Scooter of your choice [Archive]

Master Chief

October 29th, 2002, 02:12 AM

Hello

Thanks guys for the replies. Now my understanding is that the GAVIN is more suitable for cave divers etc, Wouldn't you get prop wash riding behind it. I kind of like the exploration type Farallons which you ride on. I've also heard the the Gavin uses Mako motors and that there windings have been increased for improved tork. Secondly I also heard that the Mako's multy slip clutch system is a poor design in the Gavins were as the Farallon uses a direct drive 24 and 48 volt general electric motor which is easly serviced at any electric motor repair center and has no clutch to wear down. Could it be that there is a love for the Gavin and Emmersion basically on there awsome H bomb look?. Your comments welcomed and appreciated.

Master Chief

Uncle Pug

October 29th, 2002, 02:59 AM

Master Chief once bubbled...
the Farallon uses a direct drive 24 and 48 volt general electric motor which is easly serviced at any electric motor repair center and has no clutch to wear down.
What happens Master Chief when you get line caught in the prop of a Farallon with no clutch? Or a part of your anatomy?

As for the prop wash from a Gavin... it doesn't hit you if you are using it correctly.

But it sounds like you are sold on the Farallons anyway so...

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 04:15 AM

You guys down in Florida probably know Ritigars place in Live Oak

I think he is selling the Emmersion. I am not sure. but it seemed to be what everybody was buying down there when i was there.

what do you think of the Emmersion [if that is the one he is selling]

dmdalton

October 29th, 2002, 08:45 AM

I use my gavin for wreck, not cave;

Real quickly you are able to determine correct positioning, out of the propwash, in the slipstream caused by the scooter;

You present a smaller area to break the water with than a ride on;

You must have a clutch in case anything gets fouled;

The clutch is a $5 replacement part;

If you want you can get a "slippable without dammage clutch" for about $125;

The manufacturer (George Irvine) warrants the scooter for as long as you own it;

It will outperform any scooter out there;

BUT - A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still!

Your money, get what you believe will suit you best, you don't have to justify your purchase to anyone - except maybe your wife!

Dave D

wetman

October 29th, 2002, 10:08 AM

Anyone heard any more about the 2003 tow behind farallons and if they have a clutch or not?

steve

Master Chief

October 29th, 2002, 10:21 AM

Hi

Thanks again guys for all your comments. I think the Gavins are great scooter to, don't get me wrong here but I just find the Farallons better for long hauls and exploration. The new Farallon which is smaller and looks like the older MK5 will be available soon the handles are positioned on the rear of the unit so I guess there going for that cave diver deco bottle dragging market. As for getting lines caught in the Farallons, like any dive you prepair and position your gear befor you dive. Having a clutch or direct drive will not help you in a gear entaglement situation the damage is usualy done befor the props stop anyways and thats why Farallon installed a prop guard. One other thing to concider is that the Mako motor has many seals, o-rings and clipable plastic parts that tend to wear out and break down, were as the Farallon motors have two and the seals are positioned on the shaft assembly away from the motor so that if there is a leak it does not flood and blow the motor first thing.

Cheers

Master Chief

roakey

October 29th, 2002, 10:23 AM

Master Chief once bubbled...
Now my understanding is that the GAVIN is more suitable for cave divers etc...
Nope, you understand wrong.

Here’s a page to poke around, lots of pictures of Gavins being used in open water (San Francisco area):

http://www.baue.org/

This video on this page will show you that the prop wash goes beneath you:

http://www.gue.com/equipment/feature/gavin/feature.shtml

Also notice with the prop out in front, unlike the Farallon, your equipment won’t be swept back by the current into the blades and you can keep an eye on the blades. The Farallon requires you to do isometric exercises throughout the dive (hanging on, which expends energy then therefore burns gas) whereas the Gavin tows you, saving gas energy and reducing fatigue.

The Gavins were used extensively for the Britannic expedition:

http://www.gue.com/research/britannic/index.shtml (follow the “Gallery” link)

The only dissenting opinion, AquaTec, has referred to a Gavin copy (I’m assuming you meant “Silent Submersion”):

http://www.silent-submersion.com/

You asked, you got a unanimous NO for the Farallon and a yes for the Gavin (with one vote for a copy). Did you really want help with your choice or simply confirmation that you made the right choice (which you didn’t get)? This board is a wealth of information, but only if you use it.

Roak

roakey

October 29th, 2002, 10:32 AM

Master Chief once bubbled...
I think the Gavins are great scooter to, don't get me wrong here but I just find the Farallons better for long hauls and exploration.
Eight miles at 300 feet isn't a long haul and exploration? What does bottle dragging have to do with it? I don't care how much you "prepare", having the blades behind you is just asking for it to eat gear. This should be the first step of your "preparation": Getting the right scooter.

Obviously you just wanted confirmation. It's your money, go ahead and spend it the way you'd like. I just wish you hadn't wasted our time.

Roak

Master Chief

October 29th, 2002, 10:40 AM

Hay!

If you think your wasting your time go away don't contribute who cares. I'm taking every ones comments to hart and I appreciate everything every one has contributed. I havn't made up my mind yet but want to be darn sure that what I purchase is the right DPV for me. I ask confronting questions so that I get back information and ideas which maybe I never thought of. I don't do tech diving and my needs for a DPV are not such that some of the pros and cons will effect me.

Master Chief

Uncle Pug

October 29th, 2002, 12:44 PM

I will take you at your word... you have not made up your mind... and I will take the time to give you some more advice.

The Gavin used with the tow cord is very maneuverable... and easily turned in a tight circle with just slight pressure from one hand.

The Gavin will not require a buddy to help you carry it to the water or get it off the boat (though it is nice to have someone hand it down to you it isn't necessary.)

The Gavin does not have all the seals you seem to be concerned about... it has one ceramic seal.

Don't get puffy a Roaky... he is has a right to be grumpy... you asked the question and then want to debate every response that doesn't say get a Farallon (and that would be every response so far.)

roakey

October 29th, 2002, 06:54 PM

Genesis once bubbled...
Uh, what these guys be smoking over there?
You can save a bunch of money by getting a Tekna and join the crowd that has tales about how the thing wouldn't turn off at 200' and finally had to cut loose because it turned into a case of the scooter or the diver.

I've seen several of these stories over the last couple of years...

Roak

Genesis

October 29th, 2002, 06:59 PM

$3,500 for a piece of pipe, a couple of O-rings, a handful of batteries, a relay, reed switch and motor is a case of pure rape.

This is "affordable" according to GI, even by "tech diver" standards?!

Scubaroo

October 29th, 2002, 07:03 PM

Here's a price for a Farallon, from www.divesales.com:

Price: $3,995.00 + $95 S/H Ever think that there might be overheads, and R&D that goes into these things that needs to be recouped? Not to mention that they're hand-built, to order, not mass-produced.

Genesis

October 29th, 2002, 07:05 PM

that any of the OTHER prices were reasonable! :)

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 07:21 PM

How can a UV- Scooter be a copy cat? The Gavin is junk compared to the UV. I've rode both, I have taken both apart, and I own a UV-26. For those of you that can look past stupid statments take a look at both web sites and tell me which one is better engineered. Copy cat, seems to me that gavin is the one copying now. They changed their material over to HDPE, also changed to the tapered rear but are still stuck on the cheap mako handles and cheap pvc motor housing and connectors. Lets see, who's selling them GI. Who came up with the design, not him, why do you think its called a Gavin! UV scooters in my opinon are 10 times better built. Trust me I'm cheap and I researched the crap out of both and still chose the UV even know it was more exspensive. All BS a side they both copied the Tekna/Mako its just that Gavins left more of the crappy parts on.

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 07:34 PM

By the way Master Chief the guys that are telling you to vere away from Farallons are right. The ride on one's are real hard to stear the older tow behind ones the handles are in front of the propulsion part and are a tad easier to steer, a tad, but you can feel the propulsion pulling on your hands and god for bid if you have anything in your hand. Not quite sure on the brand new tow behinds, I would imagine they are alot easier to steer being that the handles are on the prop shroud. The other downfalls of Farallons are their motors which are noisy and burn alot of juice. Even the biggest lead acid battery type will only give you 60mins burn at 3/4 speed with doubles on. One of the new Farallons is clutched with a variable pitch prop like the UV and the Gavin. The other one I'm not sure about but I dont think its direct drive but what I do know from what I've read is there is only one speed, fast.

Genesis

October 29th, 2002, 07:41 PM

that direct drive with variable pitch would be the solution.

But propulsion underwater is not so simple as bolting something on a shaft and off you go. I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I've gone through some of this with boats, and what's intuitive is not always what works best.

Uncle Pug

October 29th, 2002, 07:41 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
[B]I own a UV-26.[B]
Why, we'd never have guessed :D

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 07:48 PM

Like I would be anymore surprised that you would own anything less then a cult vehicle. You guys would use your underwear for lift bags if he told you it was DIR.

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 07:49 PM

Oh wait I forgot to put the smiley face in there:)

Scubaroo

October 29th, 2002, 07:56 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
You guys would use your underwear for lift bags if he told you it was DIR. Too many holes I'm afraid :out: I need to start spending money on things other than scuba gear :D

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 08:09 PM

I have an interest in scooters so I find this interesting. I don't have one and have never even shopped around for one. but it would sure be nice on some of those deep wrecks

I have determained this by reading here

1 - You deffinetly want a tow behind.
2- Gorge Irvine makes the Gavin so for the DIR group there is no choices, and therefor the Gavin must be best.
3 - The Gavin might very well be the best there is, but knowing what I know about how DIR selects gear, I will continue to check out other scooters as well, which might very well lead me to the gavin

Now some questions
1 - Are there any other scooters besides Gavin that are DIR
2 - How about price I understand the Pharalon is very expensive compaired to the Gaving and others
3 - The Silent Submersion seemed to be all the rage in cave country when i was there in August, what is the story on them.
4 - what about some of the other ones out there, from the non DIR crowd

Aquamaniac

October 29th, 2002, 08:17 PM

In all of these post's, there has been no mention of the winding modifications that Gavin do to the DC stator windings. It is protected violently, and I have tried many times to find out what is done. As an ex motor-man (DC specialty!!) It interests me greatly. Is it Hype or is it good winding engineering.
I have asked a few people, and have been met with interesting responses (boy are they touchy about it) Perhaps I should buy one and pull it apart...........Or someone may already know (hint hint)

Dave

Uncle Pug

October 29th, 2002, 08:18 PM

AquaTec once bubbled...
I have an interest in scooters so I find this interesting. I don't have one and have never even shopped around for one. but it would sure be nice on some of those deep wrecks
...you are going to end up with a Gavin, Doug... and one of the originals (they are making an HDP one now too) because it is rated to 500fsw. The Silent Submersion and the HDP Gavins are only rated to 300fsw.

Of course you could paint it hot pink with yellow flames so no one will think you are a DIR fanatic sucking up to G3... but since you like deep... you'll need the ride that can do it.

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 08:18 PM

Hey Roakey can i ask a question. presuming that you do a lot of scootering in caves.

I don't know much about scooters or their use in caves

as for gas managment and redundency what happens when the scooter fails at your furthest point in.

is there redundency built into the scooter or do you cary enough gas to make it out without the scooter.

what is the advantage of a scooter in a cave if you cary all the gas to get out by swimming anyways, other than not having to swim.

Does any of this make since

fill me in please,

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 08:25 PM

There really isnt any others for tow behinds. Just UV's, Gavins, and Farallons. Mako's and Tekna's arent rated for any deeper then 180' so their kind of out. If your interested in scooters really cant go wrong with either the UV or the Gavin. Farallon's are out in my book due to noise, burn to much juice, harder to stear, and are painted aluminum (chips/dents).

andibk

October 29th, 2002, 08:25 PM

List,
I have two FARALLONS. I have one MK7 and a MK8 sitting in the shop. I have had the best customer service from Tom and the people there at Farallon. I did have a small problem that Tom has sent me whatever parts I needed free of charge. I find the ride alongs great diving wrecks in the ocean. I can mount a camera on top and also strap on 4 tanks on the bottom.

Bruce

Genesis

October 29th, 2002, 08:28 PM

a lot of scooters if you're cave diving...

You'd need redundancy between the two of you (buddy pairs), which means that you need enough capacity so that you never burn a scooter beyond some reasonable ratio (1/3rd?), or you have to tow (and/or stage) additional scooters...

Worst-case, you might have to be towed out by your buddy with a broken scooter behind you.

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 08:31 PM

UV's are rated for 400ft and have been used at depths deeper then 500ft.

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 08:36 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
There really isnt any others for tow behinds. Just UV's, Gavins, and Farallons. Mako's and Tekna's arent rated for any deeper then 180' so their kind of out. If your interested in scooters really cant go wrong with either the UV or the Gavin. Farallon's are out in my book due to noise, burn to much juice, harder to stear, and are painted aluminum (chips/dents).

Thanks for the run down what is the UV model, I am not a fan of Farallons simple from what i have heard as to the burn time and size.

PUG Said

...you are going to end up with a Gavin, Doug... and one of the originals (they are making an HDP one now too) because it is rated to 500fsw. The Silent Submersion and the HDP Gavins are only rated to 300fsw.

You are probably right PUG, tell me more about the 500 ft rated unit. or links to their site. we know 300 foot rating is almost useless

I know you have a Gavin, how is the burn time, what is the boyancy caracteristics, and the dry land weight.

I would like to take one to Bikini to do some penetration on the Saratoga.

I would have to rethink gas management,

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 08:39 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
UV's are rated for 400ft and have been used at depths deeper then 500ft.

give use a link to UV's

Uncle Pug

October 29th, 2002, 08:42 PM

andibk are you using your Farallons inside the wrecks you dive?

Aquatec... remember the video you watched on the Britannic?

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 08:42 PM

http://www.silent-submersion.com/
UV's are Silent Submersions but not rated to just 300

Aquamaniac

October 29th, 2002, 08:54 PM

Aquamaniac once bubbled...
In all of these post's, there has been no mention of the winding modifications that Gavin do to the DC stator windings. It is protected violently, and I have tried many times to find out what is done. As an ex motor-man (DC specialty!!) It interests me greatly. Is it Hype or is it good winding engineering.
I have asked a few people, and have been met with interesting responses (boy are they touchy about it) Perhaps I should buy one and pull it apart...........Or someone may already know (hint hint)

Dave

C'Mon, one of you must know something about scooter motor design!
Its one of the most critical components.
How can you draw a comparison without commenting on the type of rotor, number of poles, insulation class and type (enamel or glass), Air gap, bearing type, laminated poles or not (huge efficiency gains), Shunt or series wound, cumulative or differential winding, progressive or retrogressive winding.....(am I dribbling now) :D

Dave

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 08:59 PM

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
andibk are you using your Farallons inside the wrecks you dive?

Aquatec... remember the video you watched on the Britannic?

yes i remember....Gavins i am sure

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 09:10 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
http://www.silent-submersion.com/
UV's are Silent Submersions but not rated to just 300

Great site for information for the UV, the Gavin site posted was realy a GUE site with George simply saying get this one cause i said so.
it would be nice to see a good Gavin site.

Oh by the way I was playing craps in Vegas the other day with the owner of Farallon. he throws a good dice, and a very nice guy

roakey

October 29th, 2002, 09:22 PM

AquaTec once bubbled...
Hey Roakey can i ask a question. presuming that you do a lot of scootering in caves.
No I don't, I'm a weenie caver.

I've used Teknas and though I gotta admit they were fun, having the choice of hoisting yourself up on top (and doing isometrics throughout the dive) or having the prop wash hitting you seemed, shall we say, counterproductive.

The tow-behind solution was the typical forehead-slapping solution to the problem that DIR is famous for.

To whoever got upset that I called the SS a copy: It is. Since I don't have direct experience with both, I went no futher than that statement.

Roak

Master Chief

October 29th, 2002, 09:45 PM

Hi

Did I $$%% in some ones cornflakes?. I didn't mean to sound as if I was ticked at all you guys just that one fella who had to put his two cents in the wrong way. Farallon has been around for more years than any other scooter maker and I trust there ability to produce an efficent scooter. They use intricate mother boards with variable speed controls with more advanced electronic circut board reed relays. They don't use window switches to cut corners like the Gavin. They use a gear ratio sprocket to give you more tork with out wear on the motor. All in all I like the Farallon, but only love the look of the Gavin and Emmersion.

Thanks for your help

Master Chief

JamieZ

October 29th, 2002, 10:17 PM

AQUATEC,
Here is the link you were looking for. Dont be alarmed by the man in the speedo's. http://www.gavinscooters.com/

Here's another link that will help you find stuff on the internet. Works really well. http://www.google.com/

AquaTec

October 29th, 2002, 10:23 PM

tHANKS FOR THE LINKS DUDE

Master Chief

October 30th, 2002, 11:42 AM

Farallon USA, the recognized leader in Diver Propulsion Technology, is introducing two new models for 2003. The Mk2-X and the Mk2-XE are both tow-behind DPVs, similar to the earliest models produced by the company in the 1970s.

"We're responding to a market demand," said Farallon president Tom Deardorff. "Although our ride-on models, the Mk7, the Mk7-E and the Mk8 have been extremely popular over the last six years, there are a lot of divers who want a dependable, reasonably priced tow-behind vehicle with technical capabilities.

The Mk2-X was designed by Darren Tedder, Farallon's Director of Product Development."We're very fortunate to have Darren on our team," said Deardorff. "He probably knows more about DPVs, and Farallons in particular, than anyone else in the world."

The Mk2-X, a single-speed vehicle, and the Mk2-XE, with a variable pitch clutched prop, are based on the design of the Mk II and Mk III which were produced in the 1970's and 1980's. The body of the new model is made of aircraft-type aluminum. The units are wet pressure tested at the factory to a depth of 400 feet of sea water.

"It's a bit like Volkswagen did when they introduced the 'New Beetle'," Deardorff said. "It's got a retro look about it, but the technology is 21st century."

The Mk2-X is the ideal DPV for dive operators, liveaboards, and resorts to put into rental. It's easy to learn, gives the diver a real sense of excitement and adventure and is reasonably priced.

"By building the Mk2-X out of aluminum, we've stuck with our policy of making very robust machines that can withstand a lot of wear and tear. Yet, the unit is lightweight and easy to handle out of the water. It's neutral in salt water," said Deardorff.

Both the Mk2-X and the Mk2-XE are capable of speeds up to 2.7 mph (4.4 Km/hr). The typical burn time is one hour. The Mk2-XE can achieve an even longer burn time through easily-made adjustments to the variable pitch prop. Both units operate on a 24V battery pack and come with a fast charger which will recharge the pack in less than four hours.
News bulletin from Farallon

Tedder, who is an experienced cave and technical diver, has been a Farallon user for more than twenty years. He has restored several of the older Farallon models and has hundreds of hours of diving on them. "I like the ride-on DPVs for a lot of the diving I do," he said. "But there are certain kinds of dives where a tow-behind just suits my purposes better.

Many of my friends in the technical and cave diving community have said the same. After doing some market research, we discovered that there was an unmet need for a really robust, moderately priced, lightweight tow-behind. That was the driving factor in designing this new DPV. In the 70's and 80's the Farallon tow-behinds were considered the best, so we started with that basic design and brought it current in terms of the technology."

Farallon USA will introduce the new models at the DEMA fall show in late October in Las Vegas and begin shipping in January of 2003. The Farallon brand has been well regarded in the dive industry for more than thirty years. The company, based in metropolitan Atlanta, Georgia, supplies DPVs to recreational, military, commercial, and technical divers around the world.

Master Chief

roakey

October 30th, 2002, 04:12 PM

That’s nice. You can copy a marketing brochure.

It doesn’t matter if you love or hate Irvine, the WKPP or GUE, they’re doing the most challenging technical dives out there. And they use Gavins. They want distance and don’t give a hoot about what equipment they use (unlike sponsored divers) as long as it gets them further and faster. If they could go 10 feet further on a Farallon, they’d use one. And they don’t.

The fact that you consider “intricate mother boards” and “advanced electronic circuit board reed relays” features, and discount simple robust switches tells me that you’re seduced by the technology.

I’m a gadget freak too, but when it comes to more challenging dive environments, I had to grit my teeth and admit to myself that simple is better, and simple is what a Gavin is. They didn’t cut corners, they built the thing to tow divers 20k into a cave and back out again. Water and electricity don’t mix well, and submerging “intricate mother boards” has to be one of the more foolish ideas I’ve heard of lately.

Engage your brain, look to see what the REAL explorers are using, not some guy employed by Farallon (Tedder). Base you decision on what’ll get you there and back, not what looks and sounds like it’d be cool to own.

Roak

Aquamaniac

October 30th, 2002, 04:18 PM

Bloody good point Roak.

What I want to know is what is the "motherboard" for.

Variable speed? Why do you want to add another useless function that can go wrong.

I could also go into the effects of SCR chopped DC (variable speed) and what it does to organic compounds such as enamel magnet wire that is used in the DC motor windings......But I wont bore you.

Basically, it shortens the life of the motor, good for me as a magnet wire maker......Bad for divers :(

Dave

Waterlover

October 30th, 2002, 04:22 PM

Maybe you want to look at a grownup Farallon.They're called Aqua Zepps hand made in Germany. Better than farallons look almost alike. Naw you're already a Farallon owner in disguise:)

AquaTec

October 30th, 2002, 04:40 PM

roakey once bubbled...
The only dissenting opinion, AquaTec, has referred to a Gavin copy (I’m assuming you meant “Silent Submersion”):
Roak

Roak
why do you say this is a copy

if it is a copy is it DIR.

after doing very little research I am torn between a Gavin and a Silent Sumersion

the others are not providing for my needs

Master Chief

October 31st, 2002, 10:59 AM

Hi

Both the Gavin and Emmersion type DPV veicles are MAKO ideas taken disembowled than thrown out into the market again but marketed as some one elses innovation. The Gavin and Emmersion have circuit boards as well, there is an amp regulator relay and motor voltage regulator found in both to control the power to the Cheap security window reed switch and for motor power regulation, so if it floods it stops and its just hidden in a little black box. I guess I could reinvent the wheel to if i just went around and stole every one elses ideas and came out with a new type of michelin. I just can,t get into a DPV thats PVC welded togethor, but still I like the look. I once had a Aquazepp it was a great scooter but they have gone the way doedoe bird.

Master Chief

New Farallon photo attached

swimndive

October 31st, 2002, 11:29 AM

Master Chief, The last time I flooded a scooter, the motor stayed on. The failure mode for a flooded relay is to stay on, not to cut off, it's also why you need a slippable clutch. Since you're such a big fan of ride-ons you should take a look at the predators. They too have begun to embrace the tow behind philosophy but still make the ride-ons for those who don't need to run a reels or do things with their other hand. swimndive

jonnythan

October 31st, 2002, 11:31 AM

Master Chief once bubbled...
Hi

Both the Gavin and Emmersion type DPV veicles are MAKO ideas taken disembowled than thrown out into the market again but marketed as some one elses innovation. The Gavin and Emmersion have circuit boards as well, there is an amp regulator relay and motor voltage regulator found in both to control the power to the Cheap security window reed switch and for motor power regulation, so if it floods it stops and its just hidden in a little black box. I guess I could reinvent the wheel to if i just went around and stole every one elses ideas and came out with a new type of michelin. I just can,t get into a DPV thats PVC welded togethor, but still I like the look. I once had a Aquazepp it was a great scooter but they have gone the way doedoe bird.

Master Chief

New Farallon photo attached

You asked for opinions and suggestions. Every single person who responded said to skop the Farallon and go with a Gavin (or one one that looks just like a Gavin).

Why are you so vigorously defending Farallon? Do you already own one?

Uncle Pug

October 31st, 2002, 12:09 PM

Master Chief once bubbled...
New Farallon photo attached
Is that your Farallon in the picture?
Are you a Farallon rep or salesman?
Why do you keep calling it an Emmersion like Doug?

Master Chief

October 31st, 2002, 01:52 PM

The picture is of the all new Farallon scotter that came out this week an presented at Dema. I never referd to it as a Emmersion, that would be lowering its quality.

Master Chief

Uncle Pug

October 31st, 2002, 02:13 PM

We know that you attended DEMA and seem to know the Farallon inside and out... as well as having an opinion on Gavins and Emmersion (Silent Submersion.)

And of course you didn't call the Farallon and Emmersion... :D

Aquamaniac

October 31st, 2002, 02:25 PM

The Farallon is a pretty colour and lots more shinyer than a gav.

:D

Dave

AquaTec

October 31st, 2002, 04:13 PM

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Is that your Farallon in the picture?
Are you a Farallon rep or salesman?
Why do you keep calling it an Emmersion like Doug?

PUG
I reffer to the Silent Emerrsion because i reffered to a scooter that i saw in cave country and Roak siad that it was the Silent Emmersion that I was reffering to.

http://www.silent-submersion.com/

I am not saying anything about it except that it was the one everybody was looking to get when i was down there, thats why i brought it up.

I know nothing about scooters and i am learning hear from all of you scooter guys

JamieZ

October 31st, 2002, 04:54 PM

UP dont give him that much credit, he didnt go to DEMA he got all his info from a web article.

Like some one else said the Gavin and the SS when flooded will keep going. The battery housing can be full of water and it will still run and will still shut on and off. If the motor housing floods it will stick in the on position. Flood a Farallon and well your upstream with a dead scooter.

I'm not trying to change your mind just trying to tell you pro's and con's between the 3. . One thing you should do is not form your opinon from a web article http://www.divenewswire.com/ half way down the page is everything word for word what you previously posted, including the picture. Form your opinon from solid info, like riding all 3, take apart all 3, talking to all 3 manufactures and asking them why they think theirs is better then the others. Its a huge purchase and should be researched, because your making a mistake going with a Farallon over the other 2.... Good luck with your purchase

Master Chief

October 31st, 2002, 07:28 PM

Were the hell does it matter were the information comes from, I put that information up on the board to introduce all of you to the new line of Farallon. I've been diving for 27 years and probably have more scooter rides than all of you under my belt and I've used all the mentioned types of scooters but that doesn't exscuse You for having more incorrect information again. Farallons very seldom flood because of there double seal and bulk head cover which protects the motor compartment, plus the pressurisation of that bulk head keeps any water out if a slight leak would occur in the seal or battery compartment. This is the process taken by that short little Gavin guy who took the idea for his own scooter design and claims as his own.

Master Chief

JamieZ

October 31st, 2002, 07:42 PM

;-0

Uncle Pug

October 31st, 2002, 07:46 PM

scubanarc once bubbled...
UP dont give him that much credit, he didnt go to DEMA he got all his info from a web article.
Just fishin' scubanarc :D

Uncle Pug

October 31st, 2002, 07:55 PM

Master Chief once bubbled...
I've been diving for 27 years and probably have more scooter rides than all of you under my belt and I've used all the mentioned types of scooters
More admissions of disingenuity.... why were you asking our advice again?

Oh... sure... now I remember... you just wanted to introduce us all to the new line of Farallons... why didn't you say that in your first post... in fact... this whole thread should have been titled:
"I love the new Farallons and so should you!" :D

AquaTec

October 31st, 2002, 07:58 PM

Master Chief once bubbled...
Hello

I'm just about geard up to purchase a DPV diver propulsion veicle and would like to hear any pros and cons about models other divers have used. I have my eye set on the Farallon MK7 because I've used them in the past and found them to be mechanically sound and dependable. Any comments on other "DPV" models welcomed.

Master Chief

I have to say here, I wonder what your true motives where with your original post.

if you want to enter into a debate and take the side of a perticular idea or product you should just say so. there are plenty of people here who will jump in on a good argument....I have been known to be guilty of that once or twice.

but it seems here that you acted as someone who sincerely wanted input and oppinions on the best scooters as believed by the people onm this board.

I can't help to feel your intentions where not honest.