Comp.Air.Junkie
Contributor
Does anybody use a BC integrated octo? I don't think it's for me. I like to have control of my BC when ascending. Maybe I'm missing the boat here. Anybody had good luck with there's?
BC integrated octo's
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With an integrated unit you eliminate a hose which is more streamlined, your alternate air regulator is always in the same place and every time you use the inflator you practice reaching for your octo. Sharing air is a little different in the fact that you pass your primary to your buddy and you use the integrated regulator on the bc. Here are a couple of different types that are popular:
Oceanic Air XS II
Nitrox compatible to 40% (The recreational limits of Nitrox)
Replaces loose, hanging octo
Dive with one less hose
Convenient, fixed location
Inflator integrated secondary air source
Positioned at the end of the Buoyancy Compensator hose
Eliminating hose clutter, because you use the same hose to supply both the power inflator and your alternate air source, also known as safe-2nd or Octo
Compatible with Aeris and Oceanic 3/4 inch corrugated hose styles and all other 3/4 inch corrugated hose style BC’s
http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-33/035264/Oceanic-Air-XS-II.html
Sherwood Gemini Breathable Inflator
Brand new for 2007
Nitrox compatible to 40% (The recreational limits of Nitrox)
Dive with one less hose
Inflator integrated secondary air source
Bright ´´hi viz´´ yellow accents for easy identification
Convenient, fixed location
The Gemini is positioned at the end of the Buoyancy Compensator hose
Eliminating hose clutter, because you use the same hose to supply both the power inflator and your alternate air source, also known as safe-2nd or Octo
Compatible with all BC’s except by Aeris, Aqua-Lung, Cressi-Sub, Oceanic,
SeaQuest, US Divers, Dacor
http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-33/035038/Sherwood-Gemini-Breathable-Inflator.html
Oceanic Air XS II
Nitrox compatible to 40% (The recreational limits of Nitrox)
Replaces loose, hanging octo
Dive with one less hose
Convenient, fixed location
Inflator integrated secondary air source
Positioned at the end of the Buoyancy Compensator hose
Eliminating hose clutter, because you use the same hose to supply both the power inflator and your alternate air source, also known as safe-2nd or Octo
Compatible with Aeris and Oceanic 3/4 inch corrugated hose styles and all other 3/4 inch corrugated hose style BC’s
http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-33/035264/Oceanic-Air-XS-II.html
Sherwood Gemini Breathable Inflator
Brand new for 2007
Nitrox compatible to 40% (The recreational limits of Nitrox)
Dive with one less hose
Inflator integrated secondary air source
Bright ´´hi viz´´ yellow accents for easy identification
Convenient, fixed location
The Gemini is positioned at the end of the Buoyancy Compensator hose
Eliminating hose clutter, because you use the same hose to supply both the power inflator and your alternate air source, also known as safe-2nd or Octo
Compatible with all BC’s except by Aeris, Aqua-Lung, Cressi-Sub, Oceanic,
SeaQuest, US Divers, Dacor
http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-33/035038/Sherwood-Gemini-Breathable-Inflator.html
charlesml3
Contributor
Sure, I have a Zeagle Octo-Z. Not sure what you mean about "control of my BC while ascending." Integrating a 2nd stage at the power inflater doesn't change that. You still have control of everything.
I like them because it eliminates a hose. You already have a LP hose to your power inflater. Why not just make that a 2nd stage as well? If your buddy needs air, you take the integrated octo and give them your primary.
-Charles
I like them because it eliminates a hose. You already have a LP hose to your power inflater. Why not just make that a 2nd stage as well? If your buddy needs air, you take the integrated octo and give them your primary.
-Charles
underwasser bolt
Contributor
I use the Oceanic Air XS II and love it. comfortable to use. doing an ascent with it might take a bit more effort. The upper dump valve can be activated by pulling the BC hose. The controls for the BC are right there infront of you, still easy to use. I always practiced buddy breathing by giving my primary, because in a real situation someone out of air is likely to take it from your mouth at any rate, so why not train that way.
I've been using a scubapro air2 on my zeagle tech for 10 years. never had any issues. I believe most people who dislike the idea have never tried it.
I have an Air II and have used it to share air at 90 ft. Did a controlled ascent of 5 minutes, including a safety stop with no issues. The only disadvantage is the short primary hose puts the OOA diver very close to you. That can be good if they are in control. It could be bad if they panic, but thats what rescue classes are for! I am going to try a 5ft primary hose just to see if it is more comfortable for that.
The big issue is to practice with it. Make sure you breath of it regularly (Safety stops are good for that, as is while you are just cruising at your max depth).
The big issue is to practice with it. Make sure you breath of it regularly (Safety stops are good for that, as is while you are just cruising at your max depth).
I use the Air Source with my SeaQuest BC. I understand what you mean on control of the BC (I think). If you are breathing off the Air Source, you may find it more difficult to vent the BC or add air as you are using it. Is that what you mean? I actually find that it can be a LITTLE more inconvenient. The corrugated hose is twsited a little to get to your mouth the whole time, but it has not really impeded me at all. It just takes a little getting used to.
Try swimming around with it a little sometime if you get the opportunity. I do find them easier to breathe off of than normal octo's. I have not had any free flow issues with mine.
As an instructor, I actually have a more conventional octo on my setup for classes (so 3 air lines), but when I go out on my vacations, with friends, etc (non-teaching) I remove the conventional octo and just use the Air Source. I love the light packing one less hose takes, and it is SUPER easy to setup. With a wireless computer, I only have 2 hoses to deal with... so nice.
It really boils down to also how often you think you will need it. I have not needed the Air Source on a leisure dive yet. I do use the octo in class for demos etc, but never for true need... yet. The in-line alt air source is a bit pricier than conventional octos, but with the ability to really rid a hose, and keep it all that much more streamlined, it was a rationalizable expense for me.
Try swimming around with it a little sometime if you get the opportunity. I do find them easier to breathe off of than normal octo's. I have not had any free flow issues with mine.
As an instructor, I actually have a more conventional octo on my setup for classes (so 3 air lines), but when I go out on my vacations, with friends, etc (non-teaching) I remove the conventional octo and just use the Air Source. I love the light packing one less hose takes, and it is SUPER easy to setup. With a wireless computer, I only have 2 hoses to deal with... so nice.
It really boils down to also how often you think you will need it. I have not needed the Air Source on a leisure dive yet. I do use the octo in class for demos etc, but never for true need... yet. The in-line alt air source is a bit pricier than conventional octos, but with the ability to really rid a hose, and keep it all that much more streamlined, it was a rationalizable expense for me.
Wife and I switched to the AirSource on our SeaQuest BCD's about 2 years ago and have been extremely satisfied with the performance ...and the lack of a separate octo hose/secondary.
You do need to familiarize yourself with the difference in air donating practices with this type of set-up, as mentioned above, however if both you and your partner/buddy both have them it makes things a lot easier
You do need to familiarize yourself with the difference in air donating practices with this type of set-up, as mentioned above, however if both you and your partner/buddy both have them it makes things a lot easier
skdvr
Contributor
I use a Sherwood Shadow and love it as well... You just have to make sure that you tell people that you dive with that in case of a OOA that you will be giving them your primary, because your 2nd is to short to give to them...
Phil
Phil
The father of my buddies dives with an inflator/octo device and seems to love it. I, on the other hand, decided it wasn't for me.
Anyway, earlier this year, I was at some springs with one of his daughters (a decently well-trained diver with varied experience who was my buddy in our Rescue course last year). On the last dive, we decided to play around by practicing as many skills, routine and obscure, as we could come up with. One of them in particular proved quite enlightening.
Each of us, in turn, went "OOA" and accepted the other's alternate. Then, while sharing air, we made a full circuit of the spring basin to simulate the real-life situation of having to go back to an anchor line after an incident down on a wreck. Once we arrived back at the beginning, we swapped out and repeated the exercise sharing the other's gas. As you can see, it was a rather trivial skill, but as I said, it was quite enlightening.
The first thing I realized was that given the standard octo hose length, in order to breathe from her alternate while swimming side by side, I had to flip it upside-down in my mouth (which wasn't very comfortable) or swim along directly above her (which would impede communication precisely at a time when it is most important). My alternate isn't the standard second-stage shape, so that wasn't a problem with mine (although, admittedly, it's no sweet breather).
What *really* surprised both of us, however, was how little length a standard octo hose provides. We successfully made the circuits, but it was neither simple nor very comfortable. The thought of trying the same thing with the common primary second-stage hose length was downright laughable. If one of us were hugging the other (or the other's cylinder, as the case may be), perhaps we *might* be able to make some sort of headway, but it would be immensely more difficult.
We discussed the skills after the dive, and the air-sharing got much discussion. We basically agreed that the standard-hose-and-inflator/octo concept is simply not acceptable. It'll certainly work for making a direct ascent to the surface, but trying to make stops while that close would be... interesting..., and it would not be practically possible to proceed any significant distance to the anchor line. (Even on a wreck at 80', if there's a ripping current, you can be *quite* far down-current by the time a safe ascent breaks the surface.)
Using an inflator/octo together with an octo-length primary second-stage hose *would* be adequate, we decided, but it would require significant practice in order to be reasonably skilled enough for buoyancy control while breathing the inflator/octo in emergency air-sharing ascents. Practice would also be required in order to be able to properly handle manual inflation. (We've seen too many people have trouble with that skill and inflator/octos, even on the surface. They are simply more complicated to operate than plain inflators, as is readily obvious, so they require more practice.) Additionally, to breathe an inflator/octo, it must be in your mouth, but to exhaust gas from your BC, it must be above your BC. Swimming horizontally while controlling your buoyancy and breathing is therefore rather more complicated than it need be -- it's not an issue for a direct, vertical ascent, of course, if those are all you'll do or need to do.
We both decided to continue diving a "normal" inflator, primary, and octo configuration, although I always dive a pony (on anything over 19' and even on many things shallower), and the idea of a somewhat longer hose with which to share air is something we're certainly entertaining. Still, we could see how an inflator/octo-type configuration could be workable.
-- Personal commentary follows. Ignore if desired. --
My personal opinion, if I may mention it with all due respect, is that while there are certainly reasons a diver can choose to go with an inflator/octo, the whole "streamline yourself by eliminating a hose" approach is utter hogwash. Removing one narrow hose won't make a significant difference to your drag, and if anyone wants to rig up a tow-dummy to quantitatively show otherwise, I'll post a YouTube of myself eating this post (printed in non-toxic ink on organic paper, of course).
Decking students out in poorly configured gear with octo hoses connected such that they make giant flying loops off to the side is quite common from what I've seen, but all it takes is two minutes with a hex key and a crescent wrench to correct that lack of forethought and let the hoses lie where they ought. (The formerly-rental reg set a buddy of mine had was actually configured in the geometrically worst *possible* configuration of hoses in that order on that first stage. Simply moving two hoses changed it from a jaw-fatiguing primary and hula-hoop octo hose into a comfortable primary and a side-hugging octo hose.)
Some of the most skilled divers I've met have had long hoses, drysuits, can lights, or all other manner of unstreamlinity. I consider it an example of the worst in the "scuba industry" to tell people they can become better divers by trading out a hose and a wad of cash to "improve their streamlining". I don't mind people having inflator/octos. I not only *own* a pair of split fins, but I even understand which dives they're for and which dives are better served with my big lumps of black rubber. What gets my goat is simply when innocent divers are sold gear as snake oil for problems that don't exist. (The snake oil might be *excellent* for a nice stir fry, but it's not going to make your hair come back.)
Well, anyway.
-- End personal commentary. --
Anyway, earlier this year, I was at some springs with one of his daughters (a decently well-trained diver with varied experience who was my buddy in our Rescue course last year). On the last dive, we decided to play around by practicing as many skills, routine and obscure, as we could come up with. One of them in particular proved quite enlightening.
Each of us, in turn, went "OOA" and accepted the other's alternate. Then, while sharing air, we made a full circuit of the spring basin to simulate the real-life situation of having to go back to an anchor line after an incident down on a wreck. Once we arrived back at the beginning, we swapped out and repeated the exercise sharing the other's gas. As you can see, it was a rather trivial skill, but as I said, it was quite enlightening.
The first thing I realized was that given the standard octo hose length, in order to breathe from her alternate while swimming side by side, I had to flip it upside-down in my mouth (which wasn't very comfortable) or swim along directly above her (which would impede communication precisely at a time when it is most important). My alternate isn't the standard second-stage shape, so that wasn't a problem with mine (although, admittedly, it's no sweet breather).
What *really* surprised both of us, however, was how little length a standard octo hose provides. We successfully made the circuits, but it was neither simple nor very comfortable. The thought of trying the same thing with the common primary second-stage hose length was downright laughable. If one of us were hugging the other (or the other's cylinder, as the case may be), perhaps we *might* be able to make some sort of headway, but it would be immensely more difficult.
We discussed the skills after the dive, and the air-sharing got much discussion. We basically agreed that the standard-hose-and-inflator/octo concept is simply not acceptable. It'll certainly work for making a direct ascent to the surface, but trying to make stops while that close would be... interesting..., and it would not be practically possible to proceed any significant distance to the anchor line. (Even on a wreck at 80', if there's a ripping current, you can be *quite* far down-current by the time a safe ascent breaks the surface.)
Using an inflator/octo together with an octo-length primary second-stage hose *would* be adequate, we decided, but it would require significant practice in order to be reasonably skilled enough for buoyancy control while breathing the inflator/octo in emergency air-sharing ascents. Practice would also be required in order to be able to properly handle manual inflation. (We've seen too many people have trouble with that skill and inflator/octos, even on the surface. They are simply more complicated to operate than plain inflators, as is readily obvious, so they require more practice.) Additionally, to breathe an inflator/octo, it must be in your mouth, but to exhaust gas from your BC, it must be above your BC. Swimming horizontally while controlling your buoyancy and breathing is therefore rather more complicated than it need be -- it's not an issue for a direct, vertical ascent, of course, if those are all you'll do or need to do.
We both decided to continue diving a "normal" inflator, primary, and octo configuration, although I always dive a pony (on anything over 19' and even on many things shallower), and the idea of a somewhat longer hose with which to share air is something we're certainly entertaining. Still, we could see how an inflator/octo-type configuration could be workable.
-- Personal commentary follows. Ignore if desired. --
My personal opinion, if I may mention it with all due respect, is that while there are certainly reasons a diver can choose to go with an inflator/octo, the whole "streamline yourself by eliminating a hose" approach is utter hogwash. Removing one narrow hose won't make a significant difference to your drag, and if anyone wants to rig up a tow-dummy to quantitatively show otherwise, I'll post a YouTube of myself eating this post (printed in non-toxic ink on organic paper, of course).
Decking students out in poorly configured gear with octo hoses connected such that they make giant flying loops off to the side is quite common from what I've seen, but all it takes is two minutes with a hex key and a crescent wrench to correct that lack of forethought and let the hoses lie where they ought. (The formerly-rental reg set a buddy of mine had was actually configured in the geometrically worst *possible* configuration of hoses in that order on that first stage. Simply moving two hoses changed it from a jaw-fatiguing primary and hula-hoop octo hose into a comfortable primary and a side-hugging octo hose.)
Some of the most skilled divers I've met have had long hoses, drysuits, can lights, or all other manner of unstreamlinity. I consider it an example of the worst in the "scuba industry" to tell people they can become better divers by trading out a hose and a wad of cash to "improve their streamlining". I don't mind people having inflator/octos. I not only *own* a pair of split fins, but I even understand which dives they're for and which dives are better served with my big lumps of black rubber. What gets my goat is simply when innocent divers are sold gear as snake oil for problems that don't exist. (The snake oil might be *excellent* for a nice stir fry, but it's not going to make your hair come back.)
Well, anyway.
-- End personal commentary. --
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