Why don't I see more Cochran Computers?

One of our favorite dive shops is co-owned by a Cochran sales rep. and of course he's always telling us how great the Cochrans are. I admit they sound good and the software looks cool but I have no desire to switch.

Beast and I did start wondering why we haven't seen more Cochran computers in use. Out of the hundreds of divers we know and have come across in our travels, from other countries as well as nationwide, we can only think of 3 who had them.'

So why is this? Are they just no good? Hard to use?

I don't want to start any wars, just curious!

Dee once bubbled...
wondering why we haven't seen more Cochran computers in use.

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I'm not sure but seems I remember years ago they ended up with a bad reputation... perhaps too close to the cutting edge... and perhaps they have not gotten past that. I believe they were the first with hoseless wristmount air integrated. There is much stiffer competition now too.

plus..


They rot your brain.

I will probably get flamed for this but here it goes.


the one thing that many cochrans arent seen as much is that not very many of them are sold, because they are basically tailor made now(especially the new generation gemini) you can change everything down to the backlite in the wrist unit.

for the skeptics. how many dive computers you know of that have the capability to have 3 breathing gas mixes and 2 rebreather mixes programmed into one unit for diving? also the abilty if the tank unit fails to have the wrist unit take over with calulations (depth, temp, ascent, deco obligation(if needed), etc) to safely end the dive?

as for programmibilty it is relivitly easy if you read the manuel, plus with the analyst yoou can can any nad all of the paramiters including setting up the computer so that when you download the profiles send them to DAN for the study they are doing on divers. for me the only problem i run into is weather to use a finger or a metal object to change the option( thats pretty smart if you have a device that can tell the difference in resistance between a finger and a metal quater to change a menu paramiter)

also there are technologies in the cochran units that no other computers have (ie the wireless connection between the tank and wrist units cant be interupted by a strobe, sonar, etc, and also the touch contacts of the computer that can tell the difference in resistance between a finger and a quarter). this is good in a way because they can closely monitor each computer for specs before it leaves the shop. this is good because i would rather have a company produce thousands of computers and and a great deal come back, then have to wait a few weeks to a have a computer that operates normally


i think the one reason that alot of people flame cochran because the have small ... complex and are giving a opinon on something they no nothing about. plus those who bash cochran because of a bad experince must not be to inteligent because in any electrical components has a fatality rate wether its new or been around for years.


also for those who still dont believe me, then cochrans must really suck if the US military is using them for there dive teams (IE the SEALS, US Navy Expermental Dive Unit, etc)
also everyone on this planet who has a device with a microchip in it owe mr mike cochran for making there life much easier because if not you wouldnt have about 90% of the devices that are on the market currently (past presents, and future)


BTW computers dont rot the brain it comes from people not learning the tables correctly. I still use my tablesfor computing pressure groups after a dive, and follw the reccommedations of the tables evne if the computer says i can go back in. (BTW i use a gemini and have had no problems at all, the only problems can from human error on my part , ie for got to active it before entering the water). also if my computer does need a repair all i have to do is drive down to cochran and hand it to larry or mike and explain what happened and they will fix it and even give me a loaner till they get it fixed (at no charge), now talk about service.


Also support your LDS as much as possible because once there gone were areyou going to get your air fills at ???????

Dee when i come down to houston i will bring mine with me to show you. (so that make 4 , and if my dad comes thats 5)

Food for Thought

Ok, what exactly has Mike Cochran done to warrant the following statement?

I'm horribly curious. I'm also a computer nut, and a google search for "Mike Cochran" & microchip and "Mike Cochran" & processor turned up diddly.

Are you referring solely to dive technology or what? I hate remaining ignorant about something that affects my electronics....

Scubatooth once bubbled...

also for those who still dont believe me, then cochrans must really suck if the US military is using them for there dive teams (IE the SEALS, US Navy Expermental Dive Unit, etc)
also everyone on this planet who has a device with a microchip in it owe mr mike cochran for making there life much easier because if not you wouldnt have about 90% of the devices that are on the market currently (past presents, and future)

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Scubatooth....You sound so very defensive! I don't need to literally 'see' your computer. But even adding you and your father to the total, you still have to admit 5 out of 100's of divers is very low.

The claims you are making is the same thing the sales rep says, even alot of the same phrasing! I'm not questioning the quality of Cochran computers. Just wondering why, if they are so great, not more divers are using them.

The following was taken from http://www.bikiniatoll.com/

Cochran Computers and Bikini Atoll



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NOTE [4/1/01]: We are very happy to report that if you have the NEW version of the software that Cochran puts in their dive computers they will work just fine on Bikini. Two weeks ago we had a group from the U.K. that had computers with both the new and old versions of the Cochran software. The old version failed like clockwork, the newer version, however, went through the entire week without a problem. Please consult your Cochran dealer to find out which version of the software your computer has.

NOTE [6/11/01]: Disregard all of the above. We have had some recent experiences with the new Cochran computers that actually had people wanting to get out of the water 10-20 minutes before their Deco time was up! This is according to our divemaster's Nitek3 computers that account for off-gassing at an accelerated rate for the 75% mix of oxygen. Quote from our divemaster : "The new Cochran computer is simply scary."

**Please understand that of you don't believe this and you show up with a Cochran computer--and it fails--you will have to rent a computer from us for the rest of the week for $65.00.




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A lot of divers have asked us about the fact that we do not recommend the Cochran Commander and Nemesis computers on our web site. This advice is posted because of our extensive experience with customers who have brought those models to Bikini--and the computers' subsequent failure to perform during a week of diving. If you check our website you will find an example of our diving profiles for the week and realize that we are not pushing any technical diving limits. We often decompress for longer than the tables or computers require and after four years our operation has never had to send anyone to a recompression chamber, which is a remarkable safety record for any dive program.

The problems encountered with the Cochran Commander and Nemesis computers are as follows:

1) The Nemesis II alpha has failed 100% of the time it has been brought to Bikini. The first time we saw one it was brought by our friend and instructor Kevin Denlay, who came in 1996 to teach us Technical Nitrox courses. His unit failed on the 3rd day. He was pretty upset. The unit simply locked up and would not allow him to dive--unless he removed the batteries. This procedure is not recommended for some very obvious reasons, not the least of which is that it is simply an unsafe practice. All other Nemesis units brought to Bikini presented the exact same problem. Cochran's response to these customers implied that our diving profiles are unsafe and that our customers were not competent enough to properly use their product. We do not think it a safe nor a fair policy to blame computer failure on the diver. Click here to check their response to the "Bikini Atoll" question on the Cochran website. Their statements on this site are, to say the least, misleading.

2) The Commander Nitrox had a little better luck: Nearly 80% of the units brought failed to survive the entire week without showing some very apparent problems. One thing struck us as very odd: while some customers were wearing two Commander Nitrox units for redundancy--and programming those units with the very same information--they would invariably have one of the units fail on them.

One particular episode that really annoyed our dive team on Bikini was when we had a diver hanging at the 30 foot decompression stop after all his other fellow divers were clear on their computers and were already hanging at 20 feet. I decided to go down and check his profile and found that although he had dove the same profile as everyone else ( depth + time ) his Commander still had a decompression obligation of 9 hours! Perhaps some people might think that we don't know that these machines will credit the use of oxygen enriched mixtures for deco by accelerating the clock. By this I mean that the minutes of decompression left will go faster than a real clock, thus giving you less time in the water. That was *not the case* as after 30 minutes at 30 feet he still had 6 hours to go! This information is incorect to start with. You can run tables with any algorithms on our profiles and see that a 9 hour decompression obligation is never required. And this has happened more than once and with different users. Nobody had more than 6 minutes of decompression time at the 30 feet stop on that dive and the average total deco for the dive was 45 minutes. I had to ask that diver to finish his decompression obligation on tables.

If your computer does not work on Bikini, it will then have to be used in depth gauge mode. Therefore, you might as well bring digital depth gauges instead, after all they are a lot cheaper.

Cochran has a new model out and I hope these kinds of problems do not develop. So far we have no experience with the Cochran Genesis, their newest model. I will gladly recommend their product once it passes our tests, and that means real life tests with customers doing all the dives for the week without computer failure.

I also want to state here that we at Bikini hold nothing against Cochran as a company. We will recommend any of their products that pass our tests. We make the pledge that our website will be updated as soon as this happens. I also want to remind you that Cochran is not the only brand that presented problems for divers on Bikini. Again, here is our "not recommended" list:

Cochran Nemesis and Commander computers
All Oceanic computers
Source computers
U.S. Divers Matrix computers
Scuba Pro DC 12 computers
"Edge" from Orca
"B'Air" from Dive-Rite

If you own a dive computer ( any brand ) and have encountered some of the problems described above, please e-mail us and tell us of your experience. Maybe we can start a forum for keeping track of these problems, and who knows, perhaps we can help the industry on future developments in the realm of technical diving computers.

Have fun diving and I hope to see you on Bikini Atoll in the near future.

Oh yah one more thing. I have a family member in the Navy and he stated that they hate the Cochran's. He said that the failure rate of the Cochran was extremely high and that the Navy was looking into replacing it.

sorry if i came off a little brash.

as for mike cochran and the microchip, he was the person who invented and has the patent for the microchip and the process of making then. thats were the debt we all owe him for his idea that turned into a reality.

as for the bikini atoll article, im not going to argue it but you think it might have something to do with the amount of raditation that was put into the air and water inthat area?

as for the navy computer, the supposed failure rates i have heard of comes from some one messing with the unit when they werent supposed to. also since the navy consistantly changes its requirements and whats the new design asap, of course there are going to be problems but thats due to rushing caused by the government before proper testing could be done.

Arduous ? what does your relative do in the navy ?

Er, I doubt it. Patent # 3,934,229 is the first one he possesses, and it presumes the existance of the LSI chips.

Do an advanced patent search on "in/michael-cochran-$" if, perchance, you don't believe me.

I believe the confusion is that Cochran co-invented the first one-chip microcomputer, the TMS1000 (1972).

The lesson, of course, is that there are lies, damned lies, and press releases.

jeff

Scubatooth once bubbled...
as for mike cochran and the microchip, he was the person who invented and has the patent for the microchip and the process of making then. thats were the debt we all owe him for his idea that turned into a reality.

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