.

In this case, I would certainly have insisted that he shoot an SMB, or I would have shot my own. My noggin is quite susceptible to propeller damage!

Cheers,

Andrew

[beautybelow]

I think it was the DMs responsibilty to mark his divers if the conditions were what I think you are describing. It is very hard to see divers when it is choppy from a boat. I do both, so I can say from experience that it's not always prudent for the capt to shut down the engine/engines just because there are divers below his boat.

[sytech]

This is a belated reply to your very reasonable request. I was an idiot not to mention them by name at the outset.

A thread running on the board today caused me to come back to this.

The Dive operation is on Caye Caulker, Belize and is called Belize Diving Services






BeautyBelow asked my question.
Also, please don't be afraid to let the rest of us know what dive operations you were with. We may wish to avoid them if they are that careless and uncaring aboput their customers. Maybe when they have none they'll wonder why!?!?!?!?!?!

[mfigaro]

As a very new OW diver who has been diving in Belize twice I have some questons. Some procedures there which seemed very normal to me seem to be considered by dangerous the board. I'd like to know the proper procedures so I won't let myself be exposed to unsafe conditions.

1. All my dives have been with a DM who took us just outside the reef (~60'). The seas were always somewhat subtantial ( 4' to 6' peak to trough). We descended and were picked up at the same mooring line. The various operators seemed to have things worked out as far as the procedure for sharing. Sometimes when we first got there we would stand off at great distance while waiting for another operator to pick up. When we ended the dive the DM would take us along the mooring line up to about 35'. We stayed there until the boat would show up and pick up the line. Then we would do our safety stop, still on the mooring line. Then we would surface and board. At times during some stops, I could hear exhaust sounds since the engines were still running, but at no time, during the safety stop were props ever engaged. However, during the stop, I could always look up and see the boat. But, we weren't directly underneath it because the boat was always on the down wind side of the line. Because of the slope from the pull of the boat, we were up wind. I always had the feeling this had all been worked at and that every operator knew who had divers down at which site, and at what time. Is there something unsound about this procedure?

2. The reporter of this incident stated that he swam laterally and surfaced, then notified the boat. Is it really sound procedure to surface if a boat in the area is doing unsafe things? Why not just stay down a little bit longer if possible? Why not deploy a signal if you have one instead?

3. If this boat was there to pick them up, how did it find them? They weren't near a mooring line and they floated no signal. I know this is ignorant but do they use GPS or something like that to know where to pick up? What is the usual procedure or is there one? The only boat dives I've ever taken have been in Belize. (Ambergris, Caye Caulker)

4. Do any of you carry signal devices (sausages and such) on resort dives? On the dives I've been on the DM has always had one. Apparently in the case, the DM did not.

Thanks,

[Leejnd]

Hello,

I wanted to mention that I just returned from a dive trip to Belize, in which I spent four days diving with BDS. Our experience with BDS was fabulous in every way. I just posted my dive reports in the Central America forum, if anyone wants further details on how our dives went with them.

It's very unfortunate that this member had this happen to him, and it sounds like he and others narrowly escaped disaster! The good news is, it would appear that whatever problems there were with the dive op back in November of last year are now gone. Every person we dealt with at BDS seemed very well trained, confident, competent and supremely safety-conscious. Based on our experience, either the employee who acted dangerously has been let go, or retrained.

Also, a few words on how we saw the dive boats operate in Belize. We did a few dives where the dive boats traded off using a mooring just outside the reef. In these cases, the engines remained on, but I never saw the props move (nor would there be a need for it) during the time there were divers in the water.

There were a few other dives that were essentially drift dives, although there wasn't much current. We'd exit the boat and descend, and the boat would then move off to the side. At the end of the dive, we would return to the drop-off spot and do our safety stops. During our safety stops I could sometimes see the boat, with its props occasionally moving, but it was always far enough away that there was no danger at all. Once we surfaced, the boat would come over to get us...naturally, with its props going, otherwise it wouldn't be able to move! And of course he would turn them off once he got close enough to us. In most cases, all in our group had already surfaced together before the boat came to fetch us, so there was no danger of being hit by props.

A couple of times, my husband and I ran low on air before some others in our group. When this happened, the DM sent us off to do a safety stop on our own, and he continued the dive with the others. When we surfaced, the boat came and picked us up, so we were on the boat to see how the captain handled the rest of the divers surfacing. What he did was watch the bubbles. He seemed amazingly adept at this -- he always knew where everyone was! He always kept the boat well away from where the divers were. When a couple of the divers came up to do their safety stops, he pointed to them and told us they were doing them. I don't know how he could tell, but clearly he knew what he was doing. When that couple surfaced, there were still a couple of divers at depth, but they were far enough away from these two that the boat could come pick them up safely.

That seemed to be the way of it. When you are doing a drift dive, the boat will have to turn on its props at some point to get to the divers who have surfaced. The divers who run loa sooner are sent to a location away from the divers still at depth to do their safety stops. And the boat doesn't come to pick them up until they surface. We were never anywhere near close enough to any other dive boats for there to be an issue about other divers.

I imagine piloting a boat for drift dives requires a lot of skill and training, as its inevitable that the boat will have to turn on its props while divers are in the water, and the captain needs to know how to get to surfaced divers without putting anyone in danger. Luckily we had a great captain throughout our trip.

[Charlie99]

Use a DSMB when needed.

The original poster (in Dec 2006) said that the water was rough. That makes tracking bubbles difficult for the Captain. A DSMB makes it more obvious where you are.

[Leejnd]

We always have something with us (we brought our own gear), but most of the other divers didn't, as most of them were vacation divers with rental gear. We never deployed it, because we could always see the boat, and the moment we would surface, the skipper would see us. The DM's had SMB's, but I never saw one deployed.

We definitely had some rough conditions right outside the reef, but these guys seemed to know what they were doing. The good news is that I haven't heard of any divers being lost at sea or chopped up by propellers recently! :)

[peterbj7]

Surfacing in the middle of nowhere without the protection of a fixed mooring line or SMB is reckless and stupid. Nonetheless, it's almost universal practice here in San Pedro, Belize. Scares me s%*t£#*s. I'm not sure whether this is directly relevant to your case though.

I was surfacing by a fixed mooring (with my boat attached) with a student recently when another boat that was manouevering to tie up at that mooring ran over the buoy, tangling its props in the ropes and hitting my boat, and getting its spinning props within inches of where our heads had just been (we got out of the way pretty quickly). An inexperienced boat captain operating in difficult conditions, not that that is any justification. I was rather surprised that when I reported this to his employer (a self-avowed top dive center in the area and well known to me) no apology was made and to my certain knowledge the captain involved was not questioned over the matter. I would have fired that captain, but I suppose different people have different standards.

People may know the story of Kirsty McColl, struck and decapitated when surfacing with her children in the Cancun area in a supposedly safe divers-only area. The captain was briefly detained but no action has ever been taken against him. Again, different countries, different standards..... Kirsty was a world-famous English folk singer.

So even if you believe yourself to be safe, behave as if every boat is out of control or driven by a homicidal maniac. DON'T think it can't happen to you.

[cancun mark]

the sound of a boat overhead is enough to make even a seasoned diver poo their wetsuit, but does not mean that anyone was in mortal peril.

If you want to aviod having boats overhead you on your ss, make sure that every diver launches a buoy. even iliiterate idiot captains dont want those wrapped round their props.

For what it is worth. I had great problems with this in Bali and after straddeling a 70 horse outboard to protect my students, I started to carry a 3 meter piece of rope, just to throw in propellers that threatened me just below the surface.

[Leejnd]

I was surfacing by a fixed mooring (with my boat attached) with a student recently when another boat that was manouevering to tie up at that mooring ran over the buoy, tangling its props in the ropes and hitting my boat, and getting its spinning props within inches of where our heads had just been (we got out of the way pretty quickly).

Wow. I assumed that the standard practice there was that only one dive boat would use a mooring at a time. On the dives we did in which there was a mooring, we never saw another dive boat attempt to tie up to one that was currently in use. That would seem to be common sense -- that if a dive boat is tied up to a mooring, there are DIVERS IN THE WATER. Duh.

A couple times we saw dive boats waiting well off in the distance, and once we were done and off the mooring, the other dive boat would approach and tie up. I can't even imagine the boneheadedness it would take to power on over to a mooring that had another dive boat attached to it. And I'm equally stunned that the dive op did nothing about it.



So even if you believe yourself to be safe, behave as if every boat is out of control or driven by a homicidal maniac. DON'T think it can't happen to you.

Given some of the stories I'm reading in here, that would seem to be an excellent policy!

I'm heading to Bali in September, and will be doing nine days of diving. I do hope I don't see the dangerous practices reported here...but I can assure you I will be on the watch for them!