"Bauer Oceanus" Class Compressors

[Stone]

I’ve tried to do my homework on both the Scubaboard Archives and the net, and I've read Oxyhacker's book. If there is a Tech forum someone can recommend, I’ll do some more research there. In the mean time, maybe some of the “usual suspects” can help me fill in some gaps. Here is what I think I know:

- I am interested in a scuba-ready compressor (single phase, 220v)
- I’m leaning toward buying “new”
- It will be used with Oxyhacker’s continuous Nitrox mixer
- I don’t want to spend much over $4000
- My internet search came up with Bauer, RIX, Max-Air, and a German manufacturer named L&W
- Bauer has the most info available
- Pricing information on the net is sparse
- The smallest compressors [like the Bauer Junior II (3 Hp/3.9 SCFM)] don’t appear to have what it takes. I believe you have to baby-sit the Junior (drain it every 15 min), so it would be lousy for filling a bank. I’d like a compressor that I can hook up to one or two 250 cf tanks and go watch TV
- The next class up [like the Bauer Oceanus (5 Hp/4.9 SCFM)] appears to meet my requirements

Is the Oceanus a good choice? Are there other compressors in this class that are cheaper, or more reliable, or cost less to maintain. What have I left out?

Thanks!

[Bob3]

I have a stack of literature here I picked up at DEMA, I'm doing some compressor research for a non-local board member.
I had a chance to speak with several of the mfgr's reps while at DEMA as well.
I'm still masticating the info, but the Bauer is assuredly a good choice because of their fondness for needle bearings as opposed to mere ball bearings.
There IS an Italian mfgr that caught my attention, their compressors are less compact, but they appeared to be nicely engineered, & at a very reasonable price. Refillable cannister filters, too.

I applaud your decision on the nitrox blender, you're using Oxyhacker's plans I take it?

[Stone]

Bob3 once bubbled...
I applaud your decision on the nitrox blender, you're using Oxyhacker's plans I take it?

Yes, I'm using Oxyhacker's plans.

I started off going the Partial Pressure (PP) route, but my LDS pumps Nitrox and would not let me use them for just an air top-off (not that I blame them). There is a local dive club that allows members to PP mix, but the inconvenience of loading up 8 - 10 tanks, making the one hour round-trip drive, and spending a couple of hours filling tanks, is not appealing.

If compressor supplies and maintenance run about $200 a year my "back of the envelope" calculations give me a break even point ($4000 compressor) at about 3 years. If I wanted to bail out and could sell the compressor for $2000, the break even point is closer to 18 months.

I'm looking for the downside, but I haven't found a show-stopper, yet.

[Uncle Pug]

Stone once bubbled...
I'm looking for the downside, but I haven't found a show-stopper, yet.
That is why I went with RIX.

[swimndive]

I don't think you'll find a turn key new Bauer w/autodrain other than the junior for under 4k. If you decide to go the used route a Bauer is a very good choice. The Coltri/Maxair and some of the other inexpensive machines can be bought new in the price range you are looking at. Their downside is that they are not really designed for continuous duty, something you're going to spend the day doing if you are only pumping at 5 or less cfm and something that the small Bauers were actually designed to do.

[Stone]

I've found a list price for a Bauer Oceanus (5 Hp / 4.9 scfm*) at $4300.

The RIX Industries website lists 2 compressors that might work for me, but I don't know the price range

The RIX SA-3E (5) is 3 Hp / 3.5 scfm*
The RIX SA-6E (3-L) is 5 Hp / 5.5 scfm*

Can anyone give me ballpark figure on the RIX compressors while I try to find a dealer quote?


* fill rate from 500 to 3000 psi on an 80 cf tank

[Uncle Pug]

Stone once bubbled...
The RIX SA-3E (5) is 3 Hp / 3.5 scfm*
The RIX SA-6E (3-L) is 5 Hp / 5.5 scfm*
Figure 4500 for the SA-3 and 7000 for the SA-6
Unless you can score a good deal on a good used one... and that can happen... the SA-6 I bought only had 18hrs on it.

[Stone]

RIX just sent me the price list:

SA-3 is $4115
SA-6 is $5895

SA-6 is more than I want to spend.

But now the dilema is that the Bauer Oceanus appears to be more compressor than the SA-3 for about the same price.

I need more data!

[Uncle Pug]

Stone once bubbled...
But now the dilema is that the Bauer Oceana appears to be more compressor than the SA-3 for about the same price.

Be sure to factor in the increased cost of filtering (not insubstantial) if you go with the oil lubed compressor and intend to continuous blend... CO is the pits!

I would advise against the SA-3... just too slow if you are going to be filling big tanks and big banks.

Just add the cost of a hyperpure fillter tower and yearly filter supply to the Bauer and then compare that figure with an SA-6.

You might want to PM Omar for some suggestions too.

[swimndive]

I think the Oceanus was designed to be a true marine portable unit capable of rolling something like 20 or 30 degrees without sucking air into the oil pump. It's output is around 5 cfm which is ok, as long as you are not filling multi-sets of doubles. You might consider enlisting a partner on this venture, as 4k is probably going to mean you'll have to forgo a cascade system and an auto condensate drain as well as a few other necessary items to set up a nice blending system. If you thought owning a fill station would pay for itself I think you'll just have to wait and see. It mainly depends on what your time is worth or at least what others are willing to pay you for it. If you want to kick back and watch tv while the machine pumps up a cascade, you'll need to add the auto drain which may add 500-750 to the price.

[Uncle Pug]

swimndive once bubbled...
If you want to kick back and watch tv while the machine pumps up a cascade, you'll need to add the auto drain which may add 500-750 to the price.
Or you can do what I do... come in and hit ScubaBoard for 20 minutes and then run out to the fill station... and repeat...

[Master Chief]

CAUTION

Be carefull with the Max air line of compressors, they tend to run those compresors faster than they need to be resulting in premature 1st, second and even third stage piston and head wear. check there rpm rateings.

master Chief

[swimndive]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Or you can do what I do... come in and hit ScubaBoard for 20 minutes and then run out to the fill station... and repeat...

In a severe environment like in Florida where "it's not just the heat it's the stupidity" you would need to cut that board time in half. Seriously. Most machines are set to dump every 10 to 15 minutes even in the panhandle which is where I believe the original questioner lives.

[Uncle Pug]

swimndive once bubbled...
In a severe environment like in Florida where "it's not just the heat it's the stupidity" you would need to cut that board time in half.
If I lived in the swamp I think I might have to go with timed auto-dumps... or move the computer out to the garage. :D

[Stone]

I appreciate the heads-up on the Max-air, and the comment on the Auto drain.

Obviously, the hyperfilter is a good idea; however, does anyone know if it would be overkill if continuous blending on a brand new, electrically powered Bauer Oceanus?

[swimndive]

Unfortunately it’s not that easy if you decide to go the new Oceanus route. A new compressor means break in oil, and break in oil is petroleum based, and is not nitrox compatible. Ultimately, you are going to need to run a food grade nitrox compatible synthetic. I don’t know what the break in period on a new Bauer is, they say they all have some new type of piston ring, check with Bauer. Until you break the thing in and make the switch to synthetic, “no nitrox for you…” unless you know somebody with a RIX or other properly set up machine. Once you get set up you’ll produce grade e air with the stock filters and you should be able to get away w/o the hyper filter and do all the pp mixing as long as you take good care of you machine. If you set it up to continuous blend, then likewise you’ll have no need for that hyper-filter.

[Stone]

swimndive once bubbled...
A new compressor means break in oil, and break in oil is petroleum based, and is not nitrox compatible. . . Ultimately, you are going to need to run a food grade nitrox compatible synthetic. . . .If you set it up to continuous blend, then likewise you’ll have no need for that hyper-filter.
I only plan to do continuous blending.

My desire to know if a hyperfilter is overkill, has to do with air quality as it relates to what goes into my lungs. . . not the combustion potential of topping off a tank with air that is not hydrocarbon-free.

That being said, I have two questions.

1) Since I am continuous blending, can't I skip the hyperfilter (period)?

2) Is food grade synthetic oil desirable from just a "combustion" point of view, or is it also desirable from a "quality of breathing air" point of view.

Thanks!

[swimndive]

The answer to both your questions is a conditional yes, a hyper-filter is overkill. I would recommend that you first call Bauer and ask them about the compatabilty of their break in oil with oxygen enriched air and how long you actually need to keep this oil in the machine. I wouldn't advise any blending until you can make the swithover. As far as the food grade synthetic goes, it's not a combustion issue it's a health issue. Most of the recommended synthetics used in scuba compressors are diesther based. There are however some suitable food grade lubricants that I feel have some long term "health" advantages.

[Stone]

swimndive once bubbled...
The answer to both your questions is a conditional yes, a hyper-filter is overkill.

Swimndive,

Thanks for your help. A hyper-filter requirement (initial outlay and recurring cost) might have stalled my home mixing plans.

[Uncle Pug]

I'm surprised Omar hasn't jumped in here... he must not be aware of this thread. He uses an oiled compressor for continuous blending and would be able to give you some valuable pointers.

Perhaps you won't need a hyperfilter... but with the increased O2 present in the compressor (due to continuous blending) it would be my concern that more CO will be produced... perhaps the use of synthetics eliminates that... I don't know... and it might not be a hyperfilter but just a good CO filter you would need.

[Stone]

I had a chat with a Bauer representive today about running premixed Nitrox through their Oceanus compressor and whether there was an effect on warranty.

The "official" policy I got was that compressing Nitrox voids the warranty. The ;) wink and nudge I got was "If you're really interested, I can recommend a good synthetic oil for you".

When I asked what kind of damage Nitrox might cause, I was told "pitting of the cylinder wall due to combustion". Combustion was the last word I wanted to hear (ref. Pug's comments on CO)

I understand Bauer's need to CYA, so I'm going to take their comments with a grain of salt. There must be plenty of continuous blending home mixers who have not burnt up their compressors and don't get a headache every time they dive.

P.S.

He said I can't get an autodrain on the Oceanus.

[swimndive]

Yeah they will tell you not to run He through it either. A good synthetic lube is all you'll need, but it looks like you'll have to go to one of the bigger machines if you want the auto drain and that will blow the budget. Why not just get one of your buddies to kick in and then you can build a proper fill station? I'm sure most of the people who are blending spent more than 4k to get up and running. A good system will always have decent re-sale value so you can't get hurt too bad.

[Stone]

I am pretty ignorant on HP compressors, so bear with me.

The problem with not having an auto-drain (assuming continuous blending) is. . . you have to:

1) Turn everything off (the O2 tank, the compressor, the fill tank)
2) Drain the water
3) Turn everything back on

Can you install a "semi" auto-drain that allows you to leave everything running and throw a switch to drain the sump?

[Uncle Pug]

Stone once bubbled...
I am pretty ignorant on HP compressors, so bear with me.

The problem with not having an auto-drain (assuming continuous blending) is. . . you have to:


You just open the drain with the compressor running... no problem there.

The problem is that to filter out CO you will need a filter media that is quickly destroy by any water vapour... hence you will need to make sure that not only do you have a filter for that before the CO element... but the condensate chambers after each stage must be drained also... every 15~20 minutes (or more often if you live in the swamp.)

[Genesis]

know anyone (other than you, of course) that has a Rix SA6 that (1) is in good shape, and (2) they don't want? :)

[dmdalton]

As UP said you can find good deals if you look. Expect to pay about $4200 for a rebuilt SA-6 with 1 year waranty. If someone is serious about buying one PM me and I'll give you the name of my compressor guy who had one he was going to rebuild for me.

Before he did I found a RIX SA-6 for $1500 that came with a Bauer PO filter (combination coalescer & filtration). It had been "run hard and put to bet wet" and was only putting out 3 cfm instead of 5.5 when I got it. I converted it from gas to electric, replaced the 1st and second stage rings, 3rd stage cylinder, piston assembly, and rebuilt the 3rd stage head, all for $1000 (no charge for my labor). My compressor guy converted the interstage separators from a little screen thingy to a coalescor type element to help out there as well.

As UP will tell you one advantage of the RIX is that no matter how poor the condition the compressor can not degrade the quality of the air it pumps. An oil lubed 6 cfm compressor that had as bad ring blow-by would have filled your tanks with an oil cloud.

Dave D

[pescador775]

The Bauer PO filter is perfectly suitable for continuous flow blending. Moreover, although I know several people who do partial pressure mixing with the standard Bauer setup with no problems, the 'book' says that extra filtration is needed. Actually, this is false, mostly. As a precaution, an O2 clean cylinder/valve being partial pressure filled with standard triplex filtration should be internally cleaned after a couple hundred fills, or anytime if moisture/rust is visible inside the bottle. There is some cost associated with the Bauer replaceable cartridge. A $35 ctg is good for about 50 fills. Cleaning the tank and valve can be done in about a half hour using a special solvent called Ensolv. One or two quarts is required and cost is $50.00/gal. Replace tank and valve O rings.

The Oceanus is a good compressor but pricey for a 4 cfm (that's what they actually deliver). If portability is a must and price is no object it seems a good choice. It is the only portable that I am aware of that is continuous rated at 4500 psi. Ironically, some much bigger used compressors can be had on E Bay for the same or less. I presume auto drain/shutoff would not be an issue with a large unit. You should keep an eye on things anyway.

As far as oil clouds, Bauer intentionally vents crankcase mist back to the first stage. This provides for extra lubrication and is inconsequential to the air quality which is easily controlled by the filter. I've only seen one cracked cyl ring, in an old mil compressor. There were two consequences, reduced output and blowby oil mist coming from the crankcase vent. This raises the possibility that the type of compressor with a feedback loop, like Bauer, would vent more vapor back to the first stage. However, the Bauer piston rings are good for about 3,000 hours, 10 times longer than the RIX.

I seriously doubt that there would be any combustion while pumping NITROX up to 36%. However, one poster made a good point about Delvac break in oil. It's petroleum based and might cause some oxidation/odor during the first hours of operation. The triplex condensator contains hopcalite which should take care of any small amount of CO produced during compression.

Stone: I'm adding a comment on the Oceanus auto drain since I see that you contacted the co. Compressed Air Specialities will custom equip that compessor with auto drain and pressure switch. They sell the whole package.

[Bubble Boy]

I was told by the bauer rep that all new bauer units have synthetic oil in them when they leave Norfolk.

[Mark V]

I'm going to put corn oil in your newly rebuilt K14 bubble boy, get out the check book, or its ours.

Mark V:bonk: :mean:

[Stone]

pescador775 once bubbled...
Stone: I'm adding a comment on the Oceanus auto drain since I see that you contacted the co. Compressed Air Specialities will custom equip that compessor with auto drain and pressure switch. They sell the whole package.

I saw the "whole package" in the catalog. They didn't list the price (and I'm almost afraid to ask).

[dmdalton]

As I recall, an auto drain will set you back $800-1200 depending on the number of stages it drains.

Dave D

[Norm]

In my opinion/experiences - get the Bauer. I have one that I have used for years now and except for oil and filter changes I haven't touched the dern thing. A friend of mine was going to replace his compressor in his diveshop. He was going to replace like-for-like. I reminded him of the heartbreak and expense that he incurred for years with his old brand so he bought a Bauer. The darn thing is phenominal, just like I told him it would be. They are tough! JMO
Norm