Can I get bent in a pool? Terrible pain in my joints.

[harleyxx]

Saturday 8-4-07 my daughter and I planned a dive at a local spring. When we got there the park was full and they wouldn't let anyone else in. So we went back home and practiced some skills in our pool. The pool is only 8'-0 deep. We were in the water for about 1-1/2 hours swimming around, working on our bouyancy, ...ect. Not all of this happened at the 8'-0 level. We were back & forth from 8'0 to the surface.

Well, the next day Sun 8-7-07 I woke up with a pain in my hip. It got steadily worse as the day went on, to the point that it was difficult to walk at the end of the day.

I figured, I was just out of shape and since I was well within my No decompression limit there was no chance of DCS. I woke up Monday Morning 8-8-07 and the pain in my hip was completely gone. However the knuckles on the index finger of my right hand had started to hurt. It steadily got worse. BY the end of the day Tues it hurt so bad I could not bend it or even type with it. Now today Wed 8-9-07 My right elbow has started to hurt real bad. I cannot bend my right arm. My knuckles on my right hand are starting to hurt and get stiff. And my left hand is worse.

I am 44 220lb, A little overweight. But otherwise in good health. My tank was nitrox 36%.

I cannot explain the pain in my joints, but I don't see how it is possible I could get bent under these circumstances.

As I type this I am unable to use my left index finger because the pressure on the keys is excruciating.

My daughter tells me that there is no way I could get DCS in the pool, we went over the dive tables and I agree that it doesn't seem possible.

Is there any way I could have gotten bent, and if I did, have I waited to long to get help?

[D_B]

call DAN ...

Diving Emergency .... 919-684-4326 (24hrs)
Non-Emergency Dive Questions .. 919-684-2948 (8:30am - 8:00pm EST M - F )

and call your doctor .. you need to find out what's going on as soon as possible

[Web Monkey]

bad I could not bend it or even type with it. Now today Wed 8-9-07 My right elbow has started to hurt real bad. I cannot bend my right arm. My knuckles on my right hand are starting to hurt and get stiff. And my left hand is worse.
. . .

I cannot explain the pain in my joints, but I don't see how it is possible I could get bent under these circumstances.


Absolutely call DAN immediately.

Some things get better with time, however other things become permanent. Only a doctor can tell you which you have.

Terry

[RoatanMan]

Call DAN, you bet. I'm not sure why, but certainly there's no reason "why not".

Since we're now calling DAN for dives in a pool, I guess that settles the old SB argument about logging such dives. ;)

My guess? Spinal compression.

We get into wierd positions when we dive, some due to weighting and buoyancy, some others due to arching backs and craning necks up & back.

Because of some previous injuries (non dive) there are days I can barely walk. Give me a week of weightless diving- I can dance (for a few minutes!)

I have also learned that pressures directly applied by weights/bc/pack can exert enough force to excite nerves in the spine. I have a Poseidon BeSea (BC) that is specifically designed to minimize these issues. It is perfect for walking any distance (shore diving) in your rig. If I'm on a liveaboard, I take a BPW, if doing shore dives (like CCV), I use this wonderful, supportive BC.

Once you get into a neutral swimming position, relatively horizontal in the water column- It is a very easy thing to do to cock your head back, straining hard against your upper spine, really cranking the muscle group on your upper back. Later on, you may feel the effect in your fingertips.

Hips? They can easily be tweaked by finning, which- for most of us, is a "new" exercise fraught with next day aches and pains.

[Mitchell]

Hip pain could be too much weight on a belt.

I'm curious also to hear the result.

Good Luck

[charlesml3]

I would be completely beyond shocked if you were bent from an 8' dive in a pool. There just isnt enough pressure at that miniscule depth to dissolve nitrogen into your bloodstream.

-Charles

[Friggincold]

How about Lyme's disease it exhibits those symptoms. Been bit by any bugs lately?.........

[ScubaFreak]

Guys getting bent in a pool is a very real possibility and has happened in the past.
If you spent over an hour in the pool and you ascend and descend regularly enough and too fast, there is absolutley a chance of possible "bending" (;))
I'm not saying this is what has happened, but it most certainly can!

Check with DAN and let us know.

SF

[harleyxx]

I just got off the phone with DAN. The medic I talked to said that under the circumstances there is virtually no way my body could have absorbed enough nitrogen to cause DCS. But he suggested that I get to my DR ASAP and gave me the Number for Florida Hospital. They have a unit that is set up for dive related plroblems.

The medic said that they handle about 1000 cases a year and the data just doesn't support DCS under such circumstances.

Thanks for the responces prompting me to call DAN. That helped me rule out that possibility.

I never get sick, I havent missed a day of work in 27 years, so this extreme pain out of the blue is baffling me.

[Geoff_H]

Guys getting bent in a pool is a very real possibility and has happened in the past.
If you spent over an hour in the pool and you ascend and descend regularly enough and too fast, there is absolutley a chance of possible "bending" (;))



I don't really think this is true. You simply don't dissolve enough nitrogen into your bloodsteam at less than 3 metres deep. Even if you pop to the surface quickly, there will not be enough bubbles coming out of solution to cause even subclinical DCS.

However, there is a definite chance of barotrauma (lung or other air space over expansion) which can be extremely nasty. However this is not "the bends" and would not explain the symptoms of the OP.

[charlesml3]

Exactly. In 8' of water you simply aren't under enough pressure to dissolve nitrogen into your bloodstream. It just isn't possible.

-Charles

[reeldive]

Welcome to Old Age!

All jokeing aside hope you called DAN and are OK. You should probably see your regular Doc as well

[Web Monkey]

Thanks for the responces prompting me to call DAN. That helped me rule out that possibility.

I never get sick, I havent missed a day of work in 27 years, so this extreme pain out of the blue is baffling me.

Regardless of wether it's DCS or even dive related, you need to have it looked at really soon.

Terry

[harleyxx]

The medic at Dan said that is is highly unlikely that I could get DCS in a pool under the circumstances I described. He said he had never heard of a case where this happened. I am going to see my Doc on Friday & have some blood tests.
This is so strange because I lead a very active life, surfing, canoeing, working out, and of course diving when I get a chance. From what I've read DCS symptoms rarely affect the hands.
I did not see swelling as a symptom of DCS. My knuckles and fingers are now swollen to almost twice the normal size. Tingling like crazy!

[harleyxx]

I feel like a dweeb for calling Dan now. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. If I'm going to get bent I sure don't want it to be in my own pool!
When I called Dan, they were very helpful.

[stevewirl]

hi guys ,:D
just a word to the wise . iv never heard of someone bending from a pool .

but .:eyebrow:

if dive physics teaches us that at pressure a gas in contact with a liquid can be dissolved into that said liquid .
this means that at a ambient pressure of 1.3 where this guy was that he was on gassing for an hour and a half .
after which he was off gassing , no problem there and there sould be no problem with what he done .esspically with ean 36

but to become fully saturated at this depth and for it to cause any problems would mean that he would have to be at this depth for weeks before surfacing .

in my opinion its a traped nerve caused by weight belt or lifting the scuba gear

[stevewirl]

never feel like a dweeb .

safty first

asking questions only gets you ans

no such thing as a stupid question

[Web Monkey]

I feel like a dweeb for calling Dan now. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. If I'm going to get bent I sure don't want it to be in my own pool!
When I called Dan, they were very helpful.

Never feel like a dweeb for calling them. That's what they're there for.

If you want to really feel like a dweeb, try not calling them, then later discover that you have a permanent case of non-repairable-whatever that could have been easily fixed if handled promptly.

Terry

[DeepSeaExplorer]

There's no way to get bent in 8 feet of water. Even the PADI tables don't start until 35 ft. At 8 feet, you couldn't possibly carry enough air to stay down long enough to get bent. You would need surface supplied air.

[harleyxx]

There's no way to get bent in 8 feet of water. Even the PADI tables don't start until 35 ft. At 8 feet, you couldn't possibly carry enough air to stay down long enough to get bent. You would need surface supplied air.

Thats what I thought. My wife called her brother who is a paramedic, nurse & cave diver and he suggested that it was possible if was continually going from the surface to the deep end. I didn't believe him but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Someone else here also stated that it was possible. Dan says virtually no way. I am comfortable with that. I am convinced there must be some other reason. Which is good because I would hate to have to quit diving. Typing is almost impossible now, so I will post again when I find out what is wrong.

[muddiver]

Sorry I was not online eairlier because I would have let you know that it is very unlikly that one could get bent in less than 30' of water.

The USN table has a max. time at 30 feet of around 310 minutes. That is over five hours.

I have done working dives for up to four hours in 30' to 50' of water, over 30 days and returned to the surface each dive without any DCS symptoms.

[rigdiver]

Bent No. Embolism possibly. Pinched nerve probably.

[DeepSeaExplorer]

You did the right thing by calling DAN and asking around. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, figuring out what the problem really is is probably going to be more difficult.

[scubadobadoo]

You did the right thing by calling DAN and asking around. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, figuring out what the problem really is is probably going to be more difficult.

Back pain and pinched nerves are a big/frequent problem and most doctors will simply tell you that you are getting older and that will be 800 please for the bill.;)

Good luck! I had some back pain that seemed inexplicable last year and it was horrible. A little massage therapy and some basic/light weight training and stretching helped. Staying stress free also helps.

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I feel for ya'... I pulled my back recently and was walking wounded for almost 10 days. Fortunately, it was only a short-term injury, but it was a wakeup call to be more careful as I try to maintain my youthful lifestyle. :)

[jracca]

It seems to me the DAN medic knows what they are talking about, particularly since
you were using 36% nitrox, you would not be ongassing nitrogren at 8 feet. your partial pressure of nitrogen is just about equal to atmospheric pressure .. .795 by my calculation so its nearly impossible that your symptoms are bends.

From the symptoms you describe I might guess arthitis, possibly gout since during immersion you tend to become dehydrated and you are not taking on any fluids. Some forms of arthitis are brought on by dehydration, so if you were out in the sun without adequate fluid intake that would be a possibility, since that could explain the joint swelling.

Just my random musings

[NTSilver]

Ditto on the pinched nerve. Tingling in the extremeties is a symptom. My pain was concentrated in my shoulder and was so bad I did not sleep for almost two weeks. It's much better now but I still have shoulder weakness. As someone else stated, it's sucks getting old...

[D_B]

Exactly. In 8' of water you simply aren't under enough pressure to dissolve nitrogen into your bloodstream. It just isn't possible.

-Charlesnot to mention the fact that with 36% in your tank, you would actually have less nitrogen in your blood than someone who stayed on the surface

Edit: Oh, already mentioned

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Back pain and pinched nerves are a big/frequent problem and most doctors will simply tell you that you are getting older and that will be 800 please for the bill.;)

Good luck! I had some back pain that seemed inexplicable last year and it was horrible. A little massage therapy and some basic/light weight training and stretching helped. Staying stress free also helps.

Could you please tell me where I can bill someone 800 dollars for an office visit to tell them they have a pinched nerve...I'd like to move there. In Pennsylvania, I get about sixty dollars to do that from the best payers and about 10 bucks or nothing at all for many.


Back on point, I agree that DCS in this profile seems unlikely.

[scubadobadoo]

Could you please tell me where I can bill someone 800 dollars for an office visit to tell them they have a pinched nerve...I'd like to move there. In Pennsylvania, I get about sixty dollars to do that from the best payers and about 10 bucks or nothing at all for many.


Back on point, I agree that DCS in this profile seems unlikely.

Most of my Doctor visits take place on the upper east side of Manhattan.;)

[cancun mark]

It is possible to get DCS in the pool, I know an instructor who got it, admitedly under extreem circumstances in a 12 ft dive tank, however under the OP's type of profile normal dcs is highly unlikely.

There is a type of dcs called shock dcs that could account for it. it is usually caused from rapid ascents from shallow depths and has little to do with NDL's, most often caused by a diver accidently popping up from a safety stop for some reason.

It is kind of the same as when you hit an open beer bottle with another beer bottle and it causes it to overflow when before it was ok.

[Bob3]

My vote is for the nerve pinch, but some strange critters can grow in pool water if it's not filtered / treated properly.
34' freshwater used to be the unlimited NDL but was raised to 28' or thereabouts maybe 10 - 15 years ago.
I've spent 10 - 11 hrs / day 7 days a week for months at a time in the 15' - 20' range with nothing to show for it but real wrinkly hands & a big donation to the IRS.
Keep us posted though, & if you need a good cervical traction unit I have a spare. ;)

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Most of my Doctor visits take place on the upper east side of Manhattan.;)

I apologize!:D

[harleyxx]

My right hand is completely immoble now, i guess thats the word I can't move it at all.
My right shoulder, elbow, knee & ankle are hurting bad . Intense pain & swelling. I could barely drive to work today. Im going to the doc in about 1 hr from now.

[D_B]

My right hand is completely immoble now, i guess thats the word I can't move it at all.
My right shoulder, elbow, knee & ankle are hurting bad . Intense pain & swelling. I could barely drive to work today. Im going to the doc in about 1 hr from now.&%*$!!!?
Good luck, I wish you well

[scubadobadoo]

My right hand is completely immoble now, i guess thats the word I can't move it at all.
My right shoulder, elbow, knee & ankle are hurting bad . Intense pain & swelling. I could barely drive to work today. Im going to the doc in about 1 hr from now.

Our thoughts are with you Harleyxx!

[limbo]

How about Lyme's disease it exhibits those symptoms. Been bit by any bugs lately?.........

Nobody else picked up on this?

It doesn't necessarily always have to be a dive related problem, especially looking at the circumstances.

Good luck though, Harleyxx

[Web Monkey]

There are all sorts of things it could be, many not even related to diving or water. Around here, joint pain could even be Lyme disease.

I like you guys a lot, but when something hurts, I go ask a real doctor, in person. 8-)

Terry





My vote is for the nerve pinch, but some strange critters can grow in pool water if it's not filtered / treated properly.
34' freshwater used to be the unlimited NDL but was raised to 28' or thereabouts maybe 10 - 15 years ago.
I've spent 10 - 11 hrs / day 7 days a week for months at a time in the 15' - 20' range with nothing to show for it but real wrinkly hands & a big donation to the IRS.
Keep us posted though, & if you need a good cervical traction unit I have a spare. ;)

[RoatanMan]

Could you please tell me where I can bill someone 800 dollars for an office visit to tell them they have a pinched nerve.

Chicago.

That's the same town where I pay $350 cash for an MRI. If I submit it to insurance, the MRI office gets paid $1800 and I get a co-pay bill of $375.

Makes sense to me. Anybody know Michael Moore's number?

[Wozzer]

I agree with everyone who says DCI is highly unlikely. However I don't think it's a "pinched nerve" either - that really wouldn't explain pain in both your upper AND lower extremities (unless you had a bunch of nerve compressions).

However it definitely sounds like you have SOMETHING, there are a number of causes of migratory (moving from joint to joint) polyarthritis (>1 joint), including infection and autoimmune diseases. You mentioned your daughter, is there any change you've had a recent strep throat infection that wasn't treated by antibiotics? In any case, I'd see a doctor :-)

[Wozzer]

Chicago.

That's the same town where I pay $350 cash for an MRI. If I submit it to insurance, the MRI office gets paid $1800 and I get a co-pay bill of $375.

Makes sense to me. Anybody know Michael Moore's number?

In other countries, you likely would not be allowed to have a CT or MRI. If we switch to socialized medicine, people won't be getting MRI's for 2/10 wrist pain anymore :-)

[scuba70]

Numbness and tingling are one thing, but the swelling is another. I would thing a quick trip to the ER would be in order. Hope everything works out OK.
Harley, let us know what happens.

[docmartin]

In other countries, you likely would not be allowed to have a CT or MRI. If we switch to socialized medicine, people won't be getting MRI's for 2/10 wrist pain anymore :-)
you mean you would have to pay for it like here?

[harleyxx]

Went to the Doc Waited for two hrs before he saw me. He talked to me for 5 min and sent me for blood tests. He also ruled out DCI. I 'm glad for that. He didn't offer any possible causes, when I asked he said he didn't know, but to come back in a week, or go to the ER if it got worse.

I'm thinking bacterial infection from the pool. Cant walk now, have to hop on one leg.
I feel great otherwise. No fever, no headache, Blood Pressure is OK. Just pain in every joint from my shoulder to my ankle.

It looks like this probably has nothing to do with diving. Thanks for all the suggestions & comments. I hope it goes away so I can get back in the water soon. Sat I bought my Daughter a new Regulator, gauges...ect. She was going to take her Nitrox course today but she came to the Doc with me instead. What a good girl.

[Web Monkey]

I'm thinking bacterial infection from the pool. Cant walk now, have to hop on one leg.


Your doc is an idiot. Go to the ER!

He doesn't need to know everything, but should know when he's out of his league on something potentially serious.

Terry

[Wozzer]

Not being able to walk is sort of a big deal, I would head to the ER.

[Divin' Dave]

Harley,
I'm a physician and what you've said so far is very worrisome. I concur with the above comments that a visit to the ER is indicated. Joint pain and swelling like you describe needs an urgent diagnosis, especially if it has a bacterial cause. Please don't delay and keep us informed.
David

[TSandM]

I concur . . . Inability to walk is a big red flag for ER docs. It sounds as though you have some kind of severe, acute inflammatory process going on involving your joints. It should be diagnosed if possible (eg. taps of synovial fluid of swollen, hot joints) and treated appropriately to minimize the damage to the joints going on during the acute process.

[tracydr]

The medic at Dan said that is is highly unlikely that I could get DCS in a pool under the circumstances I described. He said he had never heard of a case where this happened. I am going to see my Doc on Friday & have some blood tests.
This is so strange because I lead a very active life, surfing, canoeing, working out, and of course diving when I get a chance. From what I've read DCS symptoms rarely affect the hands.
I did not see swelling as a symptom of DCS. My knuckles and fingers are now swollen to almost twice the normal size. Tingling like crazy!
There are a lot of rheumatology/autoimmune problems that can cause these symptoms and they can occur suddenly. I had a reaction to an infection last winter that caused unbelievable joint pains. My doctor thinks it was an allergic reaction to a yeast overload after being on multiple IV antibiotics. It could have been a side effect of one of the medications too. As quickly as the joint pains came, one day they were gone, never to return again. Very weird!
I'm very glad you're getting bloodwork done and hope it answers the question for you.

[tracydr]

Bent No. Embolism possibly. Pinched nerve probably.
Pinched nerve or embolism does not in any way explain the swollen fingers. Impossible.

[Tigerman]

In other countries, you likely would not be allowed to have a CT or MRI. If we switch to socialized medicine, people won't be getting MRI's for 2/10 wrist pain anymore :-)
Thats straight up a load of BS :no

Harley, I hope you get the medical attention you need and a doctor that takes this matter serious. Get well soon

[tracydr]

Could you please tell me where I can bill someone 800 dollars for an office visit to tell them they have a pinched nerve...I'd like to move there. In Pennsylvania, I get about sixty dollars to do that from the best payers and about 10 bucks or nothing at all for many.


Back on point, I agree that DCS in this profile seems unlikely.
Thanks! I was thinking the same thing!!:rofl3:

[tracydr]

Went to the Doc Waited for two hrs before he saw me. He talked to me for 5 min and sent me for blood tests. He also ruled out DCI. I 'm glad for that. He didn't offer any possible causes, when I asked he said he didn't know, but to come back in a week, or go to the ER if it got worse.

I'm thinking bacterial infection from the pool. Cant walk now, have to hop on one leg.
I feel great otherwise. No fever, no headache, Blood Pressure is OK. Just pain in every joint from my shoulder to my ankle.

It looks like this probably has nothing to do with diving. Thanks for all the suggestions & comments. I hope it goes away so I can get back in the water soon. Sat I bought my Daughter a new Regulator, gauges...ect. She was going to take her Nitrox course today but she came to the Doc with me instead. What a good girl.
I think you should head to the ER. This is beginning to sound very ominous and I'm not convinced your doctor took it seriously enough. When does he get the blood tests back? Hope he sent the CBC and ESR stat to get back same day. Otherwise, yikes!! With the way this is going, I'd say infection is first on my list.

[AbyssalPlains]

I feel like a dweeb for calling Dan now. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. If I'm going to get bent I sure don't want it to be in my own pool!
When I called Dan, they were very helpful.

You absolutely and positively did the right thing. Hope you get better soon.

[mania]

I have taken out of this thread discussion on the nitrox training.
You can find these posts here:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=197632

Harleyxx, did you go to ER?

Mania

[Jasminka]

I really hope u went to a doctor. I have a number of cases where they said nothing was wrong but people were persistant and that saved them.
Jus to let u know, just had ottis..after 14 dazs went to alocal doctor at the palce where I was staying for my holidays..he said of course I can dive, just protect your ear and put sth in it.
this clearly shows how much they know about diving in general. Being bent in a pool is also possible...I was diving for 75 min on air 3 m deepest and was so exhausted afterwords...never felt like that..first symptom..
the bottom line is u never know, dont rely on what somebody says, insist on a proper check up!

Thinking about U!

[harleyxx]

THe Doc said that the blood tests would be back in a week. No I did not go to the ER. Last night I was unable to put any presure on my right ankle or even rotate it because of the pain. But this morning all the pain in my ankle and right hand were gone, now they are just a little stiff. The right shoulder feels a lot better too, minor pain when I raise my arms up, but nothing like before.
So far, I seem to have intense pain & swelling for a day or two followed by minor pain & stiffness.
I have not gone to the ER. I will if it gets bad again. But right now I can deal with it.

One thing is still nagging me. I did not analyze my own air after it was filled. I don't have my own analyzer and I forgot to do it when it was filled the day before we dove in the pool.
I know its my responsibility but I just forgot.
I'm going to get it analyzed tomorrow just to satisfy my curiosity.

Your right, the Doctor did not take me seriously. He only checked my Blood pressure & my temperature, no real physical exam. I am going to call Monday morning to see if he can speed up the test results. I need to know what is causing this so I can get back to my normal life.
I know this is not a forum for general medical discussion that is not Dive related, and I don't want to take up any more bandwith or whatever you call it if it is not related to our pool dive. If the air Analysis checks out then I will at least have eliminated diving as a factor. I also don't want to make anyone unduly concerned about diving in general. there are enough real risks without adding wierd medical problems that may not even be related.
I thank all of you for your concern.
I hope my next post will be a dive report.

[dkramer]

Okay, I'll be honest, I have not read the entire thread but I would like to relate what happened to me. I did a shallow water dive, down about an hour w/ max depth being 12 feet. Next day, hip hurts, I figure I'm just old. Then it travels to the knee & then on down to my foot. I too called DAN after several days because , although I didn't believe I could be bent after such a shallow dive, I couldn't figure out what was happening. Wonderful folks at DAN. Never be afraid to call them because you think you are being silly. Anyway, ended up, I had a case of shingles. Totally unrelated to my dive.

[wedivebc]

One thing is still nagging me. I did not analyze my own air after it was filled. I don't have my own analyzer and I forgot to do it when it was filled the day before we dove in the pool.
I know its my responsibility but I just forgot.
I'm going to get it analyzed tomorrow just to satisfy my curiosity.
.
What are you going to test the air for?

[D_B]

I would think for the level of O2 ... "My tank was nitrox 36%."

[BSK]

that doesnt sound good at all, either way here is my input:

first off: every person is different and not everyone is reacting the same way so comparing what one person did with another works most of the time its not an accurate way of comparing things.

dive tables are good but can be different for people with different medical issues/compositions

as for the blood tests: one week is one heck of a time!!! when i worked medical we would have them within 2 days max when send out or within hours if brought to the local hospital lab

did you change your fluid intake over the last couple of days/weeks? started a new medication, changed work area or exposures at work?

good luck!

[Kailuadiver]

Dude you yo yo dived, Drain your pool.

[AbyssalPlains]

Dude you yo yo dived, Drain your pool.

??????

[RS]

the flu.

[Splitlip]

I would think for the level of O2 ... "My tank was nitrox 36%."

It's not going to help with a diagnosis, I think was the point.

[Tigerman]

If it helps satisfying his curiosity, thats sort of the important part tho?
I know I sure as heck cant sleep if im too curious about something :p

[Missdirected]

Have you recently been bitten by anything, no matter how insignificant it may have seemed?

Edit: OMG, I am sure someone already answered this - I didn't show at first there were already four pages on this. sorry

[Doc Ed]

Did the doc order a culture and sensitivity test for the blood? might be the reason the results are taking a week.

[diver 85]

the flu.


or Herpes........well, some kind of a virus, anyway........

[Wozzer]

Thats straight up a load of BS :no

Harley, I hope you get the medical attention you need and a doctor that takes this matter serious. Get well soon

In countries with socialized medicine, there is a single buyer (government). Spending is less than the US for the following reasons:
1) The gov't refuses to provide as many expensive procedures as they do in the US
2) There is a single buyer, the gov't is able to force sellers to lower prices (no free market)
3) The US pays more for pharmaceuticals, and thus pays for drug research. The rest of the world mooches off us and benefits from our drug research but doesn't pay for it, because they pay less for their drugs (because the drugs are still sold above the marginal cost for drug production, BUT if the US didn't pay higher costs to fund the research, said drugs wouldn't exist)

In the US, patients are provided a lot of expensive procedures for relatively minor problems. In countries with socialized medicine, this is not the case (for example, expensive imaging studies like CT and MRI). Hope that helps explain what I was trying to get at!

[D_B]

It's not going to help with a diagnosis, I think was the point.oops, I've gotta remove these dang blinders ;)

[stevewirl]

even if the bottle was 100% o2 at a depth of 9ft o2 reaches a ppos of 1.3 . well outside the nitrox limit .

but my friends allways annalise .

my friends and i are techs , the dark side :14: . and one of the guys left in his gas bottle for his ccr last year when on a trip to get filled and they put the wrong gas in the wrong bottle .

only for he annalise he would be dead .

as we are thought on nitrox and other courses

ANALISE OR DIE

[tonka97]

ANALISE OR DIE

Yes, constipation can be terminal.

:D

[Puffer Fish]

I am somewhat surprized at the responses here and by the doctor, there are several reasons this could have happened other than the already mentioned infection issue.

It is very easy to dehydrate one self while diving and bring on a whole list of very painful issues... gout and psudo gout for example. Normally they would be in a big toe or a extremety joint, but first attacks can be any joint or lots of joints. And first time attacks, if brought on by some other issue can be very large. Actually any immune system over reaction could cause the symtoms described here. I would suggest it is time to see a better doctor.

[SNorman]

Thats straight up a load of BS :no



You have to wait years in some cases to wait for life saving medical procedures in countries with socialized medicine, I doubt aches and pains would take priority ;)

[DiverBizz]

Well I am waiting to hear about the blood test results. I hope all is well.

[Davidstealey3]

i am glad to hear that DAN said you were not bent. i hope you wrote down the number if you need it again. if not go to a local dive shop and get some of DAN's stickers. they have the number on it if you were to need it again.


I would be completely beyond shocked if you were bent from an 8' dive in a pool. There just isnt enough pressure at that miniscule depth to dissolve nitrogen into your bloodstream.

-Charles

as for Charles, remember back to your training when you were told the biggest change of pressure was the first 33 feet. that is because this is the first doubling of pressure on your body. while it might be uncommon to get bent in 8 feet, if you spend enough time, go up and down alot, and add other factors of DCS to the secnerio, you can still stand a chance to get bent.

[DeepSeaExplorer]

as for Charles, remember back to your training when you were told the biggest change of pressure was the first 33 feet. that is because this is the first doubling of pressure on your body. while it might be uncommon to get bent in 8 feet, if you spend enough time, go up and down alot, and add other factors of DCS to the secnerio, you can still stand a chance to get bent.

It may be the greater area of pressure change, but the pressure is too low to accumulate much Nitrogen. To get bent in 8 feet of water you would have to stay down like 8 hours. I don't think anyone can get that kind of time on a single tank. I've stayed down for 4 hours with a maximum depth of 35 feet (with doubles) and my computer still indicated several hours remaining before deco.

[RS]

ANALISE OR DIE


Post deleted.

[RS]

i am glad to hear that DAN said you were not bent. i hope you wrote down the number if you need it again. if not go to a local dive shop and get some of DAN's stickers. they have the number on it if you were to need it again.



as for Charles, remember back to your training when you were told the biggest change of pressure was the first 33 feet. that is because this is the first doubling of pressure on your body. while it might be uncommon to get bent in 8 feet, if you spend enough time, go up and down alot, and add other factors of DCS to the secnerio, you can still stand a chance to get bent.

I think the chances of getting bent from a dive to 8 feet depth are about the same as getting bent from a flight on a commercial airliner. Hope you are OK.

Most sincerely

[RS]

Guys getting bent in a pool is a very real possibility and has happened in the past.
If you spent over an hour in the pool and you ascend and descend regularly enough and too fast, there is absolutley a chance of possible "bending" (;))
I'm not saying this is what has happened, but it most certainly can!

Check with DAN and let us know.

SF

This has happened? What is your source of information?

I dive in my pool regularly with a respectful regard for decompression requirements, and have never exceeded any no stop limit.:D

[Jeff Toorish]

as for Charles, remember back to your training when you were told the biggest change of pressure was the first 33 feet. that is because this is the first doubling of pressure on your body. while it might be uncommon to get bent in 8 feet, if you spend enough time, go up and down alot, and add other factors of DCS to the secnerio, you can still stand a chance to get bent.

He was using EAN 36 --that means he was not loading nitrogen in any appreciable manner. On Nitrox, your body reacts to depth a bit differently, essentially subtracting some depth. So, from a nitrogen absorption perspective, this guy was pretty much on the surface the entire time.

Also, the point about the biggest change in pressure in the first atmosphere, in DCS situation is more about coming up from a deeper depth; the final ATA is where there would be the most impact. But again, that would not really mean much in this situation.

Jeff

[harleyxx]

Both Dan and my Dr. ruled out any possibility that this was related to my diving in my pool.
The Doctor still isn't sure what caused this yet but I am leaning toward an intense case of gout. He agreed that this was a possibility.
Prior to this problem I was on a high protein diet, (trying to lose some weight) I lost about 30 lbs. However this high level of Protein in my blood caused an excess of uric acid in my blood. The acid settled in my joints and soft tissue and formed needle-like crystals. This caused the terrible pain & swelling.

I did a lot of research on the internet and drastically changed my diet, cutting out almost all protein, (untilo this is over) the symptoms are almost gone now, no thanks to my HMO.
He made me wait a whole week in agony before he finally referred me to a rhumatologist. He could have done that the same day the first time I saw him. There was only 1 Rhumatologist on out HMO plan and they said they couldn't see me until the end of October. It was like pulling teeth to get the HMO to approve a different Rhumatologist that could see me the next day.

Also too, he told me that it would take a week for the blood tests to come back but the receptionist told me that the test were back the next day. I am changing to a PPO as soon as possible,

I was very dehydrated before, so now I am drinking a lot more water & a lot less Jack & Coke.

[BSK]

thats good to hear!

[scuba70]

I'm glad you finally got some resolution to your problems. Get well soon and get back to diving!

[D_B]

Glad to hear you finally have a handle on this :)

[Texasdivechick]

Interesting that you mentioned hip pain and finger joint pain, since these are symptoms that I have been exhibiting for weeks now. When I did a bit of reflecting back on all my activities, I realized that my hip pain started when I got new fins and started using a different kicking style to compensate. The finger joint pain is most likely due to carrying tanks by the valve. Oh, and I just had a birthday and realized I'm getting old. Have you been experimenting with different equipment or swimming styles that might have thrown your muscles and joints for a loop?

[Thalassamania]

There is some argument about how deep you must dive in order to get bend. I've heard figures (from competent authorities) of 24 and 27 feet as the maximum depth a diver could saturate and then come safely to the surface (just because the PADI tables start at 35 feet don't you go saturating at 34 feet and expect to be OK).

Bends at 8 feet? No.

[trigfunctions]

the symptoms are almost gone now, no thanks to my HMO.
He made me wait a whole week in agony before he finally referred me to a rhumatologist. He could have done that the same day the first time I saw him. There was only 1 Rhumatologist on out HMO plan and they said they couldn't see me until the end of October. It was like pulling teeth to get the HMO to approve a different Rhumatologist that could see me the next day.

Also too, he told me that it would take a week for the blood tests to come back but the receptionist told me that the test were back the next day. I am changing to a PPO as soon as possible

Good thing we don't have socialized medicine in the U.S. ;)

Glad to hear your problems are not diving related and under control.

[svs]

Gout sounds as a possible explanation. Usually uric acid starts to precipitate when it reaches level of 8mg/dL or higher in blood. Sometimes it is much higher but w/o any symptoms because it can stay as oversaturated solution in bloodstream. But because solubility is temperature dependent any drop in body temperature (e.g. diving) may induce massive precipitation. Hydration of course is another factor.

[DiverBizz]

Case Closed? gout? Well, at least you can still dive.

[KCIREVAM]

If it's gout then cherry's or cherry juice could help. FYI it works.!!!!!!!!

[Missdirected]

Both Dan and my Dr. ruled out any possibility that this was related to my diving in my pool.
The Doctor still isn't sure what caused this yet but I am leaning toward an intense case of gout. He agreed that this was a possibility.
Prior to this problem I was on a high protein diet, (trying to lose some weight) I lost about 30 lbs. However this high level of Protein in my blood caused an excess of uric acid in my blood. The acid settled in my joints and soft tissue and formed needle-like crystals. This caused the terrible pain & swelling.

I did a lot of research on the internet and drastically changed my diet, cutting out almost all protein, (untilo this is over) the symptoms are almost gone now, no thanks to my HMO.
He made me wait a whole week in agony before he finally referred me to a rhumatologist. He could have done that the same day the first time I saw him. There was only 1 Rhumatologist on out HMO plan and they said they couldn't see me until the end of October. It was like pulling teeth to get the HMO to approve a different Rhumatologist that could see me the next day.

Also too, he told me that it would take a week for the blood tests to come back but the receptionist told me that the test were back the next day. I am changing to a PPO as soon as possible,

I was very dehydrated before, so now I am drinking a lot more water & a lot less Jack & Coke.


Wow. Glad you buckled down and got yourself seen and taken care of. Very glad to hear that you are on the mend. :)

[harleyxx]

Thanks. Were going to try again at Blue springs next weekend, I hope the visibility is good. Then maybe try Blue Grotto in Williston. My daughter is dying to try out her new regulator.

[harleyxx]

If it's gout then cherry's or cherry juice could help. FYI it works.!!!!!!!!

I'm eating about 1 cup of cherries in the morning. I'm going to try that and see if it works before I start the meds the Doc prescribed.

Its s good thing I have an office job. I run a drafting department. All I had to do was answer emails and tell my drafters what to do. I would have been up a creek if I worked out in the shop. We dont have any sick days here at work. If you call in sick you lose a vacation day. Not worth staying home.

[stevewirl]

glad to see that al is well . we all knew it was highly unlikely as the depth and times mixed with nitrox would all point against .

but always safe than sorry .

[harleyxx]

I really didn't think so either, but I figured that it couldn't hurt to ask. I havent been diving long enough to know it all. I've read so many wierd experiences here on this forum that I had never imagined could happen. ( jellyfish in your wetsuit...getting snagged by someone fishing.....finding a skeleton in a wetsuit....ect)
I guess it was just a coincident that it happened the very next day after my little pool session.
My wife is not a diver and I still can't convince her that the two are not related. She is ready to sell all my gear on Ebay!!!!

It was surprising to me that there were several responses that said that it was possible to get bent in a pool.

[JeffG]

It was surprising to me that there were several responses that said that it was possible to get bent in a pool.
I don't think it is that surprising.

[Firedive]

A friend of mine had the exact same symptoms, which turned out to be a type of acute arthritis that is generally isolated to one episode, and not a permanent condition. Don't know exactly what it was called, but it sounded just like what you harleyxx had. It passed in about a week.