APS MantaRay or DeepOutdoor SixGill Fins?

[RonFrank]

Would anyone that uses, or has tried these fins care to share an opinion?

HERE (http://www.apsmantaray.com/finworks.html) and HERE (http://www.deepoutdoors.com/sixgill.htm) are links to the websites.

I'm looking for a comfortable non-split fin for dry diving. I think these may fit the bill.

[MarkUK]

I've used the Deep Outdoors Six Gill fins. They came out favourably in the group fin tests we did, so much so that my chief test team member actually bought them when we were done.

He uses them for travelling abroad and for diving in the UK in a drysuit. They are lightweight, short, give plenty of power, are great in confined spaces, you can do every fin kick you want, and even though the straps look a piece of crap, they actually work extremely well.

Mark

[El Tiburon]

I'm a twin Jet user. I like the splits becasue I tend to cramp in my calves. I wanted a more versatile fin to use differnt kicks but also low impact and went with the APS Mantaray's. I used them yesterday for the first time and was totally impressed. Beginning of the first dive they felt stiffer than I'm used to, but as the dive progressed they got easier and easier to kick. By the second dive they felt just as easy as my Twin Jets. Now, my question is what is the difference between the APS Mantarays and the Deep Outdoors Six Gills. They look identical, both have the same strap design, both tout the same dual channel propulsion technology, both claim many years in R & D, both have patents. The only difference I can see is that the Mantaray's come in different colors and are cheaper.
Edmundo

[RonFrank]

The only difference I can see is that the Mantaray's come in different colors and are cheaper.
Edmundo

The Mantaray's black fins are stiffer than the other colors, and slightly negative vs. slightly positive to neutral.

I like the white as it would be cool to use them for white balance which is what they were designed for.

After a bit of research online, my conclusion is that Mantaray, and Deep Outdoors are identical, just sold under different names.

So what color color were the fins you bought?

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Ron,

One of my Instructors has the Deep Sea....says they are great for student work, but anything where he wants to go fast or a current....not the best....Other than that, he loves them

Hows the Sealent?

Mike

[Divin' Dave]

My wife and I bought the APS fins for a Roatan trip as they're shorter and lighter than our Apollo splits. Like them so much we're probably switching to the APS for all our diving.

[RonFrank]

Ron,

One of my Instructors has the Deep Sea....says they are great for student work, but anything where he wants to go fast or a current....not the best....Other than that, he loves them

Hows the Sealent?

Mike

It's always interesting to hear that fins that otherwise work well, don't in current. People say that about the Biofins, and I love mine in current.

I'm really looking for a non-split to dive dry where I tend to want more traction, and also am in environments where it's easy to silt things up. The bio-fins are great, but they are floppy compared to most paddle fins.

I recommend the mask sealant to anyone that asks. However I purchased an Atomic Frameless mask, and it just does not leak! :lotsalove:

I think I've found my mask! Figures they are about the most expensive on the market! :10:

[RonFrank]

The APS Manta Ray reps were at CO dive days yesterday, and I was able to demo these fins on a dive. The vis was so poor that I was spending more time focusing on Navigation and my buddies than on the fins. However I purchased a pair, in WHITE!

One first impression is that this strap system is the best I've seen in a rubber strap. I'm a die-hard spring strap user, but these straps are just like spring straps in that you set the length and then to get in and out of the fin you just pull the rubber tab over the back of the foot. This worked as well as spring straps with the set it and forget it method. They may not be as durable over a long period of time, but the rubber is quite strong so unless they start to dry out and crack, this is a great innovation. Time will tell. The tabs are larger than on my biofins, so a standard spring strap that is designed for many of the fins out there is not going to work unless the initial opening is larger than is on my current spring straps.

I will post a better write-up after I have a few more dives on them. My first impressions were good, they were comfortable, and worked well with all kick styles.

As to the question if APS, and Deep Outdoors are they same fins, they are. Deep Outdoors wanted to be the main distributor for these fins, however they are more tech, and did not want to carry any other color than black, and the market was limited. The parent company decided that Deep Outdoor would remain a distributor, but they wanted to promote this fins to a wider audience, so they are sold in four colors under the APS Mantaray name as well.

I got this from the rep, who may also be one of the higher ups in the company, but I'm not sure on that.

[El Tiburon]

I wanted the Carribean Blue but it wasn't available so I bought the Aqua Blue ($10.00) discount for it not being my first choice in color. So I got them for $89.99. Also, LeisurePro has Stainless steel spring straps for them for $9.95. So I got mine w/springstraps for $100.00 :D .

[RonFrank]

I wanted the Carribean Blue but it wasn't available so I bought the Aqua Blue ($10.00) discount for it not being my first choice in color. So I got them for $89.99. Also, LeisurePro has Stainless steel spring straps for them for $9.95. So I got mine w/springstraps for $100.00 :D .

Do those spring straps fit over the tabs? I know LP lists them as an accessory, but have you received the fins, and attached the straps?

[El Tiburon]

I live in New York, so I picked them up at Leisurepro in Manhattan. The straps fit right over the rubber knob then you slide them in to the smaller hole. They don't come off easily. I wear a size nine shoe and I got the size large fins and the size large Spring straps. They fit perfectly on my Henderson Gold Core 7mm boots. Not too tight, not too loose, but fairly easy to doff. I dove with them last week, first dive they felt a little hard to fin, but by then end of the dive the difference was barely noticable. By the second dive they felt just as effortless to fin as my Twin Jets and I was practicing different kicks with no problem.

[scubablue67]

I have been using the Six Gills for over a year and love them. I just found out about the Manta Rays and we now carry them in all colors. I have to disagree with anyone that thinks they don't work in current. I find them to have as much or more power than any fin I've tried. I originally purchased them for tech diving but due to the advantages of being short and easy to pack I use them all the time plus the white fins are awesome for teaching. My students never lose sight of me in low viz they really stand out even better than yellow. The strap that ships with the mantas works well but i really prefer the Deep Outdoors spring straps. The Manta Ray fin also has an upgraded fin post that works much better than the six gill version. I'm excited about the fin and hope that recreational divers find the fin appealing also with the muliple colors.

Rich

[NitroWill]

Those of you that are using either of these fins..

Do you use spring straps or prefer the mantarays "universal strap"?

If you do use springs, which do you use and how do you like them?

Thanks :)

[RonFrank]

I've been using these for a while with Manta Spring Straps. The straps provided with the fins work REALLY well. Very much like spring straps, only in rubber. IOW's set them, and forget them, and just pull them on over the heel.

They are still rubber, and subject to the cracking and failing over time, but I'd say that one would be very well off using the straps supplied for many years, or even decades. The ONLY reason I put spring straps on is I had a pair, and they are more durable over the long run.

[NitroWill]

Which springs did you go with Ron? Someone said they had bigger post and most springs would not fit. Scuba.com lists a set of springs but they have quick release buckles which I don't care for.

[NitroWill]

I saw some used manarays my size on scuba.com last night for $50 so I jumped on them! Will give them a whirl in a couple of weeks!

[scubablue67]

I really like the way the Deep Outdoors spring straps work on the fins. They are easy to spread to fit over post and then tighten down for secure use. I sure hate to use the straps that require altering the fins.

[RonFrank]

I really like the way the Deep Outdoors spring straps work on the fins. They are easy to spread to fit over post and then tighten down for secure use. I sure hate to use the straps that require altering the fins.

Spring straps don't required any alteration of the fins if that is what you are getting at.

I initially thought that the posts on these fins were larger than on other fins, but that did not turn out to be the case.

[Divin' Dave]

I was using spring on my fins, that was until I left them (and a hood) behind on a Catalina dive weekend. I liked the springs better than the supplied straps.

[NitroWill]

So if the post seems to be the same size - any spring should work..


Might give these a try unless someone else has something else they like better

Tilos Spring Straps, Fins, Tilos, Tilos Spring Straps (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=TilosProDiverSpringStraps)

[ickis]

if you go tech diving i know mostly stiff fins or regular stiffness that generate large amounts of thrust and power are good.
go here for a little perspective (it helped me quite a bit for looking at fins objectively being a force-fins fan):
18 New Fins | Scuba Diving Magazine (http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/2007/11/18-new-fins)

i dont know your prior experiences with fins but still, from tech diver with 3000+ dives to a freshly certified diver anyone will get confused when facing an onslaught of diving equipment manufacturers trying to get you to buy their gear.

if youre set on getting a mantaray i suggest you get the black one- the blade is stiffer (providing thrust).

[scubabooty]

I have just started diving with the Mantaray in White and really like them (I know they are not tech black, but I for one don't mind). I work a lot with students and they really like my fins too. I usually use a Jet fin, but find them too heavy to do any flutter kick with, hard on my knees. Having students bumping into your legs all the time makes for a difficult frog kick.

I find I get good response out of the Manatrays for speed and they have great agility. I have yet to use them in the wrecks but will soon, and plan on taking them to Mexico for a couple of weeks of cave diving. I love the strap that comes with them - it keeps the fin on without digging into my heel. My dryboot fits well in the pocket and I just need to cinch up one notch each side to get my wet boots to fit.

I think each individual has to find a balance between the thrust and power a fin gives for that person and the energy expended to get that result. Being a smaller person, too stiff a fin gives me good short term gains, but in the long term my legs feel it much more.

My only problem is that I had to change my weighting around a bit as the lighter fin changed my trim. I consider that a minor problem an am happy to deal with that. I find I have less effort with my kicks and my legs feel less tired after keeping up the the guys on the long runs.

Overall, I give this fin two thumbs up!

[APS Mantaray]

To read some fair and unbiased reviews of the Mantaray Fin made by world class diving experts- with extensive experience using a number of different fins, follow these website links: apsmantaray.com/product_reviews.html and apsmantaray.com/testVideo.html

When testing a fin, it’s necessary to try them out more than once or twice under various conditions and circumstances. And keep in mind, what works well for one person may not work as well for another without some adjustment. To see what divers are saying about the performance of the Mantaray Dive Fins please go to the website apsmantaray.com/testimonials.html.

[APS Mantaray]

Anyone interested in knowing more about the Mantaray Dive Fins performance please visit the following links:

Product Review (http://www.apsmantaray.com/product_reviews.html)
Test Video (http://www.apsmantaray.com/testVideo.html)
Testimonials for the APS Mantaray Dive Fins (http://www.apsmantaray.com/testimonials.html).

[ablake]

Been diving with Mantaray fins for a while, I like my fins. I like them enough to use them for rental gear. for Als diving. try them its worth your while. and you won't regreat using them

[rab1412000]

its wierd how subadiving.com rated the six gill outdoor fin as a testers choice and teh aps mantarays as a midlevel performer. theyre the same fins !

[Chocula]

I switched to the SixGill fins after having a chance to test several types of fins on John Wagner's test machine in the Summer of 2009. The same machine as seen in John's Test Video. I was able to pull just as hard with the ASP Mantarays as I was with Scubapro Jet fins or my Avanti Quattros. The ASP Mantarays were the least fatiguing, especially at full power. I could not even come close to the same amount of thrust when testing the split fins.

What really sold me on them was my first surf entry with them on. They are are so much easier to deal with in surf than my Avanti Quattros.

I have tried both the steel spring straps and the included rubber strap. I prefer the included rubber strap, but both systems felt secure.

:thumbs-up I strongly recommend ASP Mantaray or SixGill fin. I am giving away my Avanti Quattros because I will ALWAYS choose the SixGill over them. I get all the benefits of a short and light fin with no drawbacks that I have noticed.

[rab1412000]

I switched to the SixGill fins after having a chance to test several types of fins on John Wagner's test machine in the Summer of 2009. The same machine as seen in John's Test Video. I was able to pull just as hard with the ASP Mantarays as I was with Scubapro Jet fins or my Avanti Quattros. The ASP Mantarays were the least fatiguing, especially at full power. I could not even come close to the same amount of thrust when testing the split fins.

What really sold me on them was my first surf entry with them on. They are are so much easier to deal with in surf than my Avanti Quattros.

I have tried both the steel spring straps and the included rubber strap. I prefer the included rubber strap, but both systems felt secure.

:thumbs-up I strongly recommend ASP Mantaray or SixGill fin. I am giving away my Avanti Quattros because I will ALWAYS choose the SixGill over them. I get all the benefits of a short and light fin with no drawbacks that I have noticed.

are you using the black fin or the white fin?
i bought the white finad found it a little too flexible. it was a size too small though and i did try it out for only two dives.. i have since sold them but i am considering getting an xl pair of mantarays. idid like it while i used it thugh, for the ease of finning, weight, compact design, and the general cool looks
my question is whether the stiffness of the black and white models are significantly differnt.
cheers

[Chocula]

are you using the black fin or the white fin?
i bought the white finad found it a little too flexible. it was a size too small though and i did try it out for only two dives.. i have since sold them but i am considering getting an xl pair of mantarays. idid like it while i used it thugh, for the ease of finning, weight, compact design, and the general cool looks
my question is whether the stiffness of the black and white models are significantly differnt.
cheers

I am using the black Deep Outdoors SixGill fin that can be found at Scuba.com. It is my understanding that they are a little stiffer than the non black ASP Mantarays, but I did not noticed a huge difference.

John Wagner who can be reached via the ASP website was very responsive to my inquiries last summer and can probably answer your question better than I can.