Salvo Cans [Archive]

Adobo

January 3rd, 2007, 05:06 PM

If you were deciding between Salvo 21 Watt 14.4 Volt Remote Head Can light ( http://www.salvodiving.com/nimh_lighting ), which battery option (1 or 2) would you get and why? If this was not your only can light, would you decide otherwise?

I'm getting about 2 hours of burn time from the 4.5amp batteries. So one battery seems enough to do two medium length dives or one super long dive (like with doubles).

The thing I don't like with the big battery is if you get water in the cannister, you're light is out of commision until you fork over $250 for a new battery.

If I had another light, I would probably still get the two battery setup. I haven't run into a situation where I felt like the 4.5 amp batteries were inadequate. But then again, I try to get the batteries to full charge before I take them out.

dsteding

January 3rd, 2007, 05:30 PM

Adobo

January 3rd, 2007, 05:42 PM

I get about 2.5 hours off my 4.5 amp batteries. This is good for two dives for me. I think the only reason I'd get the 9a battery is for longish technical dives where I didn't want to push the limits of things (but, we do have backups . . . )

Seems like most ocean divers use the smaller cans, and cave types use the bigger battery.

I haven't taken any cave training yet so I really don't know how they figure out how much burn time they need on primary lights. But, even for people just starting out in caves (cavern, intro to cave, gue cave 1, etc.), 2 to 2.5 hours of burn time per dive seems like a lot.

And entry level tech dives seem the same way. 2 hours is a prettly long tech dive.

cerich

January 3rd, 2007, 05:49 PM

nope 2-2.5 hrs burn time isn't a whole lot even for a cave 1 student. You want enough power to last you the whole day diving (2-3 dives) without worry. Get a 4 hr burn time.

I use a 24watt 9 amp salvo.

Adobo

January 3rd, 2007, 06:13 PM

I can wait until I take some cave training but if you are feeling generous with info...

Can you not change batteries in between dives? Presumably, you will be doing surface intervals between dives anyway.

Incidentally, how long do cave 1 level dives last anyway? Probably shorter in Florida than in Mexico given that the FL caves are deeper. I was thinking that 1/6ths dives on something like double al80s probably would not last much longer than say an hour to an hour and a half.

Kevrumbo

January 3rd, 2007, 06:17 PM

rjack321

January 3rd, 2007, 06:21 PM

I can wait until I take some cave training but if you are feeling generous with info...

Can you not change batteries in between dives? Presumably, you will be doing surface intervals between dives anyway.

Not in MX, I was in the water 3+ hours for 3 dives.

You want a sufficient burn time to match with the amount of backgas you're carrying. So in AL80s in MX you've got 5 (or more) hours of backgas (160cf lasts a long time on 30-50ft dives), that's about how much burn time you want.

No you're not planning on using alot of that gas. But if you do need it, the last thing you need on top of that is a primary light failure too.

If you can't afford the huge battery, go for a 10W. That's is ok for MX since the walls reflect alot of light. Just bring 4+ hours of burntime, you'll need it.

rjack321

January 3rd, 2007, 06:22 PM

Incidentally, how long do cave 1 level dives last anyway? Probably shorter in Florida than in Mexico given that the FL caves are deeper. I was thinking that 1/6ths dives on something like double al80s probably would not last much longer than say an hour to an hour and a half.

Actually its 500 psi not 1/6ths. Makes a diff when you start with 2800.

But after that 70 min dive you debrief on the surface and do another penetration without getting out.

piikki

January 3rd, 2007, 08:31 PM

Some Light Head Length Specs:
Salvo 21W head with ballast in head.....9.3"
Salvo 21W head with ballast in canister.....7.75"
Dive Rite 24W head...4.5"

Why carry a "brick" on your forearm? Go with the smaller head Dive Rite Canister HID Light (save even more money and just purchase the 10W Canister model --that's all the light you need):
http://www.diveriteexpress.com/lights/

I have personally not decided whether I get 10W or more. Gotta wait for few more months to fit this purchase into my budget anyway…

However, this light seemed popular, and I was wondering what the benefits/downsides of each battery (and size of can) were. Is the run time and recharge time the main concerns? Different batteries do not have any known issues, for example wearing down quicker or so?

I would have thought 2 batteries would give me an option to have other recharging while I do a dive on multi-dive days. Or does everyone anyway end up getting extra batteries for their cans?

I thought the light head on this remote one was same size as on Salvo’s 10W ones. That is one thing that I would look into. I’d hate to have any bigger brick on my wrist than I have to. I am pretty set on Salvo - whichever model it will be

Adobo

January 3rd, 2007, 09:39 PM

I have personally not decided whether I get 10W or more. Gotta wait for few more months to fit this purchase into my budget anyway…

However, this light seemed popular, and I was wondering what the benefits/downsides of each battery (and size of can) were. Is the run time and recharge time the main concerns? Different batteries do not have any known issues, for example wearing down quicker or so?

I would have thought 2 batteries would give me an option to have other recharging while I do a dive on multi-dive days. Or does everyone anyway end up getting extra batteries for their cans?

I thought the light head on this remote one was same size as on Salvo’s 10W ones. That is one thing that I would look into. I’d hate to have any bigger brick on my wrist than I have to. I am pretty set on Salvo - whichever model it will be

Personally, I dive with some guys that use that use 10 watt halcyons can lights. I would say that if you are going to use the light primarily for open water diving, going with the 21 watt would be better. While 10 watt lights seem to work well in night dives (and presumably cave dives), they really kind of suck when it comes to open water use.

What I've gotten from this thread is that if you plan on doing cave diving, the longer burn time that you get with the 9amp battery is definitely a bonus. It makes the light well suited for both open water and cave diving. If you don't do much cave diving (or in my case, none), the 4.5amp battery gives you some redundancy and also allows flexibility (dive with one battery while the other is charging).

Kevrumbo

January 4th, 2007, 02:56 AM

I have personally not decided whether I get 10W or more. Gotta wait for few more months to fit this purchase into my budget anyway…

However, this light seemed popular, and I was wondering what the benefits/downsides of each battery (and size of can) were. Is the run time and recharge time the main concerns? Different batteries do not have any known issues, for example wearing down quicker or so?

I would have thought 2 batteries would give me an option to have other recharging while I do a dive on multi-dive days. Or does everyone anyway end up getting extra batteries for their cans?

I thought the light head on this remote one was same size as on Salvo’s 10W ones. That is one thing that I would look into. I’d hate to have any bigger brick on my wrist than I have to. I am pretty set on Salvo - whichever model it will be
I just ended up buying an extra battery for my can. . .

For me, since I'm always laying line for wreck diving, the enclosed head design of both the Halcyon and Dive Rite (MR11) 10W HID is much more rugged IMO, than any of the test tube designs of the Salvo HID Lights and can take a lot of abuse (i.g. inadvertently banging into ship's ladders, stanchions and pipes etc. while laying/reeling-in penetration line). I also thrashed a test tube head type once before as well, when I got rolled by a rogue wave in the Surf Zone of a Beach Dive. . .

TSandM

January 4th, 2007, 03:03 AM

I bought the 4.5 amp/dual battery Salvo, and my thought process was as has been described above: Two batteries, if one floods, I still have one that works; I can change out batteries between dives if need be. One can always be on the charger.

I have been disappointed by the burn time, though. I can't get two reasonable (1 hr) dives out of a battery. And running them until they quit is supposed to be bad for them. Of course, I also didn't know until recently that one is supposed to connect battery to charger and THEN charger to outlet, as the lights come with no user manual at all. So I may have caused my own problems.

I'm a small woman, with tiny hands, and the size of the lighthead on the remote ballast 21W Salvo is no problem at all, even when running a reel. And the light heads are sturdy. I don't take any special care of mine, and it has survived quite well.

dlegros

January 4th, 2007, 03:45 AM

Of course, I also didn't know until recently that one is supposed to connect battery to charger and THEN charger to outlet, as the lights come with no user manual at all.

Where did you get this from?

Any ideas if it applies to the Li-Ion systems?

Many thanks

Dom

*Floater*

January 4th, 2007, 09:29 AM

In Mexico we often did one long dive on sixths or thirds, debriefing on the surface and then another sixths or thirds dive on the remaining gas. So that can easily mean several hours in the water (not including debriefing) before you get a chance to change batteries. (Then lunch and repeat). And if there was a problem (say you got lost) that resulted in the use of all gas then you could easily spend over 3 hours in the water on twin AL80's.

I bought the li-ion light with 4.5h burn time (which got upgraded to 6h free of charge because salvo was out of 4.5h cans) and my thinking was it would last a whole day of heavy diving without having to worry about switching batteries, and I could always buy a spare battery if I felt I needed two of them (not that it would be cheap).

Ben_ca

January 4th, 2007, 12:45 PM

Where did you get this from?

Any ideas if it applies to the Li-Ion systems?

Many thanks

Dom

I thought there was a big difference with Li-Ion and Nimh.... The Li-Ion likes to be stored more empty than full doesn't it? and it likes the cold?

TSandM

January 4th, 2007, 12:52 PM

I got it from the Dive-Rite HID light owner's manual. I don't know if it applies to Li-ion systems or not.

rjack321

January 4th, 2007, 02:06 PM

Li-ion do like to be stored about 40-60% charged.

Batteries like moderate temps - I got crappy charges on my NiMH in MX. Had to unplug and let the battery cool and charge again.

lamont

January 4th, 2007, 02:24 PM

Li-ion do like to be stored about 40-60% charged.

Batteries like moderate temps - I got crappy charges on my NiMH in MX. Had to unplug and let the battery cool and charge again.

I had a crappy charge my first day in MX due to PEBKAC charging issues before I left and it died in Taj Mahal.

I've got a 9Ah Salvo Li-on 24W and with a single shot the charger pushed about 8.5Ah into the battery as measured by a watt meter without having to unplug and cool.

I've also read that the Nexcell chargers (which Halcyon has switched to for NiMH -- its just rebranded as Halcyon) are better for MX.

piikki

January 4th, 2007, 02:35 PM

both the Halcyon and Dive Rite (MR11) 10W HID is much more rugged IMO, than any of the test tube designs of the Salvo HID Lights and can take a lot of abuse (i.g. inadvertently banging into ship's ladders, stanchions and pipes etc. while laying/reeling-in penetration line). I also thrashed a test tube head type once before as well, when I got rolled by a rogue wave in the Surf Zone of a Beach Dive. . .

well, I want rugged, I am a banger... is the above statement correct nowadays? I don't want no test tube babies :)

lamont

January 4th, 2007, 02:40 PM

well, I want rugged, I am a banger... is the above statement correct nowadays? I don't want no test tube babies :)

so far the only light that i've busted was a 10W. my 18W and 24W lights have been fine.

YMM (clearly) V.

dlegros

January 4th, 2007, 08:21 PM

I got it from the Dive-Rite HID light owner's manual. I don't know if it applies to Li-ion systems or not.

Thanks Lynne (It is Lynne, isn't it?)

I might give it a try, not sure what difference it might make as Li-Ion packs have more on-board electronics to protect the cells.

Dom

Gillty

January 19th, 2007, 01:02 AM

I have recently acquired a pro peak charging system for my dive rite 21 watt. I had issues with the factory charger not charging the battery to a full charge. It seemed like it would charge to fast then the battery would get hot and not hold a full charge until I let it cool down and charged it again(this would take three or four cool down cycles). Now I can slow down the rate of charge (down to .1mA if I so choose) and my battery is now lasting 20 to 30% longer.

As an added bonus the pro peak charger displays the voltage reading of the battery at all times and you can charge NIMH, Li-Ion, or Ni-Cad batteries. It also trickle charges the battery. Which means as it approaches a full charge it slows things down to get every ounce of power out of the battery.

With this setup I can charge fast (and get the same charge as my Dive Rite charger) or slow (and get the most out of the battery). So if you are really up against the wall on dive time with your current battery this could help.

Gillty

hunter991

January 19th, 2007, 08:40 AM

As far as durability the salvo definately wins out in lights, actually it wins out in most categories. Mine gets no special treatment and just gets tossed into my dive bag mounted on my plate, and is has been going strong for along time.

Brent

NWGratefulDiver

January 19th, 2007, 09:50 AM

I just ended up buying an extra battery for my can. . .

For me, since I'm always laying line for wreck diving, the enclosed head design of both the Halcyon and Dive Rite (MR11) 10W HID is much more rugged IMO, than any of the test tube designs of the Salvo HID Lights and can take a lot of abuse (i.g. inadvertently banging into ship's ladders, stanchions and pipes etc. while laying/reeling-in penetration line). I also thrashed a test tube head type once before as well, when I got rolled by a rogue wave in the Surf Zone of a Beach Dive. . .
Hmmmm ... not sure what the current designs are like, but 3 years ago I worked for a Dive Rite dealer ... and I was pretty surprised at how often their HID lights were coming back to the shop for maintenance and repair. To be fair, DR customer service was very good and took care of the problems, but durability isn't a word I'd have used to describe their lights.

My 18W Salvo takes a beating ... those who dive with me can attest that I'm tough on gear ... and although I purchased a spare bulb when I bought the light, I've never had to use it.

Can't say the same for any other HID light I've ever owned ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Kevrumbo

January 19th, 2007, 04:52 PM

NWGratefulDiver

January 19th, 2007, 05:04 PM

Okay Bob, here's an objective test: clip-off both light heads to your chest d-ring, go into the Surf Zone and sustain a couple of face plants, barrel rolls & flips with mask/fins/gear ejecting everywhere along the Beach --and see which HID will light up. At the very least, the enclosed head should remain intact while the test tube in the other light head design will probably be shattered. . .
No need ... Barry pounded a nail into a board using his light head once ... then turned the light on.

In fact, he did that at DEMA a couple years back.

Objective or otherwise, I'm simply providing my observations. You can take them for whatever you think they're worth ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

rjack321

January 19th, 2007, 05:16 PM

Which model have you been using??

I have recently acquired a pro peak charging system for my dive rite 21 watt. I had issues with the factory charger not charging the battery to a full charge. It seemed like it would charge to fast then the battery would get hot and not hold a full charge until I let it cool down and charged it again(this would take three or four cool down cycles). Now I can slow down the rate of charge (down to .1mA if I so choose) and my battery is now lasting 20 to 30% longer.

As an added bonus the pro peak charger displays the voltage reading of the battery at all times and you can charge NIMH, Li-Ion, or Ni-Cad batteries. It also trickle charges the battery. Which means as it approaches a full charge it slows things down to get every ounce of power out of the battery.

With this setup I can charge fast (and get the same charge as my Dive Rite charger) or slow (and get the most out of the battery). So if you are really up against the wall on dive time with your current battery this could help.

Gillty

Kevrumbo

January 19th, 2007, 05:51 PM

No need ... Barry pounded a nail into a board using his light head once ... then turned the light on.

In fact, he did that at DEMA a couple years back.

Objective or otherwise, I'm simply providing my observations. You can take them for whatever you think they're worth ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
And I'm telling you my real life experience here on the Beaches of So. Cal, anecdotal as it may appear. . .

If I could afford it, I would have the enclosed 10W head for OW Beach and Wreck Diving; and the 18W to 24W test tube type for Cave Diving.

NWGratefulDiver

January 19th, 2007, 06:09 PM

If I could afford it, I would have the enclosed 10W head for OW Beach and Wreck Diving; and the 18W to 24W test tube type for Cave Diving.
Good point ... the appropriate choice of light depends a great deal on the conditions under which you'll be using it. But that doesn't make one style inherently more dependable or durable than another.

As an example - an enclosed-head 10W design that uses a Welch-Allyn bulb will be inherently less shock-resistant than a test-tube design using a Britestar bulb ... not because of the design of the light head, but because the bulb in the former is more susceptible to shock damage than the bulb in the latter.

My Terkel is an enclosed head 10W design ... and I've broken the bulb in that light twice by accidentally dropping the light head. I've yet to break the bulb in my Salvo, even though I've done the same thing to it on numerous occasions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

GreenDiverDown

January 19th, 2007, 06:11 PM

I also thrashed a test tube head type once before as well, when I got rolled by a rogue wave in the Surf Zone of a Beach Dive. . .

Which design... Brightstar or WA?

Gillty

January 19th, 2007, 08:03 PM

rjack,

Are you talking about model of light or charger?

Kevrumbo

January 19th, 2007, 09:19 PM

Which design... Brightstar or WA?
Old Halcyon Pro 4, 10W Open Reflector with enclosing Test Tube --a Welch-Allyn bulb with wire lead extensions soldered on. . .

Both test tube and bulb shattered after a rough transit out of the Surf Zone onto the Beach (i.e. "The Monastery Crawl"). Ballast was probably saltwater compromised as well --sent the light head back to Halcyon for repair. Later sold the Pro 4 and purchased the enclosed head Helios 4.5 10W NiMH model. . .

Doubles

January 20th, 2007, 11:35 AM

My Terkel is an enclosed head 10W design ... and I've broken the bulb in that light twice by accidentally dropping the light head. I've yet to break the bulb in my Salvo, even though I've done the same thing to it on numerous occasions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I use the Dive Rite (MR11) 10W HID and did the same thing, dropped the light head and my wallet got lighter the next day. I like the light though and the burn time is great. The bulbs could just be more durable. The light heads on the salvo's are bigger, but they don't seem to break - at least not when dropped

Cheers

-s

TSandM

January 20th, 2007, 12:18 PM

My Salvo has fallen 4 1/2 feet onto concrete (didn't really get it clipped off, as it turned out) and survived that. I was impressed, as well as profoundly and utterly relieved :)

Falco

January 21st, 2007, 06:28 PM

My Salvo has survived countless shore dives rocky entries like this one without skipping a beat.

rjack321

January 23rd, 2007, 01:06 AM

rjack,

Are you talking about model of light or charger?

Sorry, the charger. The diverite ones I currently have are starting to poop out on me and they want ~$85 for a new one.

Oceanus

January 23rd, 2007, 04:55 PM

Nice HID article for the beginner (http://www.safecavediving.com/equipment.htm)

Note that there have been a few new products since the article was written

piikki - FYI, Sartek (http://www.sarind.com/) is in Medford, NY while Salvo (my preference) and Dive Rite are in FL. The point being, you might get faster service from Sartek because they're 'local'.

A basic Salvo built 10W HID for $500 (http://www.divers-supply.com/Sea-Elite-10-Watt-4-5-amp-HID-Canister-Light-SP-p/sal0001.htm)