GUE Tech 1 book and DIRF book

[cadet diver]

I was curious if anyone had read the GUE Tech 1 manual. I purchased a copy last week, and was pretty unimpressed. I have been reading the threads here for a while, and everyone seems to be such huge fans of this stuff. There really doesn't seem to be anything new or different about this class, with the exception of integrating Trimix 1 into it. In fact most of the manual seemed like fluff. The sections on diving technique seemed paraphrased or summarised. The fact that it was a PDF file and not an actual book, made it seem even more ghetto.

[boomx5]

I just started reading it today so I don't have any impressions as of yet. Personaly, I liked the pdf. format myself.

[Uncle Pug]

cadet diver once bubbled...
There really doesn't seem to be anything new or different about this class, with the exception of integrating Trimix 1 into it. In fact most of the manual seemed like fluff.
But the book and the class are two different things... and the good stuff isn't in the book.

[O-ring]

I found a few sections very good.

1. The whole nitrox section, complete with caculations...not dumbed down.

2. The fill equations, etc.

3. The standard mix sections were golden..much easier, IMHO, to use this system for depth ranges than calculate a "best mix" every time.

What do I know though...

[patmandu]

The book is a jumping off point and an outline for the course. While the book is extremely handy in some of the calculations and theory, it will prove invaluable to you after you have taken the associated GUE Tech 1 course.

If you have no intention of taking the formal class, and instead want to learn by reading books and the internet, then don't bother getting the Cave 1 course book, it has less content than the T1 book, but as usual the actual course with a 'real' instructor blows everything away.

You can't learn to dive by reading books, no matter who writes them.

The GUE manuals, paired with the courses are amazing.

Just my .02

[cadet diver]

True, and I am not trying to learn from just reading. My point is that if you compare the text to another manual, for instance the Naui Technical EANx book, there are really no differences in the substance. Except Naui does not say you have to be DIR. Even then the point is that there does not seem to be anything new in the techniques used.

The nitrox section while nice can easily be found in any other nitrox book. More to the point divers at this point probably have their nitrox certification.

I purchased the book out of curiosity. I am disappointed that it did not contain much information I already know. That said, I think it is a decent starting point, but no better than anything else out there.

But what do I know.

[cadet diver]

correction "did not already know"

[O-ring]

for instance the Naui Technical EANx book, there are really no differences in the substance. Except Naui does not say you have to be DIR
But doing it the DIR way is the point of the book. Maybe you should decide if you want to be DIR or not and then pick a manual.

I think patmandu is right in that the book is only a brief outline. I read the Fundamentals book two or three times before taking the class and I still couldn't do any of the propulsion methods correctly and had crappy buoyancy and trim. Without the class, you are missing 90% of the good info. The tech book talks about gas switches, etc., but you don't learn why they do them the way they do and how to correctly execute them without the class.

[patmandu]

The theory behind tec diving (physics physiology etc) is pretty standard among all of the tec agencies. I think that is why you are seeing similarities between the Naui book and the GUE book.

The GUE Tech and Cave 1 books do not teach you how to be a DIR diver. The teach the DIR diver how to implement the tech skills (as mentioned above they are similiar) into the DIR approach. If that makes sense.

GUE fundamentals is the course to learn how to dive DIR. This course will teach you what is expected from a buddy, how to swim properly (trim, buoyancy, etc), how to ascend, descend, hold stops, shoot a bag, etc. The cave and tech courses then take those 'raw skills' and teach you environment specific DIR/general diving rules and procedures (i.e. line running, communication, gas switching, buddy procedures specific to the environment). as well as the reasoning behind the DIR principles that you are working towards/learning.

Aside from the configuration and philosphy, there isn't anything special that a cave course or tech course will teach you deferintely than a course from another agency (as far as skills and such, although you will be held to a higher and more exacting standard in the GUE course).

That being said, you can't teach someone this stuff in a book. The book is for theory specific to the application. The course is for actual learning of the way it's done.

For example, take a stroll around the 'net, you'll find many different examples of what people 'think' is DIR and GUE condoned, 90% of those examples are wrong or misunderstood. You don't learn to dive by reading a book, just like you don't learn to be a doctor reading grey's anatomy.

[Uncle Pug]

Your opening salvo fired in the thread title... with the thumbs down combined with "GUE Tech 1"... is unfair and inaccurate.

You only bought a book dude! That doesn't make you qualified to judge the course. You have no idea what the course itself entails. And like I said... it isn't in the book.

[cadet diver]

Your right. But it achieved its purpose, and that was to fire up you guys up and get some intersting responses. I am not judging the course. I read the book, but havent taken the course. I am Naui certified and thats fine with me, I was just making the observation that the book, left a lot to be desired.

Which begs the question why not put "the good stuff" in the book? You still need to take a class to understand how to apply the theory.

Isn't GUE supposed to be interested in the "greater good"?

[MikeFerrara]

Because we talk about DIR so much I baught all the GUE manuals. They are ok and others are correct they offer nothing new. I'm not sure anyone said that they did though. I have also talked with several GUE trained divers and again found nothing new. I don't know that we need anything new. What I do think we need is consistant quality. From what I have been able to determine, at least so far, GUE has managed to provide that.

I would like to have seen some of their gas management methods and decompression methods in the text but they are totally void of this. I saw very little nuts and bolts so to speak. I even have their book on surveying and I can say the same for it.

I am not making any attempt to determine the quality of the classes based on the texts. I have seen good texts and lousy texts and good classes and lousy classes and I don't thing there is a correlation.

[detroit diver]

cadet diver once bubbled...
.....

Which begs the question why not put "the good stuff" in the book? You still need to take a class to understand how to apply the theory.

Isn't GUE supposed to be interested in the "greater good"?

No, IMHO GUE is interested in teaching people who want to DIR. That's not for the masses. Not yet, anyway.

I honestly think that they could do away with the books, but it helps those people that have no clue whatsoever about the subject. It's all taught in the class. (I'm speaking from a DIRF point of view here).

As a previous posted said, take the class to learn the information-both mental and physical.

[Uncle Pug]

cadet diver once bubbled...
Your right. But it achieved its purpose, and that was to fire up you guys up and get some intersting responses

Isn't GUE supposed to be interested in the "greater good"?
No, GUE isn't interested in the greater good... it is only interested in those who want DIR training and are willing to do what it takes to get it... which is more than just buying a book.

They don't publish the "good stuff" for a reason: those who haven't been trained to use the "good stuff" would go out and get themselves in trouble because they lack the skills necessary to use the "good stuff."

Are you interested in the greater good? Doesn't seem like it. Seems like you just want to indulge yourself.

[MechDiver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

They don't publish the "good stuff" for a reason: those who haven't been trained to use the "good stuff" would go out and get themselves in trouble because they lack the skills necessary to use the "good stuff."


This is what's wrong with DIR. And, IMO, until its fixed, the other 99.99% of us who aren't there, will not be.

And, with all due respect, horsepuckey.

Phil

[roakey]

MechDiver once blathered...
This is what's wrong with DIR. And, IMO, until its fixed, the other 99.99% of us who aren't there, will not be.
It's a free country, do what you like.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Roak

[Green_Manelishi]

That's part of the problem. Too many colors. Only ONE color
needed for dive gear: BLACK !!!

Remove that decision and folks will be free to concentrate
on USEFULness of dive gear.

[MechDiver]

roakey once bubbled...

It's a free country, do what you like.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Roak

Really? According to George you are not allowed to think, as that promotes "diversity".

I am far from anti-DIR. I AM far from the DIR attitude that you show in your quote above. Exactly the point I made to Pug.

Phil

[Uncle Pug]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Exactly the point I made to Pug.
You only think you made a point. You just told me about yourself is all.

[MechDiver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

You only think you made a point. You just told me about yourself is all.

Ahh, cats out of the bag. And yea, I learned quite a bit about you also.
Nice to have two divisions in life huh?

[roguediver]

What would life be like if every thing and every one was the same? Why does dive gear have to be all black? Why cant it be all bright neon hot pink? That is just plain mean putting a little kitty cat in a bag!!!! I think I made a point but then Im not sure what it was, or do I? Did I just tell you about myself, Im not sure? Hitler didnt wont any one thinking for thereself and he also was interested in the greater good of his country, Im glad we didnt fall in with cultish way. If a horse could talk what would he say, "Why are you leading me to water when I have a water in my stall. Horsepuckey? Hitler also had all the books burned that tried to teach new things "The greater good" Witches in there black masses. Slavo!!! duck, incoming!!!!!! well you got one thing right "mental" I just need to indulge myself.


HEY BUT WHAT DO I KNOW

With All Do Respect.
Jeff

[detroit diver]

roguediver once bubbled...
What would life be like if every thing and every one was the same? Why does dive gear have to be all black? Why cant it be all bright neon hot pink? That is just plain mean putting a little kitty cat in a bag!!!! I think I made a point but then Im not sure what it was, or do I? Did I just tell you about myself, Im not sure? Hitler didnt wont any one thinking for thereself and he also was interested in the greater good of his country, Im glad we didnt fall in with cultish way. If a horse could talk what would he say, "Why are you leading me to water when I have a water in my stall. Horsepuckey? Hitler also had all the books burned that tried to teach new things "The greater good" Witches in there black masses. Slavo!!! duck, incoming!!!!!! well you got one thing right "mental" I just need to indulge myself.


HEY BUT WHAT DO I KNOW

With All Do Respect.
Jeff

Care to change your nickname to roguesmoker?

[roguediver]

Take a deep breath there Detroit diver it was a joke and sorry about the grammer I didnt think this was an English class talk board.:mgun:

[ElectricZombie]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Really? According to George you are not allowed to think, as that promotes "diversity".

I am far from anti-DIR. I AM far from the DIR attitude that you show in your quote above. Exactly the point I made to Pug.

Phil


George tells people to do things a certain way because they DO NOT think about their gear and how to configure it. Diversity would not be a good thing if you were a mile into a cave.

[cadet diver]

Getting back to the original thread, the other book GUE touts, Doing it Right: the fundementals of better diving, is definately intended for the beginner diver. If you have been diving for a while and know the basic idea about DIR dont bother wasting your money on this book. It would be pretty good for someone who just got certified though.

Also about 40% of it is in the Tech 1 manual, and it is basically a catalog for Halcyon; go figure.

To head off most of the responses this will generate:
I do not think that you can learn solely by reading.
I have not taken DIRF.
I am not judging that class.
I am solely commenting on the book, and warning others against needlessly wasting their money.

[Uncle Pug]

cadet diver once bubbled...
I am solely commenting on the book, and warning others against needlessly wasting their money.
prove it.... add book to the subject line of your first post.

[cadet diver]

how do i do that?

[Uncle Pug]

.... go back to your first post and hit edit. Then add book to the end of the subject line.

[detroit diver]

cadet diver once bubbled...
Getting back to the original thread, the other book GUE touts, Doing it Right: the fundementals of better diving, is definately intended for the beginner diver. If you have been diving for a while and know the basic idea about DIR dont bother wasting your money on this book. It would be pretty good for someone who just got certified though.

Also about 40% of it is in the Tech 1 manual, and it is basically a catalog for Halcyon; go figure.

To head off most of the responses this will generate:
I do not think that you can learn solely by reading.
I have not taken DIRF.
I am not judging that class.
I am solely commenting on the book, and warning others against needlessly wasting their money.

Most of the things you read about DIR on the internet are garbage from people that think they know DIR without reading AND taking the class. You're doing everyone a disservice because you've never taken the class. The book is a supplement and not intended as a class by itself. And for those that "think" they know DIR, most of them will be way off. When I'm diving at a quarry, or shopping at my local LDS, I listen to people talk about DIR as if they're one of the instructors. Not one of them has any clue what it is about. Not one, unless they've walked the walk. And you haven't done that.

[boomx5]

cadet diver once bubbled...
I am solely commenting on the book, and warning others against needlessly wasting their money.

I wish I hadn't wasted $14.94 on the GUE tech 1 book. I mean, if only you would have warned us earlier I wouldn't have spent a whole $14.94 on the book. $14.94, $14.94, what am I going to do without my $14.94. I rely on experts like yourself to hold my hand and not let me get ripped off for my $14.94. I guess my only hope is when you write you book of infinite wisdom, your not going to rip me off for $14.94.:)

[sillygrendel]

I thought rogue divers post should have signalled the end of this thread...

Its one of the RULES!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[cadet diver]

Ok, so if most people do not know what DIR is, but what they say matches up with what the DIRF book says, which is straight from the authorities, what does that mean? I know its a supplement for the class, but from what your saying it seems like you have to be DIR to understand it.

And if you think you got your money's worth, more power to you. I am in the military and get paid nothing. I don't have $14.95 to spend on things that have no value for me.

[boomx5]

cadet diver once bubbled...
. I am in the military and get paid nothing.
I know this is off topic but I couldn't agree with you more. Oh and I was just given you a hard time.:D

[detroit diver]

cadet diver once bubbled...
Ok, so if most people do not know what DIR is, but what they say matches up with what the DIRF book says, which is straight from the authorities, what does that mean? I know its a supplement for the class, but from what your saying it seems like you have to be DIR to understand it.

And if you think you got your money's worth, more power to you. I am in the military and get paid nothing. I don't have $14.95 to spend on things that have no value for me.

Don't put words in my mouth. The problem is that what internet divers know DOESN'T match up with reality. The book is an introduction to DIR, and it's the real deal. And someone who WANTS to learn about DIR can take away enough REAL information to make a determination as to where their future interests may lie. If you're really DIR, you don't need the book anymore.

[Uncle Pug]

cadet diver once bubbled...
Ok, so if most people do not know what DIR is, but what they say matches up with what the DIRF book says, which is straight from the authorities, what does that mean?
It means that a lot of folks have read DIR stuff on the internet and some have bought the book (like yourself) and then they start parroting what they have read.... and it sounds like DIR to those who don't know any better... and it sounds like internet DIR to those of us who do.

Personally I didn't find the books to be worth what I paid.... and I paid a lot more than you did... and it wasn't even the final ready for publishing version... come to think of it... I guess what I have is sort of a collector's item... well... back to my point:

What I received from the classes was worth far more than what I paid... even counting the book $.

Take the DIRf if you get the chance... you won't be sorry.

[xoomboy]

As a fresh mind first exposed to DIR via this board (and bp/wings, and a whole lot of other cool stuff), I proceeded in a very logical manner to gain as much knowledge as I possibly could via the glorious Internet.

What I found was that, as UP said previously, there are a whole lot of people, websites, and documents out there that are regurgitating and twisting around this information. This is not out of the ordinary. You will find contradicting ideas, theories, BS, and a whole lot of misinformation on ANY topic that you are researching.

For example: "I think I'll educate myself on the history of martial arts." Here's a possible site you might find: Martial Arts Website (http://www.realultimatepower.net).

Now, obviously, if you were to believe what you read on this site, you would be completely misinformed. Wouldn't it be better to buy a book put out by a group like the United States Martial Arts Association, or another group that teaches how to perform those skills correctly? (It might not be the best example, but you get the point.)

The only way to get to the real story and maintain objectivity is to obtain it directly from the original source. Secondhand sources will always add in more and change things around, even if they don't mean to.

For me, buying the book was a no-brainer. It wasn't about learning how to be a DIR diver, I need to attend the DIRF class for that. One can't possibly think that you're going to get everything you need to know from a book that distills DECADES of applied theory, design, and experimentation into 175 pages. That's like reading a study guide for organic chemistry and then calling yourself a chemist.

Buying the book was about getting my hands on the facts, so I can discern the truth from all the crap that is out there.

I wouldn't call it a waste of money in the least bit.

Matt

[MikeFerrara]

My favorite part of the book is JJ'sdecription of the dive industry. I wish he would have bashed the manufacturers a litle though. I'm sure he understands that the agencies are not the big driving force for instructors and shops. The major force is EQUIPMENT SALES! Training has been tailored to better sell equipment not certifications. Before someone suggests voicing this opinion to GUE, I have (not specificly in reference to the book but the industry in general) and will again.

Agencies should never be bashed without an unfavorable mention of the equipment manufacturers.

I thought the book did a good job of introducing the concept. I'll keep my copy.

[DameDykker]

I just ordered the DIRF book. Primary to seen what I must change in my gear before joining a DIRF class and secondary to get it "from the mouth of the horse". Is this a mistake? Please, answers from people having taken the DIRF course. My set up now is completely conventional.

[detroit diver]

DameDykker,

The requirements for the class are a long primary hose and a bungee'd backup. That said, I HIGHLY recommend getting a backplate and wings (beg, borrow, or steal!!) if you're going to take the class. You won't do well without them, and you won't get everything you could out of the class. Bouyancy and trim and the main thrust of the class, and you just can't accomplish that with a traditional jacket setup.

Before I forget-no split fins.

Enjoy the class!!

Jack

[DameDykker]

Hi DD

I've tried to contact the "local" Swedish DIR people. They were running a class in September, which I couldn't participate in. The email mentioned a November class but they never answered my questions about gear configuration. Therefore, I wanted some solid information - hence the book - before approaching them again. And of cource it's also a matter of money. With new gear and the course. And I think I need to get familiar with the equipment before joining the class. Unfortunately I never seen anybody here with a DIR rig - so no borrowing. :(

[large_diver]

Dame,

I would agree with you on getting the gear before the class and getting in at least a few dives with it before the class. If you are going to spend significant money on the class, you don't want to waste time on gear familiarization issues when you could be learning/working on skills.

-LD

[WetDane]

Hej DD,

Jeg sender dig lige en email addresse i PM.
Den er til Rene i Danmark, han kan hjælpe dig med at komme i kontakt med den Danske og den Skandinaviske DIR liste.

Dane

[detroit diver]

WetDane once bubbled...
Hej DD,

Jeg sender dig lige en email addresse i PM.
Den er til Rene i Danmark, han kan hjælpe dig med at komme i kontakt med den Danske og den Skandinaviske DIR liste.

Dane

I hope that wasn't meant' for me! I can't read Danish but I can send it to a Norwegian friend of mine to translate if I have to!!

[Uncle Pug]

detroit diver once bubbled...
I hope that wasn't meant' for me!
DD is DameDykker... and the message was something about sending her an email address via PM so she could get in touch with a Scandinavian DIR list and get help from them... or something like that... I think :D

[DameDykker]

Right you are. Have you been taking danish lessons? Or is several langueges also DIR - in that case it's most likely only the aproved ones. ;)

And thaks to the guys for the PM info!

[Uncle Pug]

DameDykker once bubbled...
Have you been taking danish lessons?
There was enough in there I could figure out to get the basic idea...

Jeg sender dig lige en email addresse i PM.
Den er til Rene i Danmark, han kan hjælpe dig med at komme i kontakt med den Danske og den Skandinaviske DIR liste.

[O-ring]

Didn't seem to help with the translation though...thanks UP

[DameDykker]

O-ring

Eating a dsnish wouldn't help you any. The sorry piece of bakery sold under that name in the US is not within spitting distance of the real stuff (which by the way is called Wienerbread here :D )

If you ever come over the pond try the real stuff (and watch your waistline!)

[O-ring]

Now why did we insist on calling it a danish? I like your name a lot better. I'll use that at my next morning meeting and see what people's reaction is.

I am noticing a trend here lately...namely that our American versions of international products suck. The Aussie's wouldn't put out a fire with Foster's Beer and now our Danishes are substandard...do we make anything decent over here other than Big Macs?

[DameDykker]

I sooooo miss the good cajun/creole cooking!

And the pecan pies. Deep sight!

Oups! I think we're moving off-topic here.

Thanks to you guys I now have a good contact with the danish DIR crowd - such as it is these early days.:rolleyes:

[nickjb]

Rather controversial, I know, but i like what the Americans have done to pizza. Are sure there are a few angry Italians, though.

[wetman]

I think the hot krispy kreme donut has reached a level of perfection seldom achieved by anyone anywhere.
steve

[lucid]

..Did someone say hot krispy kreme doughnuts?

*grumble grumble*