to advance or not to advace

jdb · Nov 14, 2002

I am looking to go for my cavern/cave cert. starting in Jan of this coming year. I am OW Cert. and all of the classes close by are wanting an Advance cert. Don't take this wrong but at this point I feel that it would be a waste of money. I have done deep dives, night dives, boat dives, wreck dives, etc.... and I have had several of the classes required under the advance cert. ie.. Nav class, Nitrox.. and have been on numerous dives with over head obstructions ( dive buddy was an instructor on these dives ) Here is my question, do I really need the advance cert? any comments from the instructors out there would be greatly appreciated.

lucid · Nov 14, 2002

IMO AOW was a complete waste of money. My instructor included Nitrox with it. and thats the only reason I took it.

O-ring · Nov 14, 2002

...but I agree. AOW was BY FAR the worst class I have taken to date. Granted, my instructor was horrible, but it really isn't a very good class to begin with, IMHO. I have heard of people having great AOW classes, but that seems more the exception than the rule...

Problem is: 1) I needed AOW to get on most of the NE/Mid-Atlantic wreck boats and 2) I needed AOW to get to Rescue.

MikeFerrara · Nov 14, 2002

If it is a PADI program you can get out of doing AOW by documenting experience. This not a direct quote because I don't have the manual in fron of me but you need to have some cert beyond OW (one or more specialties works) and document experience in deep, nav and night and I think there is a minimum number of dives also. Ask your instructor or if you want I'll look up the exact wording at lunch.

I know bunches of cave divers who never did AOW.

I am really disapointed to hear how many didn't get anything out of AOW. Walter may be right and maybe there should be more meat to it but all my students get their buts worked off and learn a bunch.

chickdiver · Nov 14, 2002

The first step you need to take is finding a cave instructor. Next, discuss your experience with him/her and the instructor will decide if he/she feels an advanced class is needed. For the most part it is an issue of expereince and not the cert per se.

Second- your statement that you've dived in numerous overhead environments with an instructor is bogus. Many of the cave diving fatalities we have seen over the years were OW instructors who thought they knew all they needed to know. They were wrong. There is no substitute for training, and you should NEVER rely on another's knowledge for your personal safety.

Chickdiver- OW instructor, Cave Instructor, Mixed Gas Instructor

jdb · Nov 14, 2002

Thanks for the input everyone,
Chickdiver, I agree with your statement and maybe I should have been more detailed. The instructor was a full cave instructor but wouldn't cert. me because he knew me personally and didn't feel he could be objective enough.(at least that is what he told me) I went through some training before each dive and objective behind the dives was training. The over head environments were at a place called Vortex spring which has man made caves built for training. Still I agree with you That I personally should have the skills and training before going any further.

Thanks

MikeFerrara · Nov 14, 2002

But...who is chickdiver?

We haven't had many cave instructors on here. We may know some of the same people. Are you a Florida cave instructor? Just trying to pry.

chickdiver · Nov 14, 2002

Yes I am A Florida Cave Instructor. I am loathe to give out my name due to liability issues. Thanks for asking.

chickdiver · Nov 14, 2002

With regard to your friend saying that he "wasn't objective enough" to certify you, that's also bogus. I have trained many friends over the years, including my current exploration partner. I am likely harder on them than on other students because I know what they are capable of. No offense, but you friend didn't so you any favors. If he wanted to make these dives with you, he should have given you the formalized training required, otherwise he should have recommended someone suitable to you. My .02 worth.

boomx5 · Nov 14, 2002

I'm just prying to. What agency to train for?

to advance or not to advace

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