Well all is not quiet on the home front needless to say. I her faint echo's in the background of my bliss "Greg why did you have to spend all that money". I could not help myself.
Originally had a D80 but upgraded to a "grey market" D200 for the same price. Only downfall is that the software (picture project) came in Japanese. The D80 was never housed and sold it for the same price I paid (almost)
My new set up is a Nikon D200 w/60mm lens, Sea and Sea housing, 2 Inon Z240. All purchased from my friend at www.fun-in.com.tw or english version www.divervision.com
Im going diving now with it and will post more pics tonight.
Congrats on the sweet rig! You're going to love the D200. Excellent choice of first lens too.
Jamdiver
March 29th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Way to go!
That's a kick ***** rig and can't wait to see your shots from it :).
Nice Whop coral in your avatar by the way...
alcina
March 29th, 2007, 09:18 PM
Woohooo! Now go get wet!
Cacia
March 29th, 2007, 11:16 PM
Hey! you have my admiration for having the guts to buy one in Japanese.
I could have, how bad could it be to learn Japanese on a few buttons?
But...I was a chicken, too afraid, so I paid 600 dollars more and got the legit version, I regret it. Way more satisfying to do what you did.
Looks like a sexy set-up, all tricked out in double strobes.
CUunderH2O
March 30th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Nice setup. How do you like the S & S housing? I'm thinking of getting one for my D80.
victor
March 30th, 2007, 10:02 AM
Looks great,
Opinions on the Sea & Sea housing please
Do you have TTL with the Z240 strobes?
What made you choose this lens?
Any plans for other lenses?
Sorry about all the questions but I am looking at a very simillar system in the near future.
Fastmarc
March 30th, 2007, 12:16 PM
Geez..... that is sweet.
shellbackdiver1
March 30th, 2007, 10:59 PM
I could have, how bad could it be to learn Japanese on a few buttons?
But...I was a chicken, too afraid, so I paid 600 dollars more and got the legit version, I regret it. Way more satisfying to do what you did.[/I].
Only the picture project software was in Japanese. The camera has several languages that can be selected...including English.
shellbackdiver1
March 30th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Nice setup. How do you like the S & S housing? I'm thinking of getting one for my D80.
I mainly considered 2 housings, Nexus and Sea and Sea due to having the opporntunity to compare them side by side for several long visits at Fun-In's shop in Tainan.
I thought of Ikelite for the cost and built in ttl. But I shore dive 90% of the time so I wanted something all metal. If Patima had a housing for the D200 I would have purchased it, they are very nice and low cost. They do have one available for the D80
The Nexus lines are smooth, there was no play in any of the knobs and buttons due to close tolerances, many more port selections are available, no need for sync cables cause it has ports for 2 optical cables as well and the hand grips were very nice. The Nexus has a very well made, elegant and balance housing. Its off-white color. Not all functions are available. I can't remember which ones are not available but they were minor and probable no issue for most of us. The AE F/L function was ackward....a person would have to stretch the thumb up and over the housing to use. I plan on shooting macro most of the time so this may be an issue. Cost difference was minor. Informed, no proof though, that there as been issues using ttl converters. No leak sensor...again I do shallow shore diving (entrances and exits can be exciting) so i want a light glaring in my eye if there is a leak. I do have to say that most here in this area purchase the Nexus over the Sea and Sea.
The Sea and Sea housing is all black, feels good in my hands, seems a little tougher, leak sensor, all functions available with several lock positions so that fuctions that require the use of two buttons can be done with hand, optional S&S ttl converter (works with Inon Z240 flashes) available with no connection issues, AE F/L function simple to use with trigger thumb funtion in a natural position. On the down side....Limited port selection, Not as good button and knob tolerances, lines are not that clean, no optical strobe connections.
shellbackdiver1
March 30th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Looks great,
Opinions on the Sea & Sea housing please.
Its nice....see my above post.
Do you have TTL with the Z240 strobes?.
In the very near future I may get it. Advised to try and shoot manual and see how it goes. I guess TTL is nice to have for micro. You are talking to a complete novice here.
What made you choose this lens?
This board.
Any plans for other lenses?
yeah....10.5mm fisheye with optical port, and 18-55mm for those dives that I am confused on which lens to take. I know that it is not the best lens choice but most of the time I am picture taking to document my dive rather then trying to obtain National Geographic quality.
shellbackdiver1
March 31st, 2007, 12:35 AM
I was dissappointed with my first attempt. I am used to shooting a Canon S80 with a single YS25 strobe in manual mode. Just because I used it for such a long time I knew if it was a good shot or not.
There is definately a learning curve that I need to overcome. Several of my shots did not turn out because I had the strobes too close together from shooting close up at high aperature settings....then I would decide to shoot a fish, change the aperature, adjust the direction of the strobe but not the distance of strobes from camera, result backscatter that I could see underwater looking at the results. Now i know. Also most of my close up pictures were too bright.
The photos have been slightly cropped and edited. Visibility was quite low on all 3 of my shore dives.
Did I mention that walking over lava rock with this set up is a real pain in the A%$!
I bought a Sea and Sea housing for my D-200 last December, along with the large dome port for the 12-24 DX lens. I have been extremely happy with it, shooting two SB-105's in manual. (You can see my first few shots with it at www.h2ophotopros.com (http://www.h2ophotopros.com) customer photos gallery)
Anyway..., I have a question: I noticed in your housing photo you have one strobe connected to the strobe port bulkhead on the housing, and the other strobe connected to..., what is suppose to be the port for Sea and Sea's iTTL converter. Does this port fire the strobe sucessfully? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks!
They both fire without a problem. I noticed some other Sea & Sea housings not to long ago at a local UW photography contest and they had it set up the same way. I will inquire at my local shop this week if there is any advantage/disadvantage to this set up.
pakman
April 2nd, 2007, 12:13 AM
Anyway..., I have a question: I noticed in your housing photo you have one strobe connected to the strobe port bulkhead on the housing, and the other strobe connected to..., what is suppose to be the port for Sea and Sea's iTTL converter. Does this port fire the strobe sucessfully? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks!
On the Canon 350D S&S housings, one of the nikonos bulkheads had to be converted to a 6pin to use the TTL converter. If you don't request this, it comes stock with two 5 pin bulkheads which you could connect to two strobes for manual control.
Shellbackdiver... nice setup and first pics! You might want to consider a Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye as an alternative to the Nikkor 10.5... It's really turning out to be a gem of a lens for cropped sensor dslrs.
BTW, where do you dive in Taiwan? Been thinking about seeing if there is any worthwhile diving up there considering it's a cheap/short hop from Hong Kong... Unfortunately my Mandarin speaking skills are non-existent!
shellbackdiver1
April 2nd, 2007, 07:05 AM
Shellbackdiver... nice setup and first pics!
Thanks
You might want to consider a Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye as an alternative to the Nikkor 10.5... It's really turning out to be a gem of a lens for cropped sensor dslrs.
I am looking for an alternative wide angle zoom. Have you seen any Sea & Sea housing with a Tokina lens. If so what dome port were they using?
BTW, where do you dive in Taiwan? Been thinking about seeing if there is any worthwhile diving up there considering it's a cheap/short hop from Hong Kong... Unfortunately my Mandarin speaking skills are non-existent!
I will PM you the details.
alcina
April 2nd, 2007, 07:48 AM
The lizardfish is great!
Instead of the 18-55 have you considered the Sigma 17-70 if it comes in the right mount? Or the 12-24? It's wider than the 18-55, of course, but a lovely lens.
pakman
April 2nd, 2007, 08:04 AM
I am looking for an alternative wide angle zoom. Have you seen any Sea & Sea housing with a Tokina lens. If so what dome port were they using?
.
Actually I do use a Tokina FE with my S&S Canon 350D housing, optical glass dome, and a 22mm extension. Hop over to wetpixel and search on Tokina fisheye. There have been a number of posts including pix from various Canon and Nikon users. In fact there are number of D200 owners using that lens as well (not sure which housing though).
scubacathy
April 3rd, 2007, 06:22 PM
I have a question about your grey market nikon D200. I almost bought one too about 2 months ago. But they really scared me. They wanted me to upgrade and buy lens, but I have a nikon D100 and didn't need the lens. So I think they got really upset with me for that and told me it was a grey market camera and all in Japaness. The price was so cheap I thought I was getting ripped off, by this NY company. So I din't buy it... now I am sad after reading your post. If you had to do it again, would you buy it from the "grey market" again? If you say yes, then I am getting one tonight!!
Warren_L
April 3rd, 2007, 06:27 PM
I have a question about your grey market nikon D200. I almost bought one too about 2 months ago. But they really scared me. They wanted me to upgrade and buy lens, but I have a nikon D100 and didn't need the lens. So I think they got really upset with me for that and told me it was a grey market camera and all in Japaness. The price was so cheap I thought I was getting ripped off, by this NY company. So I din't buy it... now I am sad after reading your post. If you had to do it again, would you buy it from the "grey market" again? If you say yes, then I am getting one tonight!!
It sounds like the company you're dealing with is one of those bait and switch operations where they lure you in with a price that is too good to be true, only to say it's out of stock and try to switch you to something else. They also try to make you buy a whole bunch of other stuff at marked up prices and if you balk, it's suddenly out of stock and refuse to ship if all you buy is the camera. There have been numerous discussions about these types of operations here, which you can find if you do a quick search. Just walk away from these places.
One way is to do a google search on the name of the online shop + "review" and read about all the complaints if indeed they are doing this.
shellbackdiver1
April 3rd, 2007, 10:09 PM
I call my D200 grey market because: The shop owner goes to Japan, buys loads of D200's among other things, packs it all in the suitcase and then returns to Taiwan and sells them for about 300-600US under the normal price. I am not scared at all about buying it. I even got a Japan sales slip and registered it on the Nikon website. My camera came with Japan picture project and manual. But after I registered the camera I was able to download English versions of both.
If the camera breaks it has to go back to Japan and im with out a camera for awhile. Its the risk I take.
RonFrank
April 7th, 2007, 01:02 PM
You must be VERY careful purchasing a grey market body. First, you need to make sure that you can return the body if there are problems. My buddy just purchased a D200, and he went through two bodies. On his first body the flash would not work. On the second, he had hot pixels which hardly ruin's the camera, but he wanted none. His third body is fine.
He exchanged bodies twice with B&H. No hassle, they even paid for most of the shipping both ways.
The second thing is that if you DO need warranty service, well, good luck with that. Nikon USA will NOT touch grey market bodies unless you can prove you purchased the camera in the country it was intended for sale. Your only option is to ship the camera back to Japan. That would run you $100 in shipping alone.
A Nikon DSLR digital camera repair averages around $600. Ouch! This is based on Wolf camera sales techs, so my info is as good as their experience.
Another thing to consider is that MOST of these NY Bait and Switch places will NOT ship you a camera at the prices they advertise. The more reputable dealers are selling the D200 grey at around $1200. That's only a couple hundred in savings. They scam artists are selling them for $500 but I bet you will NOT see a camera unless you pony up for some accessories which are generally not anything I would own. Some dealers take apart the camera kit, so you pay $500 for the body, $200 for the battery and charger, $40 for the manual... etc.
Resale is another thing to consider. Grey market camera's have a LOT less resale value.
I generally don't by grey, but I have purchased a few lenses grey when the price difference was significant. I'd hesitate to purchase a IS/VR lens grey. Nikon will not supply the parts to non-authorized dealers to fix these lenses. So if you buy grey, make sure you get a good warranty from B&H, or whomever.
Cacia
April 7th, 2007, 02:06 PM
It sounds like the company you're dealing with is one of those bait and switch operations where they lure you in with a price that is too good to be true
I get sucked in like a moth towards a flame...lol.
For me, it feels like gambling but with more control...a rush. I did not buy grey (because of Ron, and me trying to have good judgement) and I feel I passed on a little thrill sometimes.
I'm envious when someone plays the game and "wins". Still, I struggle against my fundamental nature.
I can't figure it out in English, so it might as well be in Japanese.
The thing I don't get is I thought most everything was more expensive in Japan..the goods, the exchange...so how are deals to be "had"?
kinsontong
April 9th, 2007, 07:29 AM
I mainly considered 2 housings, Nexus and Sea and Sea due to having the opporntunity to compare them side by side for several long visits at Fun-In's shop in Tainan.
I thought of Ikelite for the cost and built in ttl. But I shore dive 90% of the time so I wanted something all metal. If Patima had a housing for the D200 I would have purchased it, they are very nice and low cost. They do have one available for the D80
The Nexus lines are smooth, there was no play in any of the knobs and buttons due to close tolerances, many more port selections are available, no need for sync cables cause it has ports for 2 optical cables as well and the hand grips were very nice. The Nexus has a very well made, elegant and balance housing. Its off-white color. Not all functions are available. I can't remember which ones are not available but they were minor and probable no issue for most of us. The AE F/L function was ackward....a person would have to stretch the thumb up and over the housing to use. I plan on shooting macro most of the time so this may be an issue. Cost difference was minor. Informed, no proof though, that there as been issues using ttl converters. No leak sensor...again I do shallow shore diving (entrances and exits can be exciting) so i want a light glaring in my eye if there is a leak. I do have to say that most here in this area purchase the Nexus over the Sea and Sea.
The Sea and Sea housing is all black, feels good in my hands, seems a little tougher, leak sensor, all functions available with several lock positions so that fuctions that require the use of two buttons can be done with hand, optional S&S ttl converter (works with Inon Z240 flashes) available with no connection issues, AE F/L function simple to use with trigger thumb funtion in a natural position. On the down side....Limited port selection, Not as good button and knob tolerances, lines are not that clean, no optical strobe connections.
Just wonder if you shoot in TTL or Manual on the strobes. I have the same camera, housing & strobe, but was told that the TTL converter by Sea & Sea won't work with Inon strobes. So used manual on both the strobe and the camera.
pakman
April 9th, 2007, 07:57 AM
Just wonder if you shoot in TTL or Manual on the strobes. I have the same camera, housing & strobe, but was told that the TTL converter by Sea & Sea won't work with Inon strobes. So used manual on both the strobe and the camera.
well Inon's aren't on the official compatible list for the S&S TTL converter but I've been using it for almost a year pretty much without a hitch (other than the battery dying) for all my macro shots... This is with a Canon S&S housing and S&S TTL Converter...
shellbackdiver1
April 9th, 2007, 09:44 AM
I know 2 divers that use the S&S iTTL converter with Inon strobes with no issues. I do remember something in the Inon advanced user manual about ability to use S&S converter but make no promises about results. This leads me to believe that Inon knows it works.
Currently I only use manual on the strobes.
Just reviewed my pictures after 4 days of diving and noticed quality was not very good. I shot the entire weekend at ISO 800. I can't believe I did not notice that.
hunter991
April 9th, 2007, 11:12 AM
I bet they keep the prices just above cost on the camera hoping to upsell you on the lenses and make some profit there. I bet when you told them you didn't need any lenses they decided it wasn't worth selling you the camera. I am just guessing on this though. It's not a nice way to do business.
Brent
RonFrank
April 9th, 2007, 11:22 AM
I bet they keep the prices just above cost on the camera hoping to upsell you on the lenses and make some profit there. I bet when you told them you didn't need any lenses they decided it wasn't worth selling you the camera. I am just guessing on this though. It's not a nice way to do business.
Brent
No need to guess. They advertise prices BELOW cost. However cost generally includes those pesky items you really don't need, like a Battery! :D
They rarely refuse to sell you the camera at the advertised price, they just tell you it's back ordered, and they NEVER ship it. Unfortunately over the years I know a number of people who thought they were going to get the deal of a lifetime, and all they achieved was frustration.
Another thing to watch out for is the shipping costs. Many of these dealers will charge you $150 to ship the camera. They are GOING to make money on the deal, it's just a question of where.
They may not have EVERY camera listed below cost. But marketing has never been a nice game.
RonFrank
April 9th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Just reviewed my pictures after 4 days of diving and noticed quality was not very good. I shot the entire weekend at ISO 800. I can't believe I did not notice that.
One thing I have learned is too check the settings, and check them often. I still screw up, but if I'm doing a gig, I have found this be invaluable. Instead of messing up an entire day of shooting, I generally mess up a handful of shots.
Digital makes this easier with chimping, but you still need to pay attention to WB, Mode, and the standard ISO, shutter, aperture settings.
One thing I do when I shoot my DSLR UW is a pre dive camera check. I do this somewhat because I don't shoot much UW. Even with my pre dive check I left my 60mm macro in M mode on one dive last trip! :shakehead
RonFrank
April 9th, 2007, 11:31 AM
I call my D200 grey market because: The shop owner goes to Japan, buys loads of D200's among other things, packs it all in the suitcase and then returns to Taiwan and sells them for about 300-600US under the normal price. I am not scared at all about buying it. I even got a Japan sales slip and registered it on the Nikon website. My camera came with Japan picture project and manual. But after I registered the camera I was able to download English versions of both.
If the camera breaks it has to go back to Japan and im with out a camera for awhile. Its the risk I take.
You have the luxury of knowing the owner you are dealing with. Most grey market items in the US are shipped from Japan, or China, or where ever, and spend a month on a hot ship. This is one reason Nikon says they refuse to deal with grey under warranty. They have no control over the shipping conditions, and they SAY they have had major problems in the past with both bodies and lenses impacted by poor quality shipping conditions.
The second problem for US customers is that most retailers do NOT sell grey, so you are dealing with some faceless guy in NYC. If there are problems, you can not go and get in his face, he has none! :11:
Warren_L
April 9th, 2007, 12:40 PM
One thing I do when I shoot my DSLR UW is a pre dive camera check. I do this somewhat because I don't shoot much UW. Even with my pre dive check I left my 60mm macro in M mode on one dive last trip! :shakehead
That would suck if you don't have focusing gear! I do the same with the pre-dive checks too.
RonFrank
April 9th, 2007, 12:56 PM
That would suck if you don't have focusing gear! I do the same with the pre-dive checks too.
Yeah, it sucked. I saw a number of things on this dive I had not on others, and without a focusing gear, all I could do was to use my camera as a steering wheel! :D
Warren_L
April 9th, 2007, 01:09 PM
I did something similar one time with my 60mm. I was swapping lenses between dives and put the 60 on, but didn't turn it all the way until it clicked. Of course, the electronics didn't kick in on the lens and it could not focus. It became a paperweight at that point.
shellbackdiver1
April 9th, 2007, 08:30 PM
You have the luxury of knowing the owner you are dealing with. Most grey market items in the US are shipped from Japan, or China, or where ever, and spend a month on a hot ship. This is one reason Nikon says they refuse to deal with grey under warranty. They have no control over the shipping conditions, and they SAY they have had major problems in the past with both bodies and lenses impacted by poor quality shipping conditions.
The second problem for US customers is that most retailers do NOT sell grey, so you are dealing with some faceless guy in NYC. If there are problems, you can not go and get in his face, he has none! :11:
You are right, I personally know the owner, am there almost every night and we dive together. But again, everybody with a camera here on the island knows him, only for the legit underwater gear....not for cameras. He only does the camera thing for a few people.
