I'm just going out for my OW cert, so it is premature for me to be buying gear. I need to develop a sense of how my spouse and I want to dive, and I know the standard advice of rent first, buy later.
However...
I also don't want to waste my time and money renting equipment that I don't ever plan on buying, or that is of poor quality.
bc - After browsing through this fine forum, I think I should be looking to get a bp/w, something like the Deep Sea Supply kydex hybrid. I live in Connecticut, and plan to dive both cold water and warm water. How will I ever find a way to rent such a thing?
Dry suit - I already have a 3mil, so I think getting a used dry suit would be much more sensible than going wet. I'll definitely want to take a class before using it, and it seems odd to rent the suit for a class just to confirm that I want to go dry.
Computer - I am pretty sure I want to go with a fairly inexpensive wrist mount, like the Mares M2. I may be wrong here, but I don't think there are many rental options for computers.
Given the fact that the three items above are 80% of my total equipment cost, I am starting to doubt the benefits of renting. Does it make sense in some cases to buy before renting, or is gear fever getting the better of me.:confused:
Please enlighten me.
-Nudgeroni
The Kraken
March 6th, 2007, 08:58 AM
Nudgeroni,
You made an excellent observation when your referred to the "gear fever". This usually strikes men with a much more debillitating effect than it does women when scuba diving classses are taken.
You're approaching your purchase of gear in the right frame of mind.
The only person who can answer your questions is yourself.
Only you know how much you'll be diving and what those diving environments will be. Project how much you think you'll be diving and the conditions in which you'll be diving and reduce it by, say 40% and then attempt to do an analysis of how much it's going to cost to rent the gear you'll need.
But I can tell you this . . . man to man . . . YOU'LL NEVER BE SATISFIED UNTIL YOU'VE PURCHASED YOU OWN GEAR!!!
It's just one of those male gizmo-gadget afflictions. :D
But I will share this, I think you will be a safer, better and happier diver if you own your own gear.
the K
oly5050user
March 6th, 2007, 09:00 AM
find a LDS that will apply the rental fees to your new purchases..will send pm
DiveMaven
March 6th, 2007, 09:31 AM
Keep in mind that many of us who purchased gear around the time we got first certified, have since replaced most or all of it with different stuff. I think that's why some folks recommend renting for a little while, so you can really figure out what you want in a practical way.
MelC
March 6th, 2007, 12:01 PM
I can see where the OP is coming from though. I rented for a year before I bought and in addition to having some sketchy encounters with less than well maintained equipment I also wasn't really given a wide variety of BCs or regs to choose from. Most of the rental shops only had jacket BCs in their rental line ups and while the regulators varied by brand they were usually all of similar quality (or lack thereof). So, did I get a whole lot from renting? As to computers, most shops will rent you a computer so you would have the opportunity to try out a few different kinds...this isn't necessarily a good thing though since you will have to get used to a wide variety of interfaces and displays and, unless you are diving the same dive sites with different computers you probably won't get a strong feel for the comparison between algorithms etc. Dry suits I know nothing about except that fit is important and I suspect that may be difficult to achieve in a series of rentals.
You are probably better off seeing if you can get into a group/club with some experienced divers who might be willing to lend you some kit for a try out if you were interested in it.
There was one advantage to renting though...knowing that I was committed to the sport before I dropped a large chunk of change.
MSilvia
March 6th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Whether or not you rent, it's a great idea to try before you buy.
bc - After browsing through this fine forum, I think I should be looking to get a bp/w, something like the Deep Sea Supply kydex hybrid. I live in Connecticut, and plan to dive both cold water and warm water. How will I ever find a way to rent such a thing?
I believe PG Dive in Newton, MA rents DSS BP/Wings, and it may be worth stopping by on a trip up to Cape Ann or a Boston Harbor Islands charter.
Dry suit - I already have a 3mil, so I think getting a used dry suit would be much more sensible than going wet. I'll definitely want to take a class before using it, and it seems odd to rent the suit for a class just to confirm that I want to go dry.
That would be odd. Personally, I knew I wanted a dry suit, and it wasn't hard to get a shop to throw in the class with the purchase. Again, I believe PG Dive does this too, so if you can't find a more local shop that will help you out, it may be worth talking to them about.
Computer - I am pretty sure I want to go with a fairly inexpensive wrist mount, like the Mares M2. I may be wrong here, but I don't think there are many rental options for computers.
I've seen them for rent at several shops, but you might have a limited selection. I'd say do some research, narrow down your choices, and find shops that will let you try those models out.
Nudgeroni
March 6th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far. I didn't know an lds might offer a deal like crediting rental cost towards a purchase, or a complimentary class. It gives me a better opportunity to shop around.
I think joining a scuba club might be a good option to put into play, too. I'll have to do some browsing through the forums for recommendations.
I think I'll revisit the whole buy/rent thing after my aow class and a handful of dives-- I should be able to hold off the urge to buy for at least a season (as long as my will power holds out).
-Nudgeroni
Rainer
March 6th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Whether or not you rent, it's a great idea to try before you buy.
I believe PG Dive in Newton, MA rents DSS BP/Wings, and it may be worth stopping by on a trip up to Cape Ann or a Boston Harbor Islands charter.
That would be odd. Personally, I knew I wanted a dry suit, and it wasn't hard to get a shop to throw in the class with the purchase. Again, I believe PG Dive does this too, so if you can't find a more local shop that will help you out, it may be worth talking to them about.
I've seen them for rent at several shops, but you might have a limited selection. I'd say do some research, narrow down your choices, and find shops that will let you try those models out.
PG Dive rents both DSS and Halcyon BP/Ws (rental fee can be applied to purchase as well). Dry suit purchase includes the course for free. It's a great shop to check out if you want to get your hands dirty with some nice gear (rental regs are also Atomic B2s, which are better than at most other places I had tried). I also agree with Matt that being able to try before you buy is a great positive. That said, I couldn't be happier that I bought my own gear after about 10 dives. First, it was killer expensive renting. Second, as you said, most places don't have a large variety of gear, so its often difficult to see everything anyway. I tried reading up as much as I could, then going shopping. Also helps if you have a shop that will take back gear once used if you decide it wasn't for you (thank you PG Dive for taking back my Zeagle Ranger for a DSS BP/W!).
Ultimately, the greatest reason for buying (IMO, and for what it's worth, my girlfriend also agrees) is that it keeps you diving. And I don't mean because you simply have gear lying around. For us (both poor graduate students), it was quite an investment. Once the money was spend, however, we weren't going to let it go to waste. The financial commitment up front inspired us to get out diving a lot more than when we renting. We haven't looked back since.
ianw2
March 6th, 2007, 07:03 PM
The disadvantage to buying equipment at this stage of the game is that you don’t know what you like and what you don’t like as far as equipment goes. The chances of replacing a piece of gear because you just can’t stand it after five dives are high.
The advantages to buying now are:
1) you aren’t wearing/mouthing someone else’s worn out/grunged up stuff;
2) you’ll dive a heck of a lot more because you don’t have to cough up a chunk of money every time you want to dive ($50/set up package/day in So Cal – 2X per month for 12 months = $1,200!!!)
3) you don’t have to get used to a new piece of gear EVRY TIME YOU RENT. You will get used to using YOUR gear.
4) If you like diving, you’ll NEVER be satisfied until you OWN your own gear.
Laura and I bought our own sets of gear before our first pool session of our OW class. Even with a hectic schedule, running our own business, surgery, kids, family and holidays, we’ve managed to get in some 40 dives since getting certified last August. We’ll be bagging another three dives aboard the Magician, tomorrow! (Yeehawww!!! First time back in the water after my shoulder surgery!!!)
I see this question come up on a regular basis. Every time, I see others advise against buying your gear early. I respectfully disagree. BUY YOUR GEAR AS SOON AS YOU CAN AFFORD IT!!! Although you may well replace the entire set up within the first few years, you will dive A LOT MORE! And that’s the key to becoming a better diver.
Ian Wilson
spectrum
March 6th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Salutations,
I'm just going out for my OW cert, so it is premature for me to be buying gear. I need to develop a sense of how my spouse and I want to dive, and I know the standard advice of rent first, buy later.
However...
I also don't want to waste my time and money renting equipment that I don't ever plan on buying, or that is of poor quality.
bc - After browsing through this fine forum, I think I should be looking to get a bp/w, something like the Deep Sea Supply kydex hybrid. I live in Connecticut, and plan to dive both cold water and warm water. How will I ever find a way to rent such a thing?
Your have recognized the dirty little secret about trying gear. In most areas what you can rent is probably not what you want to buy. Renting for a few dives can still serve some purposes. It lets you gain some certainty that diving is for you and gives you some baseline outside of the checkout-dive experience.
Edit, I just saw the posts that you have some real options. Take advantage of those opportunities!
Congratulations on your intentions to be active local divers. It's the key to becoming proficient and safe divers.
Also by getting out there in rental gear you expand the opportunities to perhaps test dive some borrowed gear. Let it be know here on SB that you'd like to test dive an item. When I did that several area divers stepped forth with offers. Divers are cool like that. :)
You probably realize that with the BP/W you have the options of having multiple plates. You can have a nice heavy SS plate for local diving and the kydex for vacation. If you go with a hogarthian harness which is as cheap as dirt you can keep both plates laced and just transplant the wing, that's there the $$ are.
Dry suit - I already have a 3mil, so I think getting a used dry suit would be much more sensible than going wet. I'll definitely want to take a class before using it, and it seems odd to rent the suit for a class just to confirm that I want to go dry.
Taking the DS class is a good thing and can usually be had for free as part of the purchase deal. If you go used and find yourself in the company of a good mentor that can be a good alternative form of instruction.
If you plan to be a year round local diver then starting with the DS is a real good idea, especially for your wife. The ladies tend to chill first, that's just the way it is. There is a body of divers that will say dry is the only way to go. I vastly prefer to be wet from Memorial day to November first and I'm in Maine. Each type of suit has it's advantages and the important thing is to get into something that gets you two out there diving. In the end a wardrobe tends to evolve.
Computer - I am pretty sure I want to go with a fairly inexpensive wrist mount, like the Mares M2. I may be wrong here, but I don't think there are many rental options for computers.
Unless you have a knock you socks off dive intensive vacation coming up quick you can take your time on the computer. Any non-integrated nitrox computer will prove to be a good value. Mount it anywhere you like.
Given the fact that the three items above are 80% of my total equipment cost, I am starting to doubt the benefits of renting. Does it make sense in some cases to buy before renting, or is gear fever getting the better of me.:confused:
No doubt there is a case of gear fever in your household, it's normal and healthy. Limited renting can be worthwhile for the reasons I mention. Extensive research here and elsewhere is essential. Becoming gear savvy is in many ways tougher than getting OW certified.
Pete
Please enlighten me.
-Nudgeroni
shotthebreeze
March 6th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Nudgeroni, what part of CT are you from? I'm from the Litchfield area. If you need any help with gear or have questions about anything and you're within a half an hour, I would take a ride to Central Sales in Thomason. Ken should be able to help you out. He's the man...
427Dave
March 6th, 2007, 09:03 PM
Here is how it went for me. Buying new equipment is, like Kracken stated, a man thing:D
1960 - Ordered all new Healthways from J.C. Penny including J-Valve tank
1960-1975 Added a few items each year. Another better regulator
1975 - Too much new stuff kept coming out, bought all new equipment and another tank. New type BC, weight integrated and back inflate (AT-PAK)
1975-1995 added a couple more tanks and better regulators.
1995 - Moved so I let my wife talk me into selling most of the gear and rented. Thought renting would be the answer to the ever changing technology:rofl3: and doing mostly vacation diving now so my bags became a lot lighter.
2005 - Tired of getting worn out rental equipment and did not like the jacket BC's. Missed my old back inflate BC (AT-PAK by Watergill) Started buying gear again, Zeagle Wing.
2007 - Bought new steel tanks 3442 psi, don't like AL80's (course traveling everyone seems to have nothing but AL80's anymore)
So see you just got to have all your own stuff:D I have basically replaced my entire diving equipment every 15 years. So it will last for a long time with proper maintenance and care. Even though the inital expense is high in the long run, vers rental equipment charges, I believe I have come out better. And your own gear is always so much better as you picked it out and it is personized. Now I am back to heavy bags on trips, which my wife gives me a hard time about, but it is my own!
Have fun!
UWSojourner
March 6th, 2007, 09:22 PM
Theorum 1 on New OW Diver Purchases: Without research a new OW diver has an 80% chance of purchasing gear they will later regret and sell.
Theorum 2 on New OW Diver Purchases: With all the research in the world, with few exceptions, a new OW diver has an 40% chance of purchasing gear they will later regret and sell.
Theorum 3 on New OW Diver Purchases: You have a 100% chance of purchasing gear you will later regret and sell if you walk blind into a shop and say, "What do I need".
Corollary to Theorum 1 & 2 & 3 The proper new purchase methodology is (1) do some research including asking divers, (2) buy something that sounds good to you, (3) dive the heck out of it, (4) adjust, and (5) go back to step (1).
Conclusion: There is an inescapable law of gear reappraisal for a new active diver. It will take a while to hone in to what you want.
spectrum
March 6th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Corollary to Theorum 1 & 2 & 3 The proper new purchase methodology is (1) do some research including asking divers, (2) buy something that sounds good to you, (3) dive the heck out of it, (4) adjust, and (5) go back to step (1).
Conclusion: There is an inescapable law of gear reappraisal for a new active diver. It will take a while to hone in to what you want.
That is true and the thing is to take your best shot and get out there and enjoy diving.
I broke my own rule on the gear for my wife and my self. On our last certification dive were were 100% in our own gear. A lot of research here and at dive shops went into doing that. We also took a number of BCs into a number of dive shop pools to weed out some dislikes. All of that original gear is still serving us well so we lucked out.
Another way to look at the issue is to bounce it against typical rental rates. Well before my first summer was up I was already money ahead. For the risk I had the convenience of having my gear ready and standing by. I got to dive gear I knew and trusted. If I messed up the gear would still have considerable resale value so it's not like it's a total loss. Give it your best shot and have at it.
Pete
Nudgeroni
March 6th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I live near Hartford, so Central Sales is out (too bad, Shotthebreeze), but PG Dive is a great option on the way to the MA shore (thanks Rainer and Spectrum). I can skip out of work early some time for the dry suit pool class. It's nice to have another $$ saving option besides buying used.
...
Reading what I just wrote, I have to laugh, "money saving?!" It reminds me of that I Love Lucy episode where Lucy describes to Dezi how she has been "saving" money on a shopping spree. I think in a few months, I'll have some "splaining" to do.
Oh, the fever. It hurts. I'm glad to know that if I'm crazy, at least I'm not alone.
If anyone has tips on softening up a practical minded wife, let me know (I'm sure there are numerous threads on this).
-Nudgeroni
ZzzKing
March 6th, 2007, 11:56 PM
If anyone has tips on softening up a practical minded wife, let me know (I'm sure there are numerous threads on this).
-Nudgeroni
My wife dives and I STILL get those sidewalks looks and "How much have you spent on dive gear?". :D
lmorin
March 7th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Ok, re the wife, here is what we did. 1) We took the widespread advice to rent first (of course, this did not include fins, mask and snorkle). 2) Rented everything else until we began to rationalize along the lines that other folks here have posted, i.e., it's better to own. 3) First to go (after about 8 dives) was the rented wetsuit. We bought, rationalizing that it was the item that could be satisfactorily purchased in the absence of a lot more knowledge. 4) Then, after about 8-10 more dives, we decided that we truly wanted to keep diving and that provided the most basic bit of rationalization: it's better to own because you know your own equipment and, hence, "owning" becomes a safety factor (which, incidentally, I believe is true for most divers who own and is not simply a rationalization). 5) In those 8-10 dives, we experienced a several that included less that satisfactory rental gear (regs breathed wet; there was no place to put the octo or the octo had to be rigged in a different place or different manner for each BC rented). 6) We tried a variety of equipment in nearby LDSs and found items that suited our desires and needs (e.g., we were not after cold water regs; I liked the comfort of the Seaquest Balance BC and my wife liked the Diva). 7) Having identified reasonable BCs, regs/octos and computers, we approached 2 LDSs to create packages for us. As a result, we got competitive pricing, paid cash and saved quite a bit of money. As a result of this strategy, we did not buy until we had a bit of experience and knowledge, particularly about the variety of gear available. We are happy with the big items we purchased. My wife is into her third pair of fins, but I think that reflects more about her and her relationship to footwear than it does about dive equipment!
