Equipment advice

[kyleterry]

I am new to scuba (about 3 years with about 40 dives). I am looking at buying my 1st set of gear and would appreciate any advice/recommendations.

What I am looking at is the following...


Genesis Phantom BCD
Dacor Eagle Sport Reg
Dacor Eagle alt air
Genesis react w/ compass

I mostly just dive in the Carribian, 2-4 trips a year. Moslty easy recreational dives, although I have done some cave diving.

Naturally I do not want to pay for more than I need, but quality and safety are far more important than budget. I am happy to pay more if the value is there for my purposes.

I appreciate all your comments and imput.

[thethumper]

kyleterry once bubbled...
I am new to scuba (about 3 years with about 40 dives). I am looking at buying my 1st set of gear and would appreciate any advice/recommendations.

What I am looking at is the following...


Genesis Phantom BCD
Dacor Eagle Sport Reg
Dacor Eagle alt air
Genesis react w/ compass

I mostly just dive in the Carribian, 2-4 trips a year. Moslty easy recreational dives, although I have done some cave diving.

Naturally I do not want to pay for more than I need, but quality and safety are far more important than budget. I am happy to pay more if the value is there for my purposes.

I appreciate all your comments and imput.

Well 1st, as I haven't seen you on the board... Welcome.
Next:
I would stay clear of the Dacor stuff. While some of there products aren't bad, having Dacor regs serviced is getting a bit tougher by the moment. I would rather see you diving a Sherwood/Genesis regs than Dacor (Let the flaming begin) :flame:

Next:
I can't say anything about cave diving w/o the proper training, but other folks here can... and will. However I am well on my way for Intro.

What I'm saying is that for the $ you can get a much better reg than what Dacor offers.

JMHO

[ElectricZombie]

Ok, I'll be the first to say it:

Have you cosidered a Backplate and Harness?

Do a search for "BP" or "backplate" for more info.

[drizzt117]

I have to agree with EZ when it comes to the BP/Wing. I'm sure you will here it from most people on this board.

I am more concerned with your reference to cave diving. I'm assuming from your # of dives listed (40) that you don't have a cavern certification let alone cave. Please do not attempt cave diving w/o proper training. The one time something goes wrong, like a silt out, and someone could be recovering your body.

As far as the regs go, I would go either with Apeks or Scubapro. Do a search on both and you will find a world of info. Hope that helps.

Thomas

[thethumper]

drizzt117 once bubbled...
I have to agree with EZ when it comes to the BP/Wing. I'm sure you will here it from most people on this board.

I am more concerned with your reference to cave diving. I'm assuming from your # of dives listed (40) that you don't have a cavern certification let alone cave. Please do not attempt cave diving w/o proper training. The one time something goes wrong, like a silt out, and someone could be recovering your body.

As far as the regs go, I would go either with Apeks or Scubapro. Do a search on both and you will find a world of info. Hope that helps.

Thomas

Thanks Thomas.....

I'm not really one to skold about the caving... I did it for far too long before certs., that's why I'm going the CDS route.

[roturner]

kyleterry once bubbled...
I am new to scuba (about 3 years with about 40 dives). I am looking at buying my 1st set of gear and would appreciate any advice/recommendations.

What I am looking at is the following...


Genesis Phantom BCD
Dacor Eagle Sport Reg
Dacor Eagle alt air
Genesis react w/ compass

I mostly just dive in the Carribian, 2-4 trips a year. Moslty easy recreational dives, although I have done some cave diving.

Naturally I do not want to pay for more than I need, but quality and safety are far more important than budget. I am happy to pay more if the value is there for my purposes.

I appreciate all your comments and imput.

Dacor are ok although I think for about the same price the Aqualung Titan series are worth a serious look. The first stages are comparable but I think Aqualung make especially good regs (Yes, I'm a bit biased. I've been using Aqualung regs since I started diving. My oldest one is an Auqualung Aquarius from 1974 which still works as well today as it did when it was new). Someone mentioned Sherwood already. Sherwood are indestructable but my experience is that the breathe too wet for my liking. I use a Sherwood as an Octopus and an Aqualung Legend LX Supreme as a primary.

Genesis is ok but impossible to service outside N. Armerica. I like the Genesis computers but if you are planning on going further afield at some point you should consider an Oceanic for the same price ans quality instead.

As for the BCD, if you're planning on getting serious about cave diving at some point you're making (in my opinion) the wrong choice. Visit your Halcyon and Diverite dealers for some better ideas.

Cheers,
R..

[MikeFerrara]

What cave have you dived?

[leadweight]

Forget the Dacor reg. Get a Scubapro MK25/S550 or S600. Skip the giant console and go with a SPG and a wrist mount computer, or a small hosemount AI unit like a Cobra. A compass is next to useless in the Caribe and there is no reason to have one stuck permanently on a console.

BC is harder to choose. Around here nobody likes jackets. Unless you are a photographer, go with back bouyancy. My favorite pick is the Transpac 2 with a travel wing. Other choices:
Seaquest Balance
Zeagle Scout or Escape

Backplates are poor choice for warm water recreational divers with a single 80. The straps on a BP are made from stiff weightbelt webbing and they chafe around the armpits when wearing no or light exposure protection. Backplates are hard to adjust and do not work right without a crotch strap. A single tank is mounted a couple of inches away from the back and results in a tippy feeling when the tank is full and increases the pushing forward on the surface when empty.

The BP guys are like missionaries. They are impossible to reason with and will recommend their BP to everyone regardless of application. Some will dismiss the problems without explanation and others simply admit to the discomfort and then say it is worth it.

[Iguana Don]

Get some training before doing any cave diving. I wouldn't even admit I have done any, as you sure are to receive some hearty flaming.

Second, stay away from Dacor equipment, it is Mares' stepchild and has no place for the type of diving you desire.

Just my .02

ID

[joens]

I suspect the reason you are thinking of getting a dacor reg is that the LDS you deal with sells them . do they sell anything else ? I looked on leisure pro's website the dacor sport reg is $159 some of the apeks and aqualung start at around 200 I didnt want this to turn into a LP thread I just wanted to compare the regs . I would suggest a different reg . which one depends on a lot of things . but if money is a factor there are other options that are better.
joens

[kyleterry]

Thank you all for your comments. My lds did recommend all this equitment. In addition to Decor and Genesis, he also has Sherwood and Cressi. I live in Columbus, Ohio, and there are a few other lds that I can talk to. This just happens to be the one that I got my c-card through.

I did speak to one other lds. He had products I hear mentioned more often, such as Scubapro and Mares, but he just keep pushing his most expensive products.

I have no problem paying whatever I need to pay, and can afford whatever I need to do. I just simply do not want to pay for more than I need.

I do want something that will last and has few problems. My sons are now certified, and we take some trips each year to the Islands to dive.

As far as the cave dive mentioned above, I do not think I was as clear as I should have been. I took a few trips into the cenotes in Mexico in the Yucatan. It was fantastic. I am looking to get my advanced cert. and my cave cert.

Bottom line- I am happy to pay whatever I need to get the best setup for my situation. I am just having a hard time getting advice from the lds that I have confidence in.

On a side note--I found this board while looking for advice on dive locations before some of my trips. All of the recommendations have been fantastic. I have had great trips to Belize, Bahamas, Cancun and Cozemel all thanks to the recommendations from all of you. Thank you for all your help.

Great board.:confused:

[ElectricZombie]

kyleterry once bubbled...

I do want something that will last and has few problems. .:confused:

A Halcyon Pioneer Backplate setup fits your description perfectly. As for the regs, ScubaPro is really outstanding. (I my opinion, probably the best breathing.) Someone will eventually recommend Apex too. They seem to be pretty popular.

[Cherry]

On the Regulator issue I would suggest you check out Rodales November Issue. they did what they call " The mother of all reg reviews" It may be very interesting from your perspective. Dacor didnt do real well in that review but then neither did Apeks and I love my ATX200. Have a look at the two IST regs very cheap but finished the best of all entry level regs. Aqualung titan did very very well and is real good price getting almost perfect scores in the simulation. Scuba pro R190 or R380 would be good and did very well in the survey so you would probably not go wrong there. But unless you are as self delusional as I am when it comes to justifying a new purchase based on desire you probably don't need to shell out the major dinero for a top of the line reg like the scuba pro M25 550/600. the December issue has a BCD review with their Testers choice and the Genisis Phantom made the grade. Actually it is the second cheapest with the Aqualung Maverick at 75 bucks cheaper.

Good luck :)

[GreenDiverDown]

Backplates are poor choice for warm water recreational divers with a single 80. The straps on a BP are made from stiff weightbelt webbing and they chafe around the armpits when wearing no or light exposure protection. Backplates are hard to adjust and do not work right without a crotch strap. A single tank is mounted a couple of inches away from the back and results in a tippy feeling when the tank is full and increases the pushing forward on the surface when empty.

There are many on this board who would disagree with Leadweight's comments... including myself. While the above might be true for some, many of us here are more comfortable in a BP/wing than in a traditional BC...even when wearing only light exposure protection. No chaffing here. No tippy feeling or forward pushing on the surface either. I will agree that adjusting a BP/wing can be quite trying and is much more difficult than adjusting a BC. But, once adjusted for a particular exposure suit, it is extremely easy to don and requires no further adjusting. I'm not sure that it is easier than donning a BC, but it really is effortless. To be fair, however, if you change from one exposure protection to another - say, change from a 2mil shortie to a drysuit, you will have to re-adjust the harness. Perhaps that is a point in favor of a BC and an advantage to something like the TPII. As far as the crotch strap is concerned...I like it. Though some might find a crotch strap uncomfortable, it doesn't bother me one bit and the additional stability it provides is a major advantage over 'crotch-strapless' BCs. (That's one of the cool things about a BP - there is next to no shifting of gear that can be so noticable in a BC.)

Despite the drawback of adjustment difficulty, I find that the many other advantages of a BP/wing make it great for all types of diving. I had to use a BC recently and even though it got the job done, I missed my BP/wing somethin' fierce.

SA

[roakey]

leadweight once bubbled...
Backplates are poor choice for warm water recreational divers with a single 80.
I dive Cozumel with a backplate and an AL80 and all I can say is that leadweight is absolutely and completely wrong.

The only two problems with backplates is they don't look sexy enough for the "color-is-your-most-important-equipment-consideration" crowd and they aren't that comfortable in the showroom.

So, if you're interested in doing all your diving on the showroom floor, by all means disregard the backplate. But once a BP hits the water, boy are they comfortable!

Roak

[sheck33]

roakey once bubbled...

I dive Cozumel with a backplate and an AL80 and all I can say is that leadweight is absolutely and completely wrong.

The only two problems with backplates is they don't look sexy enough for the "color-is-your-most-important-equipment-consideration" crowd and they aren't that comfortable in the showroom.

So, if you're interested in doing all your diving on the showroom floor, by all means disregard the backplate. But once a BP hits the water, boy are they comfortable!

Roak

:D :D You've taken the words out of my mouth! So true.

[ElectricZombie]

As far as I'm concerned, backplates are never a poor choice!

[Scubaroo]

kyleterry,

Cries of "buy a backplate" aside (I use one exclusively), the most important thing is buying something that you find comfortable in the water. A backplate can take some time to set up correctly, especially if you haven't seen one before. But definitely have a look at some back-inflation BCs - they are going to have some of the same in-water benefits of a backplate, such as horizontal trim, something no-one has mentioned yet. I'm guessing you just want something that's going to allow you to do some no-hassles vacation diving - if you're only averaging a little over a dozen dives a year, sticking to a regular BC isn't such a bad option as some would make out - it took me that many dives just to sort out my backplate webbing and tank mounting options. They're very modular. But now it's adjusted, I don't have to touch it. I'm guessing (again) you don't want to spend your next 2 or 3 dive vacations just getting your BC adjusted! But definitely take a look at back-inflation BCs (you'll hear that they push you face-forward at the surface but that's bunk). If after a couple of years you start diving on a more regular basis, take a look at backplates then. But for now, see if you can try-dive the gear you're looking at in a pool somewhere - the LDS will probably let you do this to make a sale. If the local selection is limited to Genesis, they make 2 different back-inflate BCs for you to try.

Seriously guys, you recommend a backplate to a vacation diver? It's not a "plug and play" piece of dive gear! Certainly no reason new divers can't use one (I started using mine on dive #10 or so), and there's no reason why students couldn't be certified in them, but recommending them to someone who dives irregularly, who probably isn't going to have the support or benefit of a diver familiar with them to help them set it up, makes no sense.

Ben

[kavka]

I would sugest Scuba pro MK 25 or MK18 (dirty water) and S600.
I own S550 and MK 25, but when swiming head down 550 free flows, so I think 600 i better.

[Welshman]

If you're looking for a good reg for recreational diving have a look at the Oceanic CDX Alpha 7.

[large_diver]

Just remember to take LDS recommendations with a grain of salt.

It could be that he/she really believes that the Dacor regs are the best for your needs. Then again it could be that the LDS makes the biggest margin on Dacor or has a big inventory that they have been urged to sell off.....

As with anything else -- it pays to get multiple opinions, especially when you are talking about underwater life support equip.

Lots of folks love Scubapro and Apeks around here, including many tech folks who are doing much riskier diving than you and I will ever attempt.

Bottom line -- for regs, I would buy the best you can afford and then take good care of them. It will give you piece of mind vs. buying the cheapest.

If I were looking at new regs, I would consider the following:

- Apeks -- they have the ATX line and the TX line. I think the prices have dropped somewhat for the TX's, since they are no longer the latest and greatest (the ATX line is now their "premier" line -- main difference vs. TX = smaller and lighter second stages)....but these are still great regs and worth a look. Take a look at the TX40, 50 or 100.

- Atomic -- new M1 or the Z1. I've heard good things about the M1 so far.

- Scubapro

Good luck.

[kyleterry]

Thank you for all the information. I am heading out tommorrow to a shop that carries Scubapro and Oceanic.

I am also looking at the on-line stores I found recommended here.
I believe a have good info on the reg. I also looked at Rodale's latest issue (thanks for that advice).

On the BC I have a stupid "newbie" question. Why would I use back-buoyancy vs jacket style. The jacket style is all I have ever used (rental gear).

[Fetch]

Much easier to obtain and maintain proper trim in the water column.

If you're pondering cave training, go with the backplate, there will be fewer gear changes in your future.

jeff

[Wreck/Tec]

Leadweight
Not so fast my recreational friend. Much of what you have described about a harness and back plate is some what true! Wearing minimal thermal protection, and, for lack of a better description, a technically oriented rig, isn't as comfortable as a recreational BC, in some respects. However, for those of us who carry a multitude of gear, it's invaluable. A technically oriented rig is not necessarily a novices first choice, nor should it be. It's true that IF YOUR TRIM ISN'T CORRECT, at the surface you have a tendancy to plunge face first in the water, not good! It's also correct that the webbing is of a heavy duty variety and prone to pinching and chafeing with minimal protection. BUT........if you want a versitile tool that does singles, doubles, can be equipped with greater lift, and carry hordes of gear and spare air mixes at the same time, this is the specialists choice! This isn't unlike any other tool. You have to know how to use it correctly. Entry people should consider recreational gear, for it's simplicity, as a safety consern. There's always the exception to the rule, this stuff is expensive. If you're able to manage it propperly, and know what direction you want to go, rec and or tec, this will do both. As I stated these rigs are different for a reason. Once you consider a tec oriented unit, seek someone who has one, someone who can verse you in it's neuances, or a form of training with this in mind, it can be dangerous if used incorrectly. Getting the CORRECT information can save your life, money, time, and peace of mind.
Wreck/Tec

[Wreck/Tec]

While we're on the subject. I can't hold it in any longer. I see lots of entry people turned loose with all this new gear. Shops obviously want and deserve to make money, or they wouldn't be here for air and service. However, I have to comment that selling entry people ( this is a tough one ) gear that is too complex, and or confusing is unethical. One of the first things that comes to mind is the safe second on the inflator deflator hose end. That combination octo, inflator, deflator. I see more confusion surrounding it's use in practiced emergency situations. If it's that difficult to figure out what buttons to push in drills imagine a real emergency. Is an entry person going to be able to manage a controlled ascent with another diver sucking on their primary while his deflator is in his mouth?
Selling all kinds of Certifications with minimal dives! Hawking computers without knowing the tables first. I suppose you have to give them what they want or someone else will. For all you entry people, it was new to me once as well. Don't you see this as somewhat commercial though. I had to watch some in my class who should have had more instruction pass any way. This isn't a reflection on all shops. It's only an observation, and my opinion. Safe diving everybody, and happy hollidays.
Wreck/Tec

[GreenDiverDown]

Wreck/Tec,

Are you suggesting that there is something inappropriate about entry-level divers using a BP/wing? Too complicated? Unsafe?

SA

[MechDiver]

Wreck/Tec once bubbled...
However, I have to comment that selling entry people ( this is a tough one ) gear that is too complex, and or confusing is unethical Wreck/Tec

Although I agree with most of your position here, and agree with this point "in principal", I have to disagree. A certified diver is/should be responsible for their own equipment selection and choice. You are, in effect, saying the LDS should specify what a diver can buy and dive with.

That would be scary and totally out of line.

Phil

[Wreck/Tec]

Steven Ash
If you read the passage correctly you will note several things.
1) You have to know how to use it, back plate and wing, propperly. Not just strapping it on and going under.It's different than a rec type BC. Example, threading it is complicated if you havn't done it before. Doing it correctly is essential! Your knowledge is crittical here.
2) This obviously this is a safety concern!
3) As for entry people being incapable of manageing a tec type rig, that's crap. I said earlier there are exceptions to the rule. There are always people who are capable. I think you would agree though, if your honest, when you don't have a through handle on basic skills, much less basic equipment, why complicate things with a piece of equip. like this. It boarders on the irresponsible. I appreciate your response. I'm not all knowing....I use this stuff. When partial truths, or inaccuracys are put on the board the responsible thing to do is give the correct answer or find it. That's what this site is all about.........
Wreck/Tec

[kyleterry]

Thank you all for the education.

I believe what I am going to do is go with scubapro mk25/s600. There is another LDS here that will service it. I am looking at purchasing it through Leisurepro, which seems to be about $200 less.

I bought the computer and BC today from another LDS.

I went with the Genisis Phantom. My main reason was comfort. I was looking for something that was (1)sold locally so I could try on several, (2) recommended by folks here, (3) recommended by Rodale's, and (4) fit well - I have large shoulders and am 6'2", 250lbs. I was looking hard at the back inflators and wings, but I have never used one and I could not find one that meet my other four guildlines. I decided I could just pass it down if I bought another one...two of my sons dive and two more will be following them.

I also bought today the Genesis ReAct computer. It seemed to rate well, was easy to read, and was a good price.

I hope I did well.

Thanks for the help.

[pescador775]

The Genesis Phantom looks to be a comfortable and solidly constructed BC. It's weight integrated which is interesting. Lotsa pocket room. From the pictures reminds me of a Beuchat Masterlift. Take a look at the lower fringe of the plasic frame and see if there is a small slot for a crotch strap. Suggest you buy a small piece of soft 1" webbing and two small buckles from a marine hardware store. Carry the strap with you in case of ride up (reg hits back of head). The SP regulator is top of the line and as good as anything the majority here use ( I use a SP G250HP). Scubapro has some pretty rigid warrantee policies. It would be helpful (I think) if Leisurepro could warrant the unit. Parts are free but labor costs about as much as parts and work time combined. Annual 'checkups' are required to maintain the warrantee.

[SA Boy]

Thumper is being a little unfair to Dacor.

What he means is that OLDER DACOR REGS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO SERVICE.

After Dacor were taken over by Mares all the old Dacor regs and service packs were discontinued.

This is because when Sam Davison (DAvison CORporation) died that company went (or almost went) bust. Mares basically bought the Dacor name

I think this transition was very badly handled with the result that a lot of Dacor owners are not very happy with the service they have received.

The current line up:
Dacor Eagle
Dacor Viper
Dacor Fury (about to be discontinued I believe)
are all easy to get parts for.

I have a Dacor Eagle Pro DPD with Eagle Octopus that I am very happy with.

Safe diving

[cstreu1026]

I haven't seen mention of you buying a reg yet,b ut I was thinking that you should check out Atomic regs. The Z1 is an excellent breather, especially considering the $399 list price. I have a Scuba Pro MK25 S600 and I think the Z1 breaths as well. I will more than likely pick up and Atomic reg in the future. Also, if you are not happy with what is avaible at the shops in Columbus, come on down to Cincinnati...there are several great shops here.