Why did you start diving doubles?

[LG Diver]

OK- I've been following the thread about when people started diving doubles and one thing that I still wonder about is what prompted you all to start diving doubles.

About me: I currently have about 40 dives and the following certs: OW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and the following PADI specialties- Nav, Deep, Drysuit, DPV. I currently own all my own gear except tanks (BP/W, drysuit, regs w/long hose and bungeed backup), and everything I've bought so far is DIR compliant (no can light yet). I'd like to eventually move towards tech, though I don't know when that would be. I'd like to do the FifthD-x Essentials course this year, but beyond that it's up in the air. All of my diving is currently with buddies, instructors, DM's that I've met in the course of my PADI training. They all dive single tanks and standard recreational setups, and have no desire to move to tech. Additionally, my wife is about to get her OW cert, and I'll hopefully be doing a lot of diving with her, which will all be simple, relatively shallow stuff for a while.

I'm finally ready to buy tanks, and I was all set to just go buy a couple of X8-130's and continue single tank diving but I've been reading the other thread about switching to doubles, and also been reading the FifthD-x forums a bit lately. All of this has got me thinking about getting a set of X7-100's or LP85's doubles instead. My thinking is that the more diving I do in doubles, the more I'll have the skills ingrained when I get to tech even if it's not for a while. So, if all my dive buddies are diving singles with recreational (non-DIR) setups, is moving to doubles a bit overkill? Should I save the move to doubles for when I have a more definite timeline for tech, and for when I start diving with others that are diving doubles?

[atedeschi]

I went to double I started with double AL80 about a year after I started diving and then two years ago went to double 120 because I was doing longer and deeper dives. If you are looking into tech it is not a bad thing to get used to double but find some one to use as a mentor so you do not get into bad habits or set something up wrong. Also only get one set because you can use them for two dives untill you start getting into deeper/longer dives.

Just a question: Why you going the DIR path?

[TSandM]

I went to doubles because I want to learn to cave dive. I figured that, given how hard it's been for me to learn to do anything in this sport, the more time I had in doubles before attempting anything like a cave course, the better off I'd be.

There's no particular reason not to dive doubles, if you're interested in doing so. You'll have WAY more gas than your buddies, so they'll gas limit the dives. And you need to educate them about your equipment and how it works, so they can help you if there is any problem. You don't necessarily NEED doubles for the dives you're doing, but there's no particular downside to using them, except the wear and tear on your body from hauling them around, and the expense of getting them filled.

[lowridersvt]

The reason i went double is because i live in the great lakes area and there is alot of shipwrecks here and i wanted to get into doing long penatration on deep shipwrecks and Now that i dive doubles i wont dive a single again. Other than vacation dives

I like the dir configuration even tho mine is a modified version it is better better that the old hose stuffer or independent doubles just alot more streamline and has better redundency and les task loading .

As for tank size i dive double e8 130 i started diving them as single then moved to doubles i would not go much smaller if you planing on going tech due to the depth or the penatration .

I use double lp 80 on shalower dive or current dive with newbies that i take out once in a wile

Oh yeah pic up the dir manuel its a life saver when it come to gear configuration and diving tips

[Tavi]

I live near the Great Lakes too.
I got doubles because of all the awesome shipwrecks here.
The deeper you go the better shape the wrecks are in.

started doubles at dive #85 and technical training at dive #144
NAUI has excellent technical courses!! :thumb:

[Meng_Tze]

.. except the wear and tear on your body from hauling them around,...
??? Now you got me scared.

I went doubles because I went the cave route.

[TSandM]

??? Now you got me scared.


I think I've shrunk an inch since I started climbing hills with my body weight on my back! (And I didn't have an inch to lose . . . )

[Ben_ca]

For more flexibility during the dive... If I'm doing Pt Lobos and the vis is outstanding... I'll extend my dive out and do one long dive versus 2 shorter ones....

Also I hate changing tanks on the boats.... this was I can rest during the SI and enjoy the time more.

[LG Diver]

Thanks for the thoughts, all of you.


Just a question: Why you going the DIR path?

After having done a lot of research on DIR, including buying and reading "Dress for Success" and "DIR: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" I feel like I have a decent understanding of not only the DIR gear config but the overall philosophy, and it makes sense to me. While I haven't fully embraced some of the finer details (I still have a knob on my rear dump valve) I think that, in general, the system is very well thought out and it will take me as far as I care to go in diving, i.e., I won't need to re-learn a new gear config later down the road as I advance. Sorry- don't mean to hijack my own thread :D

So, nobody thinks it odd for me to go to doubles if all my current dive buddies are in single tanks (and most of them in Al 80's)? I'd probably go with a smaller set of steel doubles since most of my diving is beach diving.

Thanks again,
John

[Rick Inman]

I switched to doubles because this new buddy I had, who was a tech instructor, told me to, so he could (as he also told me) teach me to tech dive so he had a buddy.

He was selfish, and I was a good, obedient, submissive dive buddy.

:D

Seriously though, I guess I switched to doubles because there was a reason to, based on the diving I was going to do. I did not switch just for the sake of diving doubles.

[Ben_ca]

Thanks for the thoughts, all of you.



After having done a lot of research on DIR, including buying and reading "Dress for Success" and "DIR: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" I feel like I have a decent understanding of not only the DIR gear config but the overall philosophy, and it makes sense to me. While I haven't fully embraced some of the finer details (I still have a knob on my rear dump valve) I think that, in general, the system is very well thought out and it will take me as far as I care to go in diving, i.e., I won't need to re-learn a new gear config later down the road as I advance. Sorry- don't mean to hijack my own thread :D

So, nobody thinks it odd for me to go to doubles if all my current dive buddies are in single tanks (and most of them in Al 80's)? I'd probably go with a smaller set of steel doubles since most of my diving is beach diving.

Thanks again,
John


So John, Have you met any "DIR" guys yet? :eyebrow: I hear there might be a few that dive in Monterey.... there's might even be a T2 guy living in LG

[Diver Dennis]

I started diving doubles last year after about 1900 dives. I take pictures now and dive solo a lot and as I get older, the clearer I can see my mortality. I wanted to get a solo cert but I also wanted to know more about decompression. I took terrific "over-taught" Advanced Nitrox and Deco courses from Atlantis Tech in the Philippines and learned a lot of things that have changed my diving in certain ways. I will continue to dive solo, most of the time without doubles as all of my diving is done in warm open water, good vis locations but to me the training was invaluable. As someone put it here, a couple more tools in the toolbox.

[LG Diver]

So John, Have you met any "DIR" guys yet? :eyebrow: I hear there might be a few that dive in Monterey.... there's might even be a T2 guy living in LG

Why, no I haven't. I'd love to though. PM on the way.

[Colliam7]

I started diving doubles in order to do tec. I pursued tec in order to generally improve my overall diving skills, and maybe go a little deeper and stay a little longer (IOW, no plans to dive the Doria at this point). As I noted in a separate post, I suggest that anyone thinking about tec in the future consider setting up doubles and diving them a lot, well before starting tec (if that is where you might be headed).

There is a bit of a financial issue, of course. But, it sounds like you have been in a position to set up much of your future tec equipment (eg, BP/W, drysuit) already, and an additional investment in several tanks may not be out of the question. Before tec, I was diving single E-7 120s (had two of them), as well as an AL80, and had a AL40 pony. I set up my 80 and my 40 as deco bottles for tec, and doubled my 120s, which has left me without a good tank for single tank deeper dives (>100'). Taking down the doubles to dive the tanks as singles, then reassembling them for doubles is just not very practical, and I am enough of an air hog that an 80 is not functional on NC coastal wrecks. So, I am now looking at adding a couple of 130s to dive as singles, in those situations where that is all I want to dive. 'Ka-ching' goes the cash register, I guess!

Seriously, the bottom line is that, if you are thinking about tec, you may want to go ahead and set up some doubles (AL 80s, or steel 95s, or steel 100s, or even 130s) now, and possibly invest in an additional good single tank (a 130 for instance) to have flexibility. At least, that has been my experience.

>>My thinking is that the more diving I do in doubles, the more I'll have the skills ingrained when I get to tech even if it's not for a while. <<

Yes, yes, yes! I believe you are thinking along optimal lines. Kudos.

>>So, if all my dive buddies are diving singles with recreational (non-DIR) setups, is moving to doubles a bit overkill? <<

Not necessarily. I will dive my doubles on what is a single tank dive for my buddies, just to keep working on developing doubles experience. So, I come up with them when their air gets to the turn point, and I just don't change tanks between dives when they do.

>>Should I save the move to doubles for when I have a more definite timeline for tech, and for when I start diving with others that are diving doubles?<<

As you might infer, I suggest you not wait, if there is even a reasonable chance you will pursue tec. Tec training is a good experience - humbling, challenging, frustrating and rewarding. Being comfortable with your equipment when you start may well tilt the scale more toward the rewarding and away from the frustrating.

[in_cavediver]

I started with doubles for cave/tec side. My wife started diving doubles because she was sick of getting air fills (singles) while I had plenty of gas (doubles). Now she has gone the cave/tec route.
We own 104's, 85's and 80's. I'm considering a set of 121's/150's and likely will try a set in a couple weeks with my next pilgrimage to NFL. I haven't dove a single in a couple years.

[Nailer99]

I started diving doubles so that I could start tech diving. I really like having the ability to isolate my gas supply in the event of a regulator failure, failed O ring, or blown burst disk. Not likely to happen, but I think in terms of "worst case" scenarios a lot.
I love how they feel in the water, actually- very stable.

[texdiveguy]

....... tec diving.

[Vie]

I also started diving doubles (AL80s) in order to pursue technical dive training. Must admit I've become addicted to the convenience and stability so now I try to dive doubles whenever I can, tech or rec.

[grazie42]

The first time I dove doubles was during a course that required it. I would recommend others to do it differently...

I do quite a bit of "remote" shore-diving and itīs nice to be able to do two decent decodives on one set of doubles without needing to mess with fills between dives...

[FathomDiveWear]

I have seen this question posed many times.

My personal thoughts come from seeing folks adopt doubles without a complete understanding of what their purpose is. I have had people tell me they got them for the bottom time, or to get experience. My personal opinion is that if you are going to get experience with doubles it should be as part of a training program. Although a lot of folks wont agree, I believe that doubles have a specific place, also a person shouldnt be diving doubles with people who arent, they may not (most likely wont) undestand the set up and will be unable to assist you if needed in an emergency. You yourself may not understand it. As for reading about a particular method or set up, All the reading in the world is not a substitution for appropriate training.

Just my 2 cents

[JimC]

I too started diving doubles to cave dive. I started with a set of E8-130's and after a year of breaking my back got a set of 72's.

Funny enough a year later it was cave diving (locally) that got me out of doubles with sidemount. Now I enjoy the freedom of diving singles again in open water and it is fantastic.

[nereas]

OK- I've been following the thread about when people started diving doubles and one thing that I still wonder about is what prompted you all to start diving doubles.

About me: I currently have about 40 dives and the following certs: OW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and the following PADI specialties- Nav, Deep, Drysuit, DPV. I currently own all my own gear except tanks (BP/W, drysuit, regs w/long hose and bungeed backup), and everything I've bought so far is DIR compliant (no can light yet). I'd like to eventually move towards tech, though I don't know when that would be. I'd like to do the FifthD-x Essentials course this year, but beyond that it's up in the air. All of my diving is currently with buddies, instructors, DM's that I've met in the course of my PADI training. They all dive single tanks and standard recreational setups, and have no desire to move to tech. Additionally, my wife is about to get her OW cert, and I'll hopefully be doing a lot of diving with her, which will all be simple, relatively shallow stuff for a while.

I'm finally ready to buy tanks, and I was all set to just go buy a couple of X8-130's and continue single tank diving but I've been reading the other thread about switching to doubles, and also been reading the FifthD-x forums a bit lately. All of this has got me thinking about getting a set of X7-100's or LP85's doubles instead. My thinking is that the more diving I do in doubles, the more I'll have the skills ingrained when I get to tech even if it's not for a while. So, if all my dive buddies are diving singles with recreational (non-DIR) setups, is moving to doubles a bit overkill? Should I save the move to doubles for when I have a more definite timeline for tech, and for when I start diving with others that are diving doubles?

To answer your original question, I doubled up my first set of 80s with a new manifold for my first stage-decompression tech course. Prior to that time, a single 80 was fine for me for NDL diving. It all depends on your size and your SCR.

I am average height at 5ft-10in, and my SCR is fairly low at 0.75 cu ft/min average. For average sized divers, 72s or 80s are more than sufficient for NDL diving. For some big-and-tall divers, 100s+ may be more appropriate, especially instructors or divemasters.

Twin 72s or twin 80s are perfect for tech training tanks for the earlier portion of the training. Eventually you may want to get larger twin tanks, but you don't need larger ones at first. In your case, your wife could dive with the 72s in the singles mode after you have finished your tech courses with them in the doubles mode.

I do not recommend jumping into double tanks before your first tech class. There are all sorts of special procedures that you need to learn, such as valve drills, etc. As long as your tanks match, you can double them with a compatible manifold later.

To answer the second part of you question, I have four 130s which at the moment are configured into two sets of doubles, each with a manifold and its own backplate and wing. But I did not use these tanks until the last few dives of my last advanced trimix course, and then of course for tech diving since then. These tanks give you a nice large reserve, on all tech dives. But they are heavy out of the water and a pain to get onto and off the boat at the dock. This is why each set has its own dedicated backplate and wing. And they are really heavy, so out of the question for any type of beach diving.

I suggest you keep diving in the single tank mode to improve your skills, then switch to small doubles to begin your tech training, and finally put off the big doubles for as long as you can.

[LG Diver]

I do not recommend jumping into double tanks before your first tech class. There are all sorts of special procedures that you need to learn, such as valve drills, etc.

Thanks all for your thoughts. To clarify- if I decide to try out doubles, I'd definitely seek out some training such as the FifthD-x "Doubles Mini" or at least a couple of hours of pool time with my current instructor, who is a PADI Tec Rec instructor, to ensure I have the gear config down, doubles-specific procedures, and some help with trim. After reading some posts from others' first experiences with doubles I see that this could be a barrel of fun. :D

[TSandM]

Oh, do the doubles mini! Joe is SUCH a kick as an instructor. You'll have a great time, and learn a lot, too.

[TomP]

So, nobody thinks it odd for me to go to doubles if all my current dive buddies are in single tanks (and most of them in Al 80's)? I'd probably go with a smaller set of steel doubles since most of my diving is beach diving.

Thanks again,
John

If you are going to invest in a set of doubles you should consider the type of diving you plan to do down the road and size accordingly. It seems like you're gravitating toward tech but your buddies clearly are not. You'll likely need bigger tanks and different buddies if you go that way.

[LG Diver]

If you are going to invest in a set of doubles you should consider the type of diving you plan to do down the road and size accordingly.

Very true- this is one of the reasons I've been checking out the FifthD-x forums lately. Seems that a good number of the DIR locals are diving double X7-100's or LP85's.



It seems like you're gravitating toward tech but your buddies clearly are not. You'll likely need bigger tanks and different buddies if you go that way.

Also true, though it'll be a while before I'm ready to truly go tech. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out what the best way to go is during this time of "wannabe tech but not there yet" ;) I'm already in a drysuit, bp/w, reg w/ long hose and bungeed backup, and Al 40 pony rigged like a stage. I figure the more dives I get in as close to a tech setup as I can get, the less new stuff I have to learn when I finally get to the tech courses.

[roturner]

OK- I've been following the thread about when people started diving doubles and one thing that I still wonder about is what prompted you all to start diving doubles.

In my case it was because I was making the move to technical diving.



My thinking is that the more diving I do in doubles, the more I'll have the skills ingrained when I get to tech even if it's not for a while.


In terms of just swimming around there are no special skills. Cyber diving just makes it seem as though it's something mysterious and difficult about it, especially you believe all the BS about how difficult and mysterious everything has to be before you earn your Indiana-Jones-Macho-Adventurer pin.......

The basic fact is that you'll need a couple of dozen dives in your doubles before you take your tek classes to be sorted in terms of gear. In fact, having too much experience with a given config may close your mind to things it should be open to....For the time being, just go out and make a few hundred dives.

In terms of how much better it's all supposed to be.... I'll say this. I still own two complete sets. One is my hog thingy and the other is a trad setup with a 15litre tank that I use when I'm doing something training related. I dive equally well in both. In fact, I think I could dive with a milk jug tied to my butt and a spare air bungeed around my neck and still demonstrate good skills and buoyancy. What you wear is not who you are in this sport irregardless of how much some people want you to believe that. What they're talking about is *looking* like you know what you're doing. If you're smart you'll get well informed, well trained and well connected and ignore them and go out and just do it.



So, if all my dive buddies are diving singles with recreational (non-DIR) setups, is moving to doubles a bit overkill?

This is the flip-side of the discussion. Why should your buddy's choice of gear matter? As long as you're both wearing gear that's fit for purpose I don't see the issue.



Should I save the move to doubles for when I have a more definite timeline for tech, and for when I start diving with others that are diving doubles?
yes on the first part, "who cares" on the second part. Once again, what your buddy is wearing is irrelevant as long as you both have gear that's fit for purpose.

R..

[JimC]

What he said ^2.

[TSandM]

You know, thinking about this, I realized that there isn't any particular reason why your buddies need to know anything about your doubles, really, so long as YOU can reach your valves. If YOU can't reach your valves, then you've added a whole bunch of failure points (o-rings and valves and manifold) and not gained any redundancy from it, because you can't utilize the gas conservation advantages that being able to turn off a post or isolate can give you.

Your buddies need to know how things work if you're incurring deco obligations, and can't abort a dive. But as long as you're staying recreational, and you can reach your valves, you should be able to deal with an emergency well enough to make an exit without your buddy having to intervene, except possibly to share air, which we should all be able to do, doubles or no.

[metaldector]

Living in Florida near the caves, doubles are really the only way to go, be that side mount doubles (two tanks) or back mount doubles. The only gas you've got is on you unless you can sip air though 85 feet of rock?! My steel single tanks are just sitting in the garage now, while I use the steel 95's almost every weekend.

[Whale Whisperer]

Why did I start diving doubles?

!!!Rule Number Six!!!

[ae3753]

LG Diver,

It was good to meet you today. As I mentioned, I took the Mini Doubles, and for us it was a great introduction to doubles diving. Here's my class report (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=126005).

Ultimately, we chose to dive doubles because of caves. However, at the time of Mini Doubles, we were just out there learning, and had no intention of diving doubles.

Since your LDS is next door to us, PM me if you want to try some tanks.


I use the steel 95's almost every weekend.

I know that 95s are popular in the Florida, but I haven't seen these doubled in Northern California. I actually have some single 95s since they were the preferred tanks when I dove in Austin. However, they sit in the garage every weekend while I dive double LP85s.

[LG Diver]

LG Diver,

It was good to meet you today. As I mentioned, I took the Mini Doubles, and for us it was a great introduction to doubles diving. Here's my class report (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=126005).

Ultimately, we chose to dive doubles because of caves. However, at the time of Mini Doubles, we were just out there learning, and had no intention of diving doubles.

Since your LDS is next door to us, PM me if you want to try some tanks.



I know that 95s are popular in the Florida, but I haven't seen these doubled in Northern California. I actually have some single 95s since they were the preferred tanks when I dove in Austin. However, they sit in the garage every weekend while I dive double LP85s.

H Don,

It was great meeting you and Elissa, Ben, Rob, Delia, Jonathan, Ted, and everyone else yesterday (my apologies, I know I met a few other very nice folks, whose names escape me at the moment). Diving with Ben and Rob on the first dive was very cool, despite my little battle with my drysuit while Ben was practicing a bag shoot :( Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, Jonathan very generously offered to let me use his X-scooter for dive two, and Delia, Ben, Rob and I scootered out to the barge. Unbelievable is the only way I can describe it. Since Delia wasn't around to watch my drysuit acrobatics on the first dive, I decided I'd demo it all again for her. She wasn't kidding when she said that scooters can hide bad buoyancy skills. It's amazing how much air you can trap in your drysuit without realizing it if you're not on top of things as you're ascending while scootering.

Despite my spastic outbreaks in front of everyone, I had an incredible time. I'll definitely be taking you up on the offer to try out some doubles soon. Looks like I need to start a "doubles and scooter" fund. :D

Thanks again to everyone,
John

[TSandM]

Oh, great, you hooked up with the wonderful Monterey crew I dove with in October. You couldn't have better companions, although their company can be EXTREMELY expensive in the long run :D

[Ben_ca]

The secret to X-Scooters.....

They are filled with Kool Aide :D


Great diving with you John.... Now if you go broke because of scooter lust don't blame me :)

[LG Diver]

Hmmmm, let's see. The Christmas/birthday/Father's Day wishlist now goes:

double x7-100's
new regs
new wing
can light
scooter :11:



.... Now if you go broke because of scooter lust don't blame me :)

Oh, don't worry my wife will blame all of you equally :D