cheap AND advanced diving?

[minamin13]

My fiance and I are planning to visit in July. We are looking for cheap hotel/dive packages for 7 nights/5 days of diving. Does anyone know of a dive operator who offers:

(1) good pricing
(2) long bottom times
(3) good dive site selection (Punta Sur / advanced dives)

-Aldora looks intriguing but is on the expensive side
-Blue Angel looks reasonable, but do they offer advanced dives?
-Dive Paradise looks reasonable, but do they offer (2) and (3)?
-Papa Hogs is where we got certified -- do they offer (2) and (3)?

We mainly do our diving in Monterey, CA. Drift diving would be new for us, so a good mixture of novice and advanced dives would be good.

[TSandM]

Aldora is a little more expensive, but we sure had a good time diving with them in March. We had a wonderful guide who recognized that we knew what we were doing, and let us dive our own dives while he looked for interesting critters to point out to us. We dove 100s or 120s and all our dives were over an hour (we went up when we got cold or bored). And Aldora's boats have these wonderful 3/4 length windbreaker jackets lined in polarfleece, that are delightful to snuggle up in while the boat's moving.

[Hooked4Life]

I am not sure how cheap and advanced diving can be in the same sentance.

We dive with BlueXT Sea and their service is hard to beat. Last year we did Devils Throat and Cathedrals which were pretty cool dives.

[5615mike]

I prefer to use Aldora myself. Have about 150 dives with them over the last 10 years or so. I have never had a dive under an hour with them and have gone as long as almost an hour and a half on Columbia Shallows and still had gobs of gas left. We have gotten to know all the DM there and they know us and our skill level. Most DO will take you to the advanced sites but MANY will charge you extra for it. If your an advanced diver, the DM will leave you alone and let you do your dive as long as you exhibit the skills needed. We have done dives as deep as 140'+ with them on Maracaibo and had about 11 minutes of deco. This was possible b/c everyone on the boat was very experienced.

[ReefHound]

My only experience is with Dive Paradise. You can get the advanced dive sites and and longer bottom times by upgrading to their EDP trips, which is for advanced divers using computers and going out on the "fast boats".

[Karibelle]

Blue Angel offers good site selection.

It looks like your best bet will be to actually contact each of the operators you've listed to see what THEY have to say. Here, you can find someone who loves (and who doesn't love) each and every op on the island.

Have a great trip!

kari

[Dave Zimmerly]

Check out Scuba Club Cozumel.

Dave (aka "Squirt")

[diver 85]

I prefer to use Aldora myself. Have about 150 dives with them over the last 10 years or so. I have never had a dive under an hour with them and have gone as long as almost an hour and a half on Columbia Shallows and still had gobs of gas left. We have gotten to know all the DM there and they know us and our skill level. Most DO will take you to the advanced sites but MANY will charge you extra for it. If your an advanced diver, the DM will leave you alone and let you do your dive as long as you exhibit the skills needed. We have done dives as deep as 140'+ with them on Maracaibo and had about 11 minutes of deco. This was possible b/c everyone on the boat was very experienced.

ditto this but only a little over 20 dives with them........very good operation.......

[mamanan]

Caribe blue/ Blue Angel has the best package if you don't want AI. No frills Hotel but very comfortable, 15min walk to town. Blue Angel is good talk to them about your request.

[Garrobo]

Last time I was at Papa Hog's I rented AL100's at no extra cost. Got a lot more time downstairs with them. With an AL80 I have to come up about five minutes or more early. With the AL100 I lasted the dive with the other divers and had extra air at the finish. They are about 8 pounds heavier. I was diving with some experienced divers who seemed to never breathe. I've never mastered that skill. Air's cheap and I don't like to punish myself. I am an air hog by the way.

[diver 85]

Last time I was at Papa Hog's I rented AL100's at no extra cost. Got a lot more time downstairs with them. With an AL80 I have to come up about five minutes or more early. With the AL100 I lasted the dive with the other divers and had extra air at the finish. They are about 8 pounds heavier. I was diving with some experienced divers who seemed to never breathe. I've never mastered that skill. Air's cheap and I don't like to punish myself. I am an air hog by the way.


It's called skip breathing........get real proficient @ it after dive 400 or so..........lol......

[Christi]

It's called skip breathing........get real proficient @ it after dive 400 or so..........lol......


SKip breathing IS NOT recommended...it's a good way to get a serious case of DCS. A safe diver with good gas management doesn't skip breathe.

[mstevens]

Deep Blue has low prices. Don't know what you mean by advanced diving, but they certainly do go to the southern dive sites.

[Diver Kat]

Caribe Blu & Blue Angel have a great hotel/dive package .... great location ... and if you can get placed in Jorge's dive group, he tends to take the more advanced divers out .... (at least on our trips!)

[TSandM]

I am an air hog by the way.

Garrobo, referring to your comments on weighting on another thread, being more precise with your weight requirements can help a great deal with this.

[minamin13]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I will go over the options with some other divers who may come along.

I was leaning towards Blue Angel, but now I am leaning towards Blue XT Sea, and maybe Aldora. The deco diving bothers me (hence my hesitation with Aldora). I have never have gone into deco and I would prefer to experience it with some experienced deep divers in California before I go. My fiance thinks deco diving and "advanced" divers should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as he thinks that deco diving is reckless:) Is it possible to take the dive shallower than the rest of the gang and surface before the rest do?

Also the steel tanks bother me, too. I wear 3 lbs with an AL80 when diving bare skin. I wear 6-8 lbs with a full 3 mm and an AL80. I'd imagine that I'd kind of be overweighted with low pressure 100s and no weights if no wetsuit. But I suppose it can't be worse than adjusting your buoyancy in cold water, where you basically have to purge or inflate every few feet of ascent/descent.

Thanks to everyone's postings, I've learned that I'll be bringing my Zeagle Ranger BCD to Cozumel, instead of my little Oceanic kid's BCD and I will definitely be bringing my safety sausage.

[scubawife]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I will go over the options with some other divers who may come along.

I was leaning towards Blue Angel, but now I am leaning towards Blue XT Sea, and maybe Aldora. The deco diving bothers me (hence my hesitation with Aldora). I have never have gone into deco and I would prefer to experience it with some experienced deep divers in California before I go. My fiance thinks deco diving and "advanced" divers should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as he thinks that deco diving is reckless:) Is it possible to take the dive shallower than the rest of the gang and surface before the rest do?

Also the steel tanks bother me, too. I wear 3 lbs with an AL80 when diving bare skin. I wear 6-8 lbs with a full 3 mm and an AL80. I'd imagine that I'd kind of be overweighted with low pressure 100s and no weights if no wetsuit. But I suppose it can't be worse than adjusting your buoyancy in cold water, where you basically have to purge or inflate every few feet of ascent/descent.

Thanks to everyone's postings, I've learned that I'll be bringing my Zeagle Ranger BCD to Cozumel, instead of my little Oceanic kid's BCD and I will definitely be bringing my safety sausage.

If you want "cheap" diving then Aldora and Blue XT Sea don't really fit that description. If you want a good value, then that's another thing all together.

In Cozumel I dive with Living Underwater and use an LP95 steel tank. My weighting in a 3mm with an AL80 is about 8lbs as well. I am not overweighted at all with the LP95. I use less weight and actually find the steel tank more comfortable then al AL80. I have good air consumption and can get a long dive on a AL80, but I just like the steel tank better.

I haven't dived with Aldora, but I have dived with Liquid Blue and Living Underwater who use steel tanks. We dive within recreational limits. The only "deco diving" I have done with either shop are sites like Devil's Throat and Maracaibo where you may end up with your computer going into deco due to the depth. With the steel tanks we can still have plenty of time to clear the computer and enjoy a long dive.

[minamin13]

Yeah, I realize that I'm contradicting myself when saying I want cheap diving, and then turn around and favor Aldora/Blue XT Sea. I've been reading a lot of posts, and a lot of people really like these two shops, as well as Living Underwater etc... and I would rather have a guaranteed good experience. I'll just skimp out on the lodging.

That's good to know that you liked the LP95 and that you prefer the feeling to the AL80.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with the culture of diving at Cozumel. Because everything is divemastered, I was concerned that everyone would have to surface after 30 minutes when the first person runs out of air. It turns out that everyone takes hour long dives due to larger than normal tanks.

No deco diving (unless you're doing Punta Sur) withstanding, the profiles people are describing seem rather aggressive. I was reading a post from one of the earlier threads that he did a 130' dive on Nitrox 36 so he didn't have to take a long SI.

??? Maybe I should review my Nitrox manual.

[Christi]

No deco diving (unless you're doing Punta Sur) withstanding, the profiles people are describing seem rather aggressive. I was reading a post from one of the earlier threads that he did a 130' dive on Nitrox 36 so he didn't have to take a long SI.

??? Maybe I should review my Nitrox manual.

Haha! This was clearly someone with a thorough understanding of partial pressures...not :)

Your question regarding surfacing when the first is low on air would be a question directed to the dive ops you are considering. Everyone has different policies and procedures regarding that...some make everyone surface together, others do not. Our divers routinely get 50 to 70+ minutes on AL 80's with a safe multi-level profile. It really depends on your air consumption rather than the other divers' consumption.

Have a great trip regardless of who you end up with...all of your choices are good ones :)

[scubawife]

Yeah, I realize that I'm contradicting myself when saying I want cheap diving, and then turn around and favor Aldora/Blue XT Sea. I've been reading a lot of posts, and a lot of people really like these two shops, as well as Living Underwater etc... and I would rather have a guaranteed good experience. I'll just skimp out on the lodging.

That's good to know that you liked the LP95 and that you prefer the feeling to the AL80.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with the culture of diving at Cozumel. Because everything is divemastered, I was concerned that everyone would have to surface after 30 minutes when the first person runs out of air. It turns out that everyone takes hour long dives due to larger than normal tanks.

No deco diving (unless you're doing Punta Sur) withstanding, the profiles people are describing seem rather aggressive. I was reading a post from one of the earlier threads that he did a 130' dive on Nitrox 36 so he didn't have to take a long SI.

??? Maybe I should review my Nitrox manual.

There are only a couple sites where you will hit those depths - Punta Sur, where you exit the throat at about 130ft, and Maracaibo, where the wall starts very deep and you can easily hit 140-150. There is no need to do these sites if you don't want to. And a few others that you can go 100-120, but the same site is just at good at 80-100. There's lots of great diving without hitting anything near these depth. I happen to like Punta Sur as a well dive wihtout the Throat and have had great Cozumel trips that I never went below 100ft and didn't feel like missed anything.

There are divers who do all Nitrox but it's most common to see air on the first dive and nitrox for the second tank.

If you go with a shop that has boats with 6-8 divers and the group decides each day where they want to dive, then you'll dive your air and your computer. The DMs are not overbearing babysitters. They're more like tour guides just showing you the best way to dive the site and most of them are great at pointing out things that you'd otherwise just fly right by. Exact procedure varies between shops and DMs. Some will shoot their marker as soon as the first diver is ready to ascend and send divers up as they get to the predetermined PSI while the DM will continue the dive until the last diver is ready to go up. Other DMs will put an air hog on their Octo until the rest of the group reaches a certain PSI then have every start up as a group. Others send up buddy pairs. You'll be made aware of the procedure your DM wants the group to follow, but as long as you choose your shop wisely you shouldn't have to worry about having your dives cut short.

After my first few dives with the steel tanks I will use them whenever I can over AL80s. It's not an air issue. They just feel more well balanced and I don't get an aching lower back or any shoulder strain, which I do after a couple days with an AL80. Some people like them and some don't.

[diver 85]

SKip breathing IS NOT recommended...it's a good way to get a serious case of DCS. A safe diver with good gas management doesn't skip breathe.


just a joke(notice the lol), remember when our instructor during OW warned us about it, long ago........

[halocline]

The deco diving bothers me (hence my hesitation with Aldora). I have never have gone into deco and I would prefer to experience it with some experienced deep divers in California before I go. My fiance thinks deco diving and "advanced" divers should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as he thinks that deco diving is reckless:) Is it possible to take the dive shallower than the rest of the gang and surface before the rest do?

Also the steel tanks bother me, too. I wear 3 lbs with an AL80 when diving bare skin. I wear 6-8 lbs with a full 3 mm and an AL80. I'd imagine that I'd kind of be overweighted with low pressure 100s and no weights if no wetsuit. But I suppose it can't be worse than adjusting your buoyancy in cold water, where you basically have to purge or inflate every few feet of ascent/descent.

Thanks to everyone's postings, I've learned that I'll be bringing my Zeagle Ranger BCD to Cozumel, instead of my little Oceanic kid's BCD and I will definitely be bringing my safety sausage.

I think you're wise to avoid any sort of deco diving before getting the right training for it. Also, consider that virtually all rec diving computers are not designed for planned deco; emergency only.

I also think you're wise to avoid larger tanks; not only for the buoyancy issues, (although that's enough) but for the fact that using the larger tanks encourages divers to push the limits of NDL and get into some deco situations w/out planning. I would almost guarantee that if more Cozumel dive ops start offering larger tanks to their existing clientele, (rec divers with little or no tech training) the chambers are going to see an increase in business. I think one of the main reasons DCS is so uncommon in rec diving is because the AL80 tank limits bottom time. Is it really necessary to extend dives beyond an hour? And, consider this; if two divers do the same profile, but one breathes 80cf, the other 120, who do you think has absorbed more nitrogen? (Just a guess, it could be way more complicated than that) Why not work on gas management and buoyancy skills to get your air consumption lower? I've seen DMs on Cozumel that weight 120 lbs, and some that weigh 220+ and they all seem to be just fine on air.

The one thing I can't get is why you're bringing a ranger; my understanding is that it's great cold water BC, but it sounds like you'd be perfect with a aluminum plate and a small (20-25lb) wing. OMG, I'm so sorry I hijacked this thread into one of the signature arguments on SB and ruined an otherwise focused, hopefully helpful post!

[5615mike]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I will go over the options with some other divers who may come along.

I was leaning towards Blue Angel, but now I am leaning towards Blue XT Sea, and maybe Aldora. The deco diving bothers me (hence my hesitation with Aldora). I have never have gone into deco and I would prefer to experience it with some experienced deep divers in California before I go. My fiance thinks deco diving and "advanced" divers should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as he thinks that deco diving is reckless:) Is it possible to take the dive shallower than the rest of the gang and surface before the rest do?

Also the steel tanks bother me, too. I wear 3 lbs with an AL80 when diving bare skin. I wear 6-8 lbs with a full 3 mm and an AL80. I'd imagine that I'd kind of be overweighted with low pressure 100s and no weights if no wetsuit. But I suppose it can't be worse than adjusting your buoyancy in cold water, where you basically have to purge or inflate every few feet of ascent/descent.

Thanks to everyone's postings, I've learned that I'll be bringing my Zeagle Ranger BCD to Cozumel, instead of my little Oceanic kid's BCD and I will definitely be bringing my safety sausage.

NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE DOING DECO DIVES UNLESS ITS PLANNED. Otherwise, your not planning your dive and diving your plan. Remember class?

Unless you have trained for deco diving, no one should ever be in the situation unless it due to an emergency of some kind. Deco diving is no different than putting yourself in a hard top situation. YOU CANT SURFACE. Unless you know what your doing, you should never do it. Ok, now I will climb down off my soap box.

BTW, deco diving is not wreckless if its PLANNED and gas management is observed to handle the proper time. THUS, PLANNING IS IMPORTANT. AGAIN, deco diving that is not planned, yes, its wreckless.............and very stupid. Advanced diving certainly does not mean deco is involved. Now a more fare statment might group Techical diving and deco together.

[scubawife]

I think you're wise to avoid any sort of deco diving before getting the right training for it. Also, consider that virtually all rec diving computers are not designed for planned deco; emergency only.

I also think you're wise to avoid larger tanks; not only for the buoyancy issues, (although that's enough) but for the fact that using the larger tanks encourages divers to push the limits of NDL and get into some deco situations w/out planning. I would almost guarantee that if more Cozumel dive ops start offering larger tanks to their existing clientele, (rec divers with little or no tech training) the chambers are going to see an increase in business. I think one of the main reasons DCS is so uncommon in rec diving is because the AL80 tank limits bottom time. Is it really necessary to extend dives beyond an hour? And, consider this; if two divers do the same profile, but one breathes 80cf, the other 120, who do you think has absorbed more nitrogen? (Just a guess, it could be way more complicated than that) Why not work on gas management and buoyancy skills to get your air consumption lower? I've seen DMs on Cozumel that weight 120 lbs, and some that weigh 220+ and they all seem to be just fine on air.

The one thing I can't get is why you're bringing a ranger; my understanding is that it's great cold water BC, but it sounds like you'd be perfect with a aluminum plate and a small (20-25lb) wing. OMG, I'm so sorry I hijacked this thread into one of the signature arguments on SB and ruined an otherwise focused, hopefully helpful post!

Not trying to start an argument here by any means, but have you actually dived with any tank other then an AL80? Diving with a steel 95, 100 or 120 does not mean you're an air hog or that you are choosing that tank so you can push non-deco limits. I have had several 85-90 minute dives on a steel 95 and 100 and still surfaced with ample air in the tank and never went into deco. I've also had some dives just short of 2hr and also not pushed my limits. I prefer the bouyancy characteristics of a steel tank. I can put less weight in my pockets and the tank is negative at the end of the dive which for me makes for a much more comfortable safety stop. And the way the tank sits on me I don't get any pain in my lower back or shoulders which I do get after multiple days with AL80s.

Having a larger tank doesn't make you more likely to get a DCS hit. There are so many contributing factors to DCS that nobody actually knows why some divers get hit and others don't. If your concern is nitrogen loading then dive Nitrox on air tables and you have increased your safety for that aspect of it. Some people can do everything right and still get DCS. Others can push every limit and safety practice known and never suffer any consequence.

AL80, LP95, HP120... the size and type of tank a diver prefers, just like their equipment choices, is a matter of personal preference and comfort. There's not a universal right or wrong choice, it's just a matter of what works best for you and what you're most comfortable with.

[halocline]

I have used steel tanks; since I use a SS plate, typically steel does not work well for me with regards to buoyancy in warm water, (which is all I ever dive!) but I understand that for most people there are buoyancy advantages to steel tanks. Given what the OP said about her weight requirements with an AL80, I guessed that she would be fairly negative with no lead using a larger steel tank.

Regarding the use of larger tanks and incidence of DCS, I'm certainly not saying that you or any other individual diver using a larger tank responsibly is more likely to get hit than with a smaller tank. But, based on the dive behavior I've seen in Cozumel, (mixed levels of experience and abilities) and knowing the numbers of occasional divers there, I would venture a strong guess that incidence of DCS among Cozumel divers will increase if use of larger tanks increases. I would like to be wrong, and maybe I am, but it just makes sense to me that the AL80 is a safety limiting tank for many divers who are not on top of things like you are.

[scubawife]

I have used steel tanks; since I use a SS plate, typically steel does not work well for me with regards to buoyancy in warm water, (which is all I ever dive!) but I understand that for most people there are buoyancy advantages to steel tanks. Given what the OP said about her weight requirements with an AL80, I guessed that she would be fairly negative with no lead using a larger steel tank.

Regarding the use of larger tanks and incidence of DCS, I'm certainly not saying that you or any other individual diver using a larger tank responsibly is more likely to get hit than with a smaller tank. But, based on the dive behavior I've seen in Cozumel, (mixed levels of experience and abilities) and knowing the numbers of occasional divers there, I would venture a strong guess that incidence of DCS among Cozumel divers will increase if use of larger tanks increases. I would like to be wrong, and maybe I am, but it just makes sense to me that the AL80 is a safety limiting tank for many divers who are not on top of things like you are.

I use the same weight as the OP with a full 3mm and an AL80. I dive a pretty minimal BCD, a Zeagle Scout. A steel 95 or 100 means I dive with a few lbs less lead and keep a little air in my BC for most of the dive vs no air in my BC on a dive with an AL80. But with the AL I do have bouyancy issues at the end of the dive and often have to be horizontal or sometimes even head down at the safety stop. With steel, I have no air in my BC at the stop and I am very comfortably vertical.

The studies and research available on DCS incidents and other dive accidents is really interesting stuff. Reading it dispelled several DCS myths for me. Based on what I've read, the only thing that will increase the number of incidents is an increase in the number of divers. Interestingly, the majority of hits are "undeserved." The diver did nothing to put themselves at risk.