Long hose for recreational diving?

[Atticus]

Hopefully this won't stir the pot too much.

I dive an Apeks reg setup DS4/ATX50/ATX40 and do "normal" recreational diving (130', non-penetration) and occasionally help with an open water class.

The primary hose is a little short for me and I feel like the reg is getting tugged from my mouth when I turn my head to the left. I've been reading the DIR posts and gear configuration suggestions and have been toying with the notion of 'as long as I'm buying a new hose maybe I should go for a really long hose'.

I like some of the advantages I've read about using a long hose, especially in an emergency. On the negative side, I think it might cause some confusion in the context of a PADI OW class, or at least a bunch of questions that will distract students from getting their basic training with the gear that they rented from the shop.

My reality is that I'm not going to run out and buy a whole DIR rig this month, and I'm not going stop working with OW students.

Also, it's been suggested that it would be hard to find (or have made?) a hose with the proper (non-standard) sized connector for the Apeks DS4 first stage.

What do you guys think?

[Uncle Pug]

If you go with the long hose then you will be donating that in an OOA situation... so you will also need to go with a bungeed backup second stage.

I find the 7' hose ideal for everything... it is much more streamlined than regular length hoses.

Get an adapter for the 1/2" port ... they're cheap... or put your backup on that hose (thought IMO the standard hose is really too long for that) and put your long hose on one of the standard sized ports.

[Scubaroo]

Doesn't the DS4 have 4 x 3/8" LP ports?

[jonnythan]

I use the long hose for rec diving, I encourage you to do so also..

But I think it's a bad idea for helping with an OW class. Ask the instructor.

And yeah, the DS4 has all 3/8" LP ports.

[SM Diver]

I just had this exact conversation this past Friday. I was trying out some new gear, and my second stage was hung up a little in the back, and eveytime I would turn my head to the left, it felt like it was going to rip out of my mouth. I had to put a major jaw clamp on the reg to keep it from coming lose. It was probably not so much an issue of the hose being to short, as it would have been all right had it not hung up.

At the surface, I talked with my buddy about the concept of using a 7' hose in a recreational setting. He has a 7' primary, but then again, he cave dives and has to potentially pass it to someone sliding through a small opening.

Our (my) conclusion was that for a strictly non-penetration, open water application the 7' hose would NOT be needed. If you donate air, why do you need 7', or to even donate your primary? Regardless, if someone grabbed my primary out of my mouth, you could simply take the octo. I would have the air recipient grab on to my BC and start the ascent. I don't want them drifting seven feet from me. We're not having to pass through small openings. They're probably stressed anyway and will be just as happy to clamp on to me and let me "drive."

By all means, if your hose is really too short, then have it lengthened some. But, I would suspect it's probably a way you have it configured coming off your first stage.

I just can't think of a single advantage of having to wrap a long hose around me every dive in open water.

[herman]

Atticus once bubbled...

The primary hose is a little short for me and I feel like the reg is getting tugged from my mouth when I turn my head to the left. I've been reading the DIR posts and gear configuration suggestions and have been toying with the notion of 'as long as I'm buying a new hose maybe I should go for a really long hose'.


How about a compromise, a 5 ft hose. I had the same problems with my Zeagle (aka Apex)reg. I had to rearrange the ports I was using but otherwise it was an easy replacement. It takes only a minute to replace so if diving it with students is a problem, just switch between the 2. I have found it's a lot easier on the jaws, the tugging from the hose was completely eliminated.

[Wendy]

Just get the 5' hose.

[Uncle Pug]

I didn't notice the DS4... no problem with the ports.

However... to answer Scott... once you practice OW ascents air sharing with a 7' hose you see the benefit. The extra length allows each diver to adjust and control their ascent without pulling the other one out of whack.

You might want to watch the longhose air sharing video on the 5thD site to see what I mean.

While a 5' hose might work for a gal or a smaller fella... most guys will be better off with the 7'... we have had several OW divers on the board try 5' 6' 7' hoses and settle on the 7'.

But as has been said if you are helping with an OW class it might not be appreciated.

[Genesis]

I find that the 7' hose is MUCH more comfortable to breathe. It doesn't pull in my mouth at all, no matter which way I turn.

My backup, on a 22" hose, similarly lays nice and also doesn't pull. Neither gets in the way or has any hose hanging out where it can get caught on things either.

Unless you're going to go to a REAL short primary, I doubt you can get anything close to the comfort of a 7' primary and bungied backup with a "traditional" OW setup. I tried and couldn't.

As for the "donate the octo" stuff, that's all nice and well when someone swims up to you, calmly motions that they are out of air, and waits for you to fumble around and find your octo to give to them. In the real world I suspect that what will really happen is that you'll be mugged; the diver who is truly out of air and in trouble will go for anything that bubbles without giving you any warning at all. :)

For me, anyway, its not about being able to swim out single-file, since I don't do caves or the inside of wrecks. It IS about comfort, and both the long hose and bungied backup are simply WAY more comfortable for me to dive with. Out of water the bungied backup is a non-event, and the primary gets clipped off. I find that on the boat the long hose rig is actually LESS likely to dangle and get banged around than a "regular" setup.

[Rick Murchison]

Having tried 'em all over the years, I only rig my 7' hose for penetration dives. The rest of the time I prefer a short hose for my primary. Frankly this has more to do with topside handling than in-water, but I find zero advantage to the long hose where tandem (single-file) swimming isn't required, so I prefer not to mess with it.
Rick

[large_diver]

The ideal length can vary depending on various things -- port orientation, etc. I've heard come people say there is NO WAY a 5 foot hose is usable if you route it DIR-style under your right arm, across your chest, around the back of your head and into your mouth. I am 6'5" with a muscular chest -- I use a 5 footer no problem.

Another thing to consider -- If you are single tank diving without a canister light or something else to hook the hose on at your hip, a 7 foot gives you extra slack. This doesn't have to be a problem (you can loop the extra under your harness strap if diving a BP or under the end of your BC or cumberbund if using a jacket BC)...just something to consier.

One option would be to order 5, 6 & 7 and try them out -- send back the 2 you don't want. Extreme Exposure in FLorida will take them back with no questions asked -- you just pay the freight (minimal given the low weight of hoses).

Good luck.

[MikeFerrara]

I use a 7' hose for everything. I think a shorter hose is acceptable for OW but I dress the same for all occassions and sharing air is easier with a longer hose. The long hose routing is also more streamlined.

As for diving with students all my DM's also dive with a long hose. At present student use an octo length primary with a short bungied backup.

[lanun]

5' hose works for me. my regular buddy used the same config. the hose routing is kept neetly streamlined, and when it really counts, it worked (i have had to donate air and the long hose config is just sweet for that.)

things to watch out for (my personal experience, others might beg to differ) ...

1) a 7' hose probably would serve me better when donating since it gives more manuevering room e.g. when you need to swim across the donatee's body to get to the 'right side', and when i go for other classes e.g. overhead/penetration type.

2) need to really explain your OOA procedure to the buddy who might not be familiar with your set-up

3) as you prep your gear, mind your neighbors on the boat as the hose is long and can be a tripping hazard (and i'm not just talking about the occasional folks who walk in their fins :rolleyes: )

[Scubaroo]

lanun once bubbled...
3) as you prep your gear, mind your neighbors on the boat as the hose is long and can be a tripping hazard (and i'm not just talking about the occasional folks who walk in their fins :rolleyes: ) First thing I do when setting up my reg is clip off the boltsnap on the long hose to the right shoulder D-ring of the harness, and then I go ahead and attach my first stage to the valve. Keeps your second stage out of harms way.

[JeffG]

Atticus once bubbled...
... On the negative side, I think it might cause some confusion in the context of a PADI OW class, or at least a bunch of questions that will distract students from getting their basic training with the gear that they rented from the shop.
...

I think that if the Instructor was OK with it, you could be used as an example to the students of the importance of the "buddy check/procedure discussion" that they will need in the "wild". I doubt that would overload a student that much.

[lanun]

i do that too, scubaroo. what do you do with the hose, though ? do you wrap it around the 1st stage twice to keep it nicely bundled ?

[Scubaroo]

Once I've screwed the DIN fitting, I hang the backup by it's bungee over the valve, and then usually do one loop with the 7' hose and hang that over the valve as well. And then the canister light cord gets hooked behind the valve as well. No danglies on deck - it's just asking for some clutz next to you to sit down with a tank on their back, and either mash you second stage or light head or SPG or <insert expensive piece of equipment guaranteed to ruin your day here> etc etc

[MikeS]

Seeing the difference during an OOA drill with sillygrendel, who had a long hose while I didn’t, convinced me that the long hose was the way to go. The big difference is that you can independently control your own buoyancy while sharing air. This makes it much easier to control your rate of ascent. Additionally, it allows you to effectively swim horizontal, say to the anchor line, while sharing air.

I have a TX100 but I don’t like the ½” to 3/8” adaptor approach. You can buy hoses with the ½” fitting from 5th D, for example the 6’ is at http://fifthd.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=5AG&Product_Code=6FLPH1P&Category_Code=RHHK

I first ordered the 5 foot but it was a bit short, so when sillygrendel got his canister light and went to a 7 foot hose, I bought his six foot. I’m much happier with it. 5th D also sells the bungee for the backup. It was worth getting one to see how it is made but I have since bought just the raw bungee cord and made my own spare, it’s easy when you have an example to follow.

I got a 22” hose for the backup and found it to be to short also, so I went back to the original 24”.

Mike

[NetDoc]

In the pool I use a traditional reg... two short hoses, one clipped off on my BC. I have to train the little munchkins how to donate and recieve and so it's monkey see, monkey do. However, on our first OW dive, I am diving an H valve with a 7' primary and bungeed second (same back inflate BC). I cover this with my students as to how I would donate if they needed it, but hey, we are past the demonstration stage. They all know what I expect of them. They do just fine with thier skills, and they get to see some different gear and ask questions where I know they will get the right answers. On our final OW dives, I am usually in a BP & wings with my doubles. Overkill? Not really. You see, I don't have to fiddle with tank changes and I get to talk with each one as they reset up their gear. They also get to see yet even more gear and ask even more questions from someone who will give them the right answers. Yes, I share my primary with each one of them in the ocean. They get a real feel for how I dive this way, and they learn something more. I see this as a progression for them, and they seem to take to it fairly readily.

[cyklon_300]

I have the 5' and it pulls my head ever so slightly...a 5' 2" hose would be perfect. Went back to my 7'...

For anyone who doubts the utility of the long hose concept, the first time you do an OOA drill with the long hose, the light bulb comes on and you will 'get it'....

[ElectricZombie]

I use a 7' hose for everything. I don't see any point in switching back and forth between configurations. I use my DIR rig with students without any problems. It's a decision that the Instructor would have to make though.

[dmdalton]

I also use a 7' for everything. Just taught my daughter to dive and she used a 7' as well. When I used to teach actively in the '70s I taught breathe/donate the long hose and backup on bungie under your chin.

Dave D

[ericfine50]

I use the 7 foot for all my diving. Once you dive it, you won't notice the difference.
Eric

[PA/NJdiver]

I have to agree with the others. I use a 7' hose for all my dives including dives with students (except in the pool). I agree with NetDoc. There is nothing wrong with exposing them to different gear and gear configurations.

[Atticus]

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments! I'll order the hose and let you know what I think after a couple of dives. If it becomes a hassle in classes then I'll switch out hoses or get a second reg setup.

--Atticus:)

[rustman]

I have been lurking around here for a little while now, trying to learn as much as possible.

Most of my questions have been answered by a simple search, but one question I can't find any answer to is:

If you lose your reg on a long hose, how do you go about recovering it?

Do you use your secondary and then start reeling it in?

It seems that the standard lean and sweep method as well as grabbing the hose at the first stage would not work very well.


Tom.

[Scubaroo]

rustman once bubbled...
If you lose your reg on a long hose, how do you go about recovering it?The long hose will hang across the back of your neck - if you spit the second stage out - it will just hang over your right shoulder. I suppose if you did have to recover it, the hose is long enough that you could just spin to the right in the water until the hose comes back into view - or your buddy would pass it to you. Either way you've got the bungeed backup under your chin (haven't you? :)) so you won't need to rush to get your breathing gas back. I've never had to try and recover mine - because of the chest and neck routing, it just stays in place!

[jonnythan]

rustman once bubbled...
I have been lurking around here for a little while now, trying to learn as much as possible.

Most of my questions have been answered by a simple search, but one question I can't find any answer to is:

If you lose your reg on a long hose, how do you go about recovering it?

Do you use your secondary and then start reeling it in?

It seems that the standard lean and sweep method as well as grabbing the hose at the first stage would not work very well.


Tom.

Well, first of all, it's damn near impossible to lose the second stage. Since it passes behind your neck, the majority of the hose is still draped across your chest and shoulder. If you do lose it, chances are it will be right next to your head, so you just grab it and go.. or grab the hose on your chest and follow it to the second stage.

If you do manage to get all 7 feet trailing behind you, the sweep definitely works just fine, as does reaching behind and grabbing the hose where it meets the first stage. Just grab the end of the hose, and run it under your arm as you follow the hose. You really shouldn't need to go to the backup, but if you were hit by a shark or something and needed a quick breath, the backup should be about an inch and a half from your chin. Grab it, breathe it, and simply drop it when you get your primary back.

Note that in the event you had your primary ripped away from you and trailing behind you when you were at the end of a breath and needed a quick breath, you get air much more quickly with the long hose. In a standard setup, grabbing the octo and removing it from the octo holder is about as slow as just retrieving the primary. With the long hose setup, you have air instantly right below your chin. And you don't have to restow the backup when you're done with it.. just let it drop from your lips. Your buddy should have his primary extended to you by this time ;)

Edit: Oh yeah, ben made a fine point I didn't even remember. If it's trailing behind you in the water, you just turn around and your second stage is suddenly in front of you. I've never managed to be in that situation, but it'll work just fine ;)

[Scubaroo]

Gee jonnythan, can I dive with you one day? :)

[jonnythan]

Scubaroo once bubbled...
Gee jonnythan, can I dive with you one day? :)

Hah.. you managed to say just about everything I did with about 1/3 the number of words ;)

I'm going to be out in (unfortunately, Southern) Cali Dec 3-19, but I'm not bringing my dive gear. If you ever make it out to New York, though, I'll show you beautiful Underwater Lake George and the pristine Hudson River! =-)

[Scubaroo]

jonnythan once bubbled...
I'm going to be out in (unfortunately, Southern) Cali Dec 3-19, but I'm not bringing my dive gearWhaaaaaaaaat? Make a day to see some kelp at least! I'm sure someone in NDI Southern California would be willing to hook up with you for a dive or two.

[Atticus]

First, let me correct myself by saying that in my original post I should have said "Apeks DST", not "Apeks DS4". That's why I was asking about the oddball sized port for the primary regulator. I've since purchased three DS4's and am enjoying the benefits of standard sized hose ports.

My buddy and I worked with a few classes using the long hose and found the following:

1. Most students didn't seem to notice the difference kitting up, etc.

2. If we had to demo a skill such as buddy breathing they got equally confused by an Air2 as they did by the long hose.

3. Doing a regulator recovery demo can be quite entertaining if you throw the reg overly enthusiastically.

I've since moved my long hose over to a DS4 for diving with doubles and am back to a "traditional" setup for OW classes.

Thanks for all the feedback!

--Atticus

[roakey]

Atticus once bubbled...
3. Doing a regulator recovery demo can be quite entertaining if you throw the reg overly enthusiastically.
First thing you do after throwing the reg over you shoulder is stick the backup in your mouth. Then you have all the time in the world to recover your primary.

Another reason this setup shines -- you're no longer in a race to get your reg before you run out of air.

Roak