Need Dive Gear Help - New 2 Diving

[yoda4x4]

I've recently gone to my LDS and here's what they recommended I get:

Scubapro MK25/S600
Suunto Cobra
Seaquest Raider

What do you think about these products? Positives and negative opinions are welcome as I don't know what's better than what.

Thanks,
David
=-)

[BlueWaterDiving]

It really depends on your diving. What kindof diving are you going to do? From what I see you can't go wrong with the scubapro reg. or the cobra computor. The Raider is a bit much if you are going with the seaquest I would go with a black diamond. I have one a love it. It is my spearfishing BC. This is my 2-cents.

[MechDiver]

Scubapro and Suunto are both excellent. As far as the Raider, if it fits your style of diving, use it. There are better alternatives IMO

PHil

[WJL]

Even though your enthusiasm is high when you first get going, don't rush out and buy a bunch of gear without doing a little research first. Lot's of people soon become unhappy with the first gear they purchased.

Before you buy anything, spend some time reading lots of the threads on this board. I was glad I did when I started dive training a year ago. Everybody has opinions, but at least you'll get something more than the one recommendation of your LDS, who don't carry every line and may not know all there is to consider. For my own part, I learned that such a thing as DIR gear configuration standards existed, which had a big impact both on my training and equipment choices.

[reefraff]

Scubapro MK25/S600
Great regulator, if pricy. It's one of the best performing regulators available and, if properly maintained, will last a lifetime. Close to my first choice, especially if price is not a concern.

Suunto Cobra
Great computer, although maybe overkill - I think air integration is a potentially dangerous solution looking for a problem. It's one of the most popular computers available and comes from a company reknowned for innovation and reliability. Handles nitrox and provides all the information you'll need for any level of recreational diving. The only downside to this is that divers tend to become dependent upon the device and lose/never learn the ability to cope if it fails or if they encounter a situation outside its limits. You won't let that happen, though, will you?

Seaquest Raider
The Sea Quest line is highly respected and the Raider is one of their top-of-the-line pseudo-tec BCD's. It's definitely more jacket than you'll ever need for recreational diving, but it won't kill you, either. I'd take a look at the ScubaPro or Zeagle pseudo-tec BCD's before I committed.

When you consider how ugly most scuba gear is, you wouldn't think that fashion was much of a consideration in the sport. You'd be very wrong, however. So many divers are more concerned with having the latest/most expensive/most popular/most technical gear, sometimes you'd think they were picking out something to wear to the prom. Be careful of the "I have a XXX and I love it." recommendations so common on the board - some writers willl have too much ego wrapped up in validating their own selections to be objective or knowledgable.

The two most important concepts to remember when selecting gear are borrowed from architecture:

[list=1]
Function before form. This is life support gear. Pretty is a pretty poor excuse for a reason to select a piece of gear.
Less is more.Everything you drag into the water with you is heavy, expensive, will break and makes the dive more complex. If you don't need it, don't take it with you.
[/list=1]

Welcome to the rest of the world.

Steven

[roturner]

yoda4x4 once bubbled...
I've recently gone to my LDS and here's what they recommended I get:

Scubapro MK25/S600
Suunto Cobra
Seaquest Raider

What do you think about these products? Positives and negative opinions are welcome as I don't know what's better than what.

Thanks,
David
=-)


The reg is one of the best on the market these days. The Aqualung Legend LX (supreme) is (for more or less the same money) as good or better and easier to maintain if you do these things yourself.

The computer is AI--a nice to have that comes with a hefty price tag--and console mounted, which is a strike against if you ask me. You might consider a cheaper computer with the same functionality. Have you looked at the Vyper?

I personally like Seaquest BCD's but YYMV. Try it out first.

R..

[Tekkie]

Just like what BlueWaterDiving said,

Your gear configuration depends on what type of diving you will be doing.

Regulator- Scuabpro and Apeks are both great brands of regulators. I personaly choose the Mk25/G250HP setup because I didn't want to spend the extra $50.00 for a smaller second stage. (I'm pretty sure that the S600 and the G250HP have same internal parts, the G250 is just a little bigger.) (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

Computer- Personaly I've only read good things about the Suunto Cobra. It's an all around great computer. Now if later on you want to get into technical diving I would go with the Suunto Viper because it is cheeper, not air intergrated (If your batteries run out with the Cobra you don't know how much air you have left.), it's wrist mounted and you can use it in gauage mode (I'm pretty sure the Cobra has gauage mode too). There is quite a big coast differance though between the Cobra and the Viper.
Cobra is around $500.00 and the Viper is around $300.00. If your not going to be getting into technical diving by all means get the Cobra, but if you do want to later on go into technical diving I would re-think your purchase.

If you want to go into technical diving I would get a Backplate and Harness setup. You can also use them in recreational diving too. The Backplate and Harness setup consist of a Weebing Harness attached to a Steel or Aluminum Backplate attached to buoyancy wings. If you don't like the BC squeezing you and you want to go into technical diving get one of these. Also remember that you really want to buy the highest quality BC you can afford because a BC is one of your main pieces of gear and it will be with you for a long time.

Choose wisely.

Tekkie :bonk:

[yknot]

yoda- cynic that I am I have to ask- how did you find a LDS that sells both Aqualung and Scubapro? Before you feel any gratitude towards your LDS for their suggestions- while their recommendations are all good stuff- it is also near the top end for the product lines you mentioned.

And just FYI, online: MK25/S600=$325 (didn't check octo)
Raider=$500 Cobra=$400,$450 w/compass.

Apparently the Seaquest line of BC's is one that Aqualung doesn't discount much- they are expensive everywhere.

[PnL]

I have to agree with WJL. Rent some equipment and try out the different configurations before you spend so much money. If you ask which regulator is best (and there are many such posts!) you'll find a number of them that perform very well, backed up by personal experiences of the poster ... i.e., there is some subjectivity involved and is not purely a mechanical performance issue. Same with most of the gear. Try them and see which ones suit you best.

[yoda4x4]

To answer your questions:

I would like to get into tech diving eventually. However, being a realistic person, I know that's not in the near future. The LDS recommended the Raider because it's a hybrid rec and tech BC. Plus, I can eventually use it to attach a backplate and twin tanks. Is there another BC that's a good hybrid? As for the Scubapro reg, they simply stated that it's one of the best regs on the market and is capable of being a reg for tech diving. As for the Cobra, I've been told from the LDS that it is a tech capable computer. Plus, since I wear a watch on my left hand, I'm not a big fan of having a wrist mounted computer on my right. This may be something to reconsider. Can you recommend another computer capable of tech diving but not wrist mounted?

Thank you all for your input. If I haven't answered one of your questions, please let me know and I'll provide any info I can.

David

[yknot]

I believe than most any computer module can be mounted in a console boot whether it is air integrated or not. If you avoid AI you will need SPG anyway and will therefore have a console hanging. Only way to avoid that would be a unit such as Suunto Vytec, which is AI and runs with a remote transmitter. You could always clip the unit off onto you BC if you don't want to wrist mount.

[GeekDiver]

Yoda,

I have the Cobra. It's great, I love it and it's nice to be able to have it figure out you SAC rate. Since your new to diving air mgt will be something your going to have to learn and the Cobra will give you real time info based on how much your breathing and at what depth as to how much air you have left in both PSI and min. I think this is a good tool as for learning and helps me to be better aware.

I also have a Viper, same as the cobra but not AI and you can get it in wrist mt or consul but you'll have to have an SPG and learn quicker about air mgt. If your budget will allow I'd get the Cobra but nothing wrong with the Viper and costs less.

As a 3erd option replace your watch with a stinger it will serve as your watch out of water and will have the same features as the Viper. The drawback is that they cost and have a smaller screen so a bit harder to read.

Once I got my Cobra I haven't used my viper since. When I get back I hook it up to my computer d/l the profile and fill out the all the blanks just like my paper dive log. Then I can go back and update my log with all the nice stuff like SAC also you get a graph of your dive which can be a real eye opener as to how flat a profile you actualy dive (read bouyancy)

PS for a watch I have a Citizen Hyperaquland while not a computer is realy nice and makes a great backup as a bottom timer. As far as the raider I posted a response to your question in the BC forum since I have and dive one.

Good luck with your choices

Geek.

Geek

[cstreu1026]

I have both the Raider and the Mk25/S600. Both are great. And when you comapre apple to apples the scuba pro reg isn't all that pricy. With scuba pro's new pricing they seem to be a real bargin when compared to the offerings from Atomic, Aqua Lung, and the retail prices of Apeks. Truthfully, when I tried an apeks I didn't really care for the way it breathed. If you would like to save some money you should look at the Atomic Z1. In my opinion it breaths nearly as well as the Scuba Pro. I also considered the Aqua Lung Titan, which breathed very well for the price, but I like the adjustability of my S600 or the Z1.

I too posted a reply to your inquiry in the bc section, but the to recap the Raider is a nice piece and very cushy and comfortable. However it is a litle bulky and will prove difficult to pack on my honeymoon in Bonaire this coming summer.

As far as the computer goes, I chose not to go the AI route. I looked at the Aeris Atmos 2, Suunto Vyper, and the Uwatec Smart Pro all in a wrist mount configuration. I bought the Uwatec as it seemed to offer the most advancements in technology and it is very easy to read.

Just my two cents.

[ElectricZombie]

The Mk25/S600 is an outstanding reg, probably the best one out there. I dive one and think its great. The R380 would make a good backup reg.

BC: I am biased a bit but, check out a Backplate (BP) and Wing before you make a final decision. Do a search here for more info. (Search for "BP", "DIR" or "Backplate")

Computer: Wait. I don't recommend computers to people new to SCUBA. Learn the dive tables forwards and backwards, then think about a computer.

[PnL]

I know this is off-topic, but may I ask why you recommend waiting? My wife and I got certified through SDI and although we learned the tables we also learned how to use the computer for diving since it is becoming so prevalent. This is only for recreational (NDL) diving. We haven't really gone over the tables since we've been certified and have always assumed the dive computer as an integral part of our dive gear. I'm curious as to what we are missing and whether SDI's decision to teach computers over tables is a poor one.

TIA
Paul

[ElectricZombie]

I recommend waiting for a lot of reasons. If someone is new to SCUBA, they really need to practice the dive tables after the completion of class. The tables let you see what is really going on based on your particular time and profile. When people use tables, they seem to be better in terms of planning their dive and diving their plan. This way they get good dive planning habits and are more likely to stick to them later. Computers dumb things down a bit. They take the thought out of the whole process. New divers do not nead this at all.

New divers are usually not comfortable with even their basic gear. Dive computers are either not used properly or ignored. "What's that beeping?" they ask...it's them...they're clueless on how the computer works. What if the computer breaks down? Give them a table and they are clueless. I've seen Instructors who have not used a table in a while who look just as confused as the students. Money is a big factor too. The student has probably just spent a fortune on other gear, now he thinks that an expensive dive computer is necessary. A dive computer is a luxury, not a necessity. I think a lot of agencies are going to computers as a way to dumb things down and help increase revenue for shops.

Computers are fine to use after you have completed numerous dives planned with the tables. By then you have probably developed good dive planning skills. A computer to someone new does not help them develop proper dive planning skills. One of my students insisted on getting a computer. I had him plan the dives with a table, and just use the computer as a bottom timer. Once he gets really proficient with dive planning using a table and sticking to the plan (proper depth, proper time), using a computer is no problem. People get in trouble because of the freedom a computer allows or their lack of understanding on how the computer works.

[norcaldiver]

yoda4x4 once bubbled...
I would like to get into tech diving eventually. However, being a realistic person, I know that's not in the near future. The LDS recommended the Raider because it's a hybrid rec and tech BC. Plus, I can eventually use it to attach a backplate and twin tanks.


Zoinks. Go backplate then, you can prolly pick up a Halcyon rig for less that a Raider. Or mabye a Zeagle ranger. The Ranger LTD is a fine BC. I've sen the Raider and tried one. All I can say is no,no,no,no,no I hated it. Can the bladder BE bigger?



As for the Scubapro reg, they simply stated that it's one of the best regs on the market and is capable of being a reg for tech diving.
SP "is" good gear, but there's gear out ther that equal but costs less. Mares Ruby, Zeagle Flathead VI, Atomic, Apex ATX200



As for the Cobra, I've been told from the LDS that it is a tech capable computer. Plus, since I wear a watch on my left hand, I'm not a big fan of having a wrist mounted computer on my right. This may be something to reconsider. Can you recommend another computer capable of tech diving but not wrist mounted?


I have a Cobra and a mosquito, and they aren't tech computers. They are way to conservative. The Vytec is closer only because of the 3 mixes you can program into it, but wrist mount (you can put it on a retracter though) and just as conservative, although they all go into guage mode.

[resqdivers]

I don't want to answer for electric Zombie, but for my two cents worth I will have to agree with him...Too many times have I witnessed a diver (newbie and veteran alike) have a 'puter crap out on them. Sometimes this happens before the dive, between dives, or after. The basic knowledge that should have been taught VERY thoughly in any class (doesn't matter which agency) should be tables. Yes a computer does all the math for you, yes I dive a 'puter, but I still double check everything with tables.
Know, sometimes I have the tendacy of being a little preachy , especially when it comes to agencies or instructors trying to convince thier students that diving is completely safe...this couldn't be further from the truth. Being under water is the ultimate in IDLH atmospheres (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health), you run out of gas, you are gonna be breathing water, making an emergency accent, sharing air, etc... this isn't the best of things to happen. We can learn to dive safer/safely, but you can't eliminate the hazards associated with it.
Just because you aren't a "tekkie" doesn't mean that you shouldn't be knowledgeable in tables.
I hope I am not coming off stern with this post, that isn't my intent, just throwing in my two cents in from things I have learned...alot the hard way.

Anyways, dive safe, learn your tables forward and backwards for this will just make you a more knowledgable diver in the end.

Thanks for listening, hope it didn't sound like a rant.

Chuck