Question about Rodale's reviews

[bwerb]

As a newer diver, I have been spending quite a bit of time researching my equipment. I have talked to numerous divers, done the manufactuer's website read, google searched, read the review of items on this board etc. I have also gone to the Rodale's review website and found they talk about it being "an independent review" and they layout very clearly their protocol for their testing on most items. I have found that on this board, Rodale's is often taken to task for supporting and recommending only items which they receive advertising dollars from.

I guess my question is, why the bad rap if they so clearly layout exactly their methods of testing and explain clearly what was measurable and what was based on opinion. I haven't been around long enough to figure out where this comes from.

:confused:

[TwoBitTxn]

There will always be an objectivity question when you are dealing with someone like Rodales doing gear reviews. They receive advertising dollars. That money does more to support the magazine than subscriptions do. Without ad dollars the magazine ceases to exist. The question is can the magazine really afford to risk ad dollars by publishing bad reviews. IMO part of every review is spin. They can hype big time any positive aspect of something and totally ignore a negative. They can make all the claims of unbiased they want, but its next to impossible to believe it. You can introduce bias in many different ways.

Best wishes on your gear selection and your diving future.

TwoBit

[BlueDolphin]

Maybe the answer is to compete with Rodales?

Competition helps keep reviews honest. Sort of like car magazines.

I know the cheif editor for Road and Track magazine, and I used to ask him about the BIG car companies and how they must do all sorts of things for him, to get him to bias his reviews.... he insisted that as soon as he compromised, it would ruin the magazines credibility. I did notice that he was allowed to "test" drive any car he chose.... the 600s Mercedes, top of the line Porsche, BMW, Rolls, you name it (for the entire year). But he insisted that there were no GIRLS, suit cases of money, or paid trips, etc..

[Bob3]

Anyone can submit gear for testing & inclusion in the reviews, I've been invited to mail 'em those spiffy Endurotech Kevlar gloves & mitts that I distribute. I don't advertise in RSD.
The only questionable part about the testing is that what the testers value may not be in line with what I would rank an item on.

[Dryglove]

Bob3 once bubbled...
Anyone can submit gear for testing & inclusion in the reviews, I've been invited to mail 'em those spiffy Endurotech Kevlar gloves & mitts that I distribute. I don't advertise in RSD.
The only questionable part about the testing is that what the testers value may not be in line with what I would rank an item on.

Just look at the review heath received on his weightbelt that so many of us use.As far as your gloves bob.......their right on target.....good stuff!!:)

[t_dogg]

Although some people feel Rodale's is biased, I personally don't think that's an issue. They've rated products (regs and BC's) as "unsafe" in the past. My problem with them is that they only review gear that is provided to them for free (as Bob3 alluded to). A truly impartial product review publication (Consumer Reports is the best example) purchases the items under review from a retail store (unannounced) so that they get an item representative of what the general public receives. Not only does Rodale's get the items under review for free, but the manufacturers know that a particular item is being reviewed, so they may double-check or tweak the unit that is being sent to Rodale's. This could mean that the unit Rodale's reviews is different from the one you get off the shelf at the LDS. Also, there are companies (Cochran is one that comes to mind) that refuse to send equipment to Rodale's, so you will never see a review of those brands.

That being said, Rodale's is a good source of information, but should not be your only source when looking at gear. The best thing is to get it wet!

[Big-t-2538]

Does anyone know if Consumer Reports has done any reviews of equipment?

[t_dogg]

I've had a subscription to CR for the last three years and haven't seen any scuba reviews. I don't see anything in their archive on it either. I'd guess that scuba equipment is a pretty narrow topic for the money they'd have to spend. Although, since they are completely supported by donations, if they started getting a lot of donations from the scuba community, maybe we could see some reviews.... (Hint, hint) :)

[Lwang]

Although some people feel Rodale's is biased, I personally don't think that's an issue. They've rated products (regs and BC's) as "unsafe" in the past.

Yeah, like pretty much every mail order gear they reviewed, and those gears aren't even manufacturered by those mail order companies, but by reputable manufacturer that makes the exact same gears in which it got high mark in Roldale's reviews.

BTW, does Rodale report gears from companies besides the mail order types in which it got marginal scores? I think I those gear comparison reviews in which there are not as many products described as tested.

[zboss]

As a professional test engineer I must say that the idea that Rodales' reviews are biased towards their advertisers is a crock - for several reasons:

1) All companies attempt to put their best foot forward and it IS possible that the items they get are the "best of the lot" so-to-speak and it is LIKELY that they followed all of the steps that a shop (a good one) follows before handing the equipment over to you, but this is neither fraudulent or unexpected. As a matter of fact consumers have a tendency to find defects in products that the best in-house test engineer would NEVER have found. I loath what are called "due-diligence" meetings because these people have a way of knocking the wind out of the best of products.

2) In most companies the left-foot has no idea what the right-foot is doing. The possibility that the advert and marketing department are somehow conspiring with the "engineering" or "editorial" department/s is preposterous. If this were true then I want that CEO to run MY company!

3) Large magazines like Rodales will always get enough advertisers to fill their pages because they have a great readership! The Scuba community can sniff out bullcrap reviews like a shark to a chum line; they know that we would tear them to shreads if they were to tweak the review.

4) It would be fraudulent.

[BlueDolphin]

Zboss..... as in..... THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

[leadweight]

Rodale's is a good source of information, but read the entire article and then go out and look at the stuff and try it out if possible. Ask your friends and snoop around on the internet. (Beware, this board has a DIR slant.) Do not just look for the "editor's choice" or "best buy" logo to make a purchasing decision without using your brain first.

In the area of regulator performance they can give fairly objective info. However, this does not cover long term reliability. Their BC reviews tend to be off the wall because I don't agree with their rating system at all.

Their fin tests are kind of interesting, and they have produced some results that are consistent with Diver magazine and an independent tester. Noteably, that the Apollo Pro fin is very efficient in controlled tests.

[Cherry]

I suspect that Rodales does the best job possible with their reviews. After saying that I was suprised at the results they had with Apeks regs. In particular the ATX 200. Now I dont know about you guys but criticism of a reg on markings on the adjust ment knob is weak. My 200 clearly has the + and - marked and hell if ya gotta look at the adjustment knob to figure which is on and which is off all I can say is please stay dry you will be much safer. :mean:

[diverkim]

One person wrote:

My problem with them is that they only review gear that is provided to them for free
But I believe that Rodales does, on occasion at least, go out and buy equipment for testing. E.g.; they went and bought IST regulators and BCDs and tested them and warned that the regulators, at least were unsafe for diving.
Unfortunately the shop I worked in had bought IST regulators and BCDs prior to the review. The equipment was CE certified, meaning OK for the EU market. My experience was that the products were quite inferior.
I tend to side with ZBoss and find Rodales is relatively unbiased in their testing. It would be a killer for them if they were cooking their results. Soon they would go the way of Skin Diver.

[Captain Hardhead]

I poked around quit a bit and found the following site that claims to be 100% independent on their equipment reviews. They claim their reviews are not ad driven. :doctor:

http://www.cyber-diver.com/gear/gear.html

[reefraff]

HardHead once bubbled...
I poked around quit a bit and found the following site that claims to be 100% independent on their equipment reviews. They claim their reviews are not ad driven. :doctor:

http://www.cyber-diver.com/gear/gear.html

ScubaBobby and his CyberLiar webscam? The site is basically an email scam (harvest those addresses for spam lists) with a penchant for shoveling bull**** as fast as they can. If you think that they are not ad driven, then those must be not ads all over their homepage...

Caveat emptor - in scuba as in everything.

Steven

[diverkim]

I checked it out Hardhead. Although I think Rodale's is mainly unbiased they are open to commercial pressure; therefore at first look, I have to prefer Cyber Diver.:bonk:

[Lwang]

HardHead once bubbled...
I poked around quit a bit and found the following site that claims to be 100% independent on their equipment reviews. They claim their reviews are not ad driven. :doctor:

http://www.cyber-diver.com/gear/gear.html

But their review is so bare boned, just a numerical rating of 10 regulators and 10 dive computers. Plus they don't give us the bottom rankers, the ones we should know to avoid.

[Captain Hardhead]

OK, I admit I might have jumped the gun. While I might agree with their ratings, I miss not haveing the detail. After digging around on the site, I found a spot that said it gave more detail BUT you had to be a member. I stopped looking at that point. I also don't know how often they update their list. I guess I just was happy to see that they approved of some of the gear I researched and purchased.

[diverkim]

Upon 2nd look I have to concur with Lwang that the Cyber Diver site is rather skimpy on info. It has promise. I emailed them but I haven't received a reply yet.:bonk: