Why the big deal about doubles?

I have been a certified cavern diver for over a year, and have logged lots of dives in FL cave country. In preparation for my Intro class, I purchased doubles, practiced diving with them in open water, got comfortable, and started doing some cavern dives to make sure that bouyancy, trim, etc etc etc were all going to be cool while running a reel/task loading before starting intro class which i will be doing on jan 11th.

I heard the rumor that doubles were not welcome at most places unless full cave certified/sometimes apprentice, but had not had any problems (like most other divers) until the last dive, at a fla state park, when on our last day of diving while chatting with the ranger, we were up front and honest about the fact that we were not full cave and that we were trying to get all of our ducks in a row before moving along with our training. we did not want to do intro with singles as it seems quite silly, and we did not want to waste precious class time trying to get proficient in swimming with them. we were told that going forward, without an apprentice card, we would not be allowed to dive doubles in our very favorite springs.

So im taking intro on jan 11th, but once i get my intro card, i still will not be able to increase my diving efficiency in the gear i will ultimately be using. what good does an intro card do me? I am either going to be forced to ask an instructor to give me a temporary apprentice card, which may or may not allow me to get in some good dives in my 'real' cave gear depending on time frame and allowances in my schedule, or i will have to go take intro immediately (which id rather not do due to dive experience lost between intro/apprent), also given allowances in finances and schedule, or i will have to rent singles with Hs or buy some which is completely pointless and unnecessary given the fact that i have the right/safe gear to do an intro level dive, and am comfortable and proficient in said gear.

someone please explain this to me without the reliable 'going just a little further' answer. People can be just as drowned in singles by pushing limits as they can in doubles. I'm really not getting the logic on this one.

Personally, I agree with you. In fact, I would say that, remaining within the limits of your training, you are actually more safe in doubles than in a single. As to why this rule is starting to present itself, I do not know.

Good luck

I also agree with you. I don't even own singles and see very little reason to.

Tom

no logic to it.

Other than trying to force you to buy another set of tanks/valves.

Frankly, its one of the things that I have not been able to reconcile about cave training, and until I can, its a path I will not take.

Agencies and dive orgs (whether a park or a shop) that insist that I be LESS safe when doing a particular type of diving piss me off. A lot.

izajane once bubbled...
at a fla state park, when on our last day of diving while chatting with the ranger, we were up front and honest about the fact that we were not full cave and that we were trying to get all of our ducks in a row before moving along with our training. we did not want to do intro with singles as it seems quite silly, and we did not want to waste precious class time trying to get proficient in swimming with them. we were told that going forward, without an apprentice card, we would not be allowed to dive doubles in our very favorite springs.

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Please don't blame the ranger and give her a bad time; she's only doing her job. This is the product of some officious cave instructors who have the ear of someone higher up. Talk to your instructor now and ask if you can do the class in doubles and get a Discretionary Apprentice card. This allows you to dive to Intro limits in doubles. An alternative is to do GUE Cave 1, which will also allow you to dive in doubles.

I too think that this is ridiculous, but it is not going to change in the next 2 weeks. Screw the marketing aspect of doing Intro with a single tank; teach cave divers to dive in real cave gear. This won't change until we get BOD's who have a clue instead of people who are trying to protect fiefdoms.

well, I'm glad I'm not completely insane at least! I just read a little story where some cave diving students were refused access if wearing doubles even though they had a temp card from their instructor to do just that.

this is starting to look like some places will not allow doubles unless full cave cert is shown, period. anyone know where we will be able to dive our doubles now (we want to go diving this weekend and put in some more practice/drill time- preferably not at royal as it is generally a huge mess after the open waters get a hold of it) and after intro so that we can actually log our intro dives and gain the necessary skill/comfort/learning curve/etc before moving on to apprentice, then full?

I am getting the impression that this rule is being invented by spring owners. Does anyone know if the problem is being addressed by any of the certification agencies or is it not something they can do anything about? Also, what if divers in the general SE vicinity were learning their doubles for something besides cave diving and wanted use of a close by spring to do so, even though they had no intention of going even into the cavern zone? I feel like a kindergartener...

Bottomfeeder once bubbled...


Please don't blame the ranger and give her a bad time; she's only doing her job.

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I know its not the ranger's fault. Would never give the employees a hard time, dont worry.

It's the agencies. Go to the sites and read their standards, its spelled out there. The rangers are just following the agency's lead.

Dive the ocean, no restrictions

Tom

those agencies, that is...

WreckWriter once bubbled...
It's the agencies. Go to the sites and read their standards, its spelled out there. The rangers are just following the agency's lead.

Dive the ocean, no restrictions

Tom

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Yep, I've seen it, which is even more reason why none of this makes much sense to me. I kind of thought it was standard practice to go through intro using doubles. Of all the instructors we talked to trying to find the right one, none of them ever balked at letting us use doubles, it was presented by most as if we didn't have our own by then, they would lend us some for the class. I just really don't want to be forced to speed through all the certifications in order to start doing intro level dives safely, and as I see it, with the correct gear. In fact, I don't know that we will even need or want to go beyond apprentice as far as limits go, and if we do, it will be quite some time before we're ready and willing.

Thanks for the responses guys. I hope this changes for the future generations of wannabe cave divers. It's very frustrating.