Stratification of Nitrox Mixes

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Jackal

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Having just completed the DSAT Blenders course, thinking about this and applying some aeronautical engineering knowledge, and seeing a PADI Master Instructor shaking a tank prior to analysing the O2 content of a tank, I have a short question regarding the stratification of Nitrox mixes. I thought the shaking of the tank was a pointless exercise prior to analysing it. For those non-technical people out there, stratification is the seperation of two gases or fluids, like water on oil.

Does stratification within a tank occur ? I argue that it doesn't with the reasons as follows.

Air is simply a nitrox mix of 21%. If it stratified over time, resulting in a layer of Nitrogen on top of Oxygen ( since Nitrogen has a molecular weight of 14.0067, and Oxygen 15.994), then if you attached a regulator on top of a tank, you wouldn't be able to breathe it until you shook it and stired it up (since all you'd be breating in would be Nitrogen ).

The homogenous nature of a gas means that it's constituent molecules are evenly distributed within the gas. Unlike a fluid, the gases have a continual motion, so are constantly mixing, but over time, this motion slows due to molecular friction with the tank walls. It would be interesting to leave a EANx 40 tank standing up for about a week, analyse it ( without moving the tank ), then shake the tank and re-analyse to note the different. Would it continue to be a 40 mix ? Thoughts ?

Fortunately in diving, the regular movement of a tank on and off the boat etc, would be sufficient to ensure a complete mix of the gases if they did stratify. So the only real reason for this question is when analysing, which is quite serious. If a EANx mix does stratify, and you analyse it, you might get majorly incorrect O2 contents, resulting in a significantly dangerous situation for the diver.

Now the really interesting question is Trimix. Since the molecular weight of Helium is only 4.0020 (ie: 1/4 the weight of oxygen ) does Helium Stratify from the rest of the air mix making up the Trimix. I've heard that if a tank has a slow leak around the valve, and it the tank is standing up, the Helium can bleed off first, since it is pooled around the upper end of the tank. This would result in a significant change in the tanks contents, and obvious danger to the diver. Anyone with any trimix knowledge, please comment on whether there is a requirement to re-analyse a tank within a certain time period of a dive.
 
There was a thread on this recently and your answer is

maybe :rolleyes:

Actually, I do not believe a consensus was ever arrived at. Roll the tank, wait for awhile, do it now, whatever pops your cork.

As far as the trimix leaking thing, helium will leak from a connection that "air" will not, or at least I've been told that. I analyze anything before I dive it.

Phil
 
my guess is no on the stratification, I test the mix right after filling, then mark the tank. They don't sit around long enough for anything to seperate, but who knows. I don't think I would re-check the tank again anyways even if it did sit around, just the pressure as I geared up.

But what I'd really like to know is how was the DSAT program?

mike
 
Just to be pedantic ('cos I used to teach High School Chemistry a long time ago) Nitrogen goes around as N2 molecules so has a relative Atomic Mass of 28.01. Similarly Oxygen is O2 and has a mass of 31.99.

I dont know of the top of my head what the velocity of molecules in a gas is at room temperature but I do know it is incredibaly high (100's of meters/second???? ) which means that gases mix very rapidly.

I dont dive trimix,but if I did the least of my concerns would be shaking the tank

As a final thought,if gases stratified the CO2 in the atmosphere (mass 44) would all fall to the bottom,making breathing somewhat difficult
 
ianr33 once bubbled...

As a final thought,if gases stratified the CO2 in the atmosphere (mass 44) would all fall to the bottom,making breathing somewhat difficult

I thought about that as well, but I think that natural factors, ie weather, wind, earth's rotation, etc, would keep the atmosphere sufficiently mixed up.
 
based on theory it does not occur. Based on experience it does occur.

I recommend rolling single tanks, standing/laying down doubles a few times prior to analyzing.

Tom
 
ianr33 once bubbled...
Ah,but what about those very still,temperature inversion type days you have in Southern California :)

ahh yes, the reason I left Florida for California, well, we've still got the earth's rotation to keep our air breathable, plus, sometimes the earth shakes just for good measure.:D
 
WreckWriter once bubbled...
based on theory it does not occur. Based on experience it does occur.

I recommend rolling single tanks, standing/laying down doubles a few times prior to analyzing.

Tom

Tom,

how much of a difference have you seen and what method do you use to do your fills?

mike
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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