Weezle Extreme vs. 400G Thinsulate?

[metridium]

Is there any consensus in the technical community on which of these is preferred?

I've read here others' concerns about the Weezle requiring too much gas for loft compared with the Thinsulate, and that it may have been implicated in the death of a PNW diver.

OTOH, almost all of the few tech divers I've met use the Weezle (Extreme or otherwise), and recommend it.

Any thoughts?

[madmole]

As a user of both a weezle and thinsulates, I'd rate the weezle extreme at about 150 gram thinsulate. Its not as warm as a 400 and does need air to work (which is fine for me as I use my drysuit for buoyancy).

The weezle is lighter and more comfortable than the thinsulates (especially apres dive), easier to dry and packs small. Only draw back in a membrane is that the weezle wicks so well you get more condensation against the suit than the thinsulate (they absorb a certain amounty)

When its cold I wear a Xerotherm set under the weezle and thats a great combination

[salty]

From the reaserch I have done that basicly is asking around I have found that the DUI thinslate (The expensive stuff) Is perfered for certin reasons. When that type (thinslate type B) is wet it will still retain most of its insulating properties especialy when used with argon. The weezle dosent do as good when wet and un-like the thinslate is not desighned to work when compressed.

[MechDiver]

salty once bubbled...
From the reaserch I have done that basicly is asking around I have found that the DUI thinslate (The expensive stuff) Is perfered for certin reasons. When that type (thinslate type B) is wet it will still retain most of its insulating properties especialy when used with argon. The weezle dosent do as good when wet and un-like the thinslate is not desighned to work when compressed.

I have both and prefer the Weezle. I use very little gas (usually argon) in my suit so there is always somewhat of a squeeze and the Weezle does fine. It will also keep you warm when saturated. We won't get into how I know that...

Phil

[MechDiver]

metridium once bubbled...
Is there any consensus in the technical community on which of these is preferred?

I've read here others' concerns about the Weezle requiring too much gas for loft compared with the Thinsulate, and that it may have been implicated in the death of a PNW diver.

OTOH, almost all of the few tech divers I've met use the Weezle (Extreme or otherwise), and recommend it.

Any thoughts?

The report of implication in his death is totally supposition, and bs by people who don't like the Weezle.

Phil

[madmole]

ANY undersuit with a windproof shell on it can block a dump valve. Weezle or thinsulate is irrelevent and a red herring

I've had it happen once about 15 years ago on a thinsulate suit. I made some small holes in the shell on my arm. Most valves nowadays have a dispersion base to prevent this

Fortunately I learnt to dry dive in the days of wrist seal dumping so had no problems controlling the ascent

[wb416]

MechDiver once bubbled...


I have both and prefer the Weezle. I use very little gas (usually argon) in my suit so there is always somewhat of a squeeze and the Weezle does fine. It will also keep you warm when saturated. We won't get into how I know that...

Phil

I have the Weezle Extreme Plus, and learned from experience that 40°F water INSIDE the suit is cold no matter what you're wearing...

If you want to read about my drysuit misadventure.....
http://www.bayareadivers.net/wb416/reports/DontDiveDrysuitLikeThis.htm

When the water gets sub-45°F, I've found I like to wear very thin polypro long johns and shirt under the Weezle. Sometimes even a wool shirt with cut-off sleeves. (I seem to get cold easier since I dropped some body weight.)

wb

[MechDiver]

cwb once bubbled...

When the water gets sub-45°F, I've found I like to wear very thin polypro long johns and shirt under the Weezle. Sometimes even a wool shirt with cut-off sleeves. (I seem to get cold easier since I dropped some body weight.)

wb

I'll do the same under 40 degrees, and use just a polartek long underwear shirt. I also use argon though most of the time.

And you're right, coldwater is coldwater ;-0

Phil

[icediver]

Well I thought I would add my two Cents. I just got the extreme plus and dove with them once. Can you say awesome. 125 minutes in 37 degree water. My only complaint would be that they don't make their booties out of the same material. Cold feet!

Terry

[Bob3]

I've sold 400gm Arctic Thinsulate (Viking) to guys in Alaska & they complain about it being too warm.
Thinsulate retains about 90% of its insulative properties when wet.
May not be quite as flexible at the Weezel.

[metridium]

Bob3 wrote...
I've sold 400gm Arctic Thinsulate (Viking) to guys in Alaska & they complain about it being too warm.
That's what I'd heard about 400G, so that's why first I went with the 200G and varying layers of polypro. That approach served me well for rec until I started 1:00+ exposures at 42-45F.

Instead of rushing into a new undersuit, I think I'll see how the addition of DC drygloves and 400G booties changes the equation first.

[MissYoungDiver]

Hi, I just purchased a dry suit and am in the process of looking for undergarments. I tried on a weezle compact which felt comfortable, yet only diving it will tell. Of, course I am more interested in finding (gently used) a Weezle Extreme Plus or a 400g Artic Thinsulate equivalent. The feet are important though, and I would want the same thermal protection there as on the rest of the suit.

Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but what is PNW? And how could an undergarment be a contributing factor to a diving accident? Thanks for your helpful responses and feedback.
:popcorn:

[Jim Lapenta]

PNW= Pacific Northwest. Too tight of an undergarment could restrict movement. Too big and it may bunch up in the wrong places and again restrict movement or allow air to be trapped in places where it may not be easy top get rid of. Too much air could cause an uncontrolled ascent. These are just off the top of mt head. Given more time I could probavly think of some other things in the increased task loading vein.

[rjack321]

Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but what is PNW? And how could an undergarment be a contributing factor to a diving accident? Thanks for your helpful responses and feedback.

The weezle has a very thin, windproof, nylon outer shell which is not quilted down to the remainder of the suit. The rumor was that this windproof outer material clogged the shoulder dump valve and led to an uncontrolled ascent with 1+ hr deco obligation remaining. This was a solo rebreather dive.

The instructor/diver died. Happened about 3 years ago.

I have not seen the dump valve in question, nor the suit. But this is the story. Oh and I heard its from a friend of the deceased who had also used a weezle up to that point. So never considered it a premeditated anti-weezle story, YMMV

[omar]

I had the weezle extreme plus and sold it on ebay after the suit sat in my closet for a couple of years unused. I sold it because it did not keep me as warm as a 300g thinsulate garment I have and it was horrible if it got wet. I have had 3 floods, two with the weezle and one with the thinsulate. I found that the weezle needed significant loft to keep me warm and I do not dive with excessive air in the dry suit.

When I have long exposures I have been using an electric thinsulate vest with the 300g. In case of a flood the vest just quits working and it still retains the wonderful thinsulate properties. This is the best thing yet.

As far as the PNW diver - He was diving with his fiancé, not solo. In addition there was the issue of inadequate emergency response, both in water on the divers part and out of water at the dock and hospital.

[rjack321]

As far as the PNW diver - He was diving with his fiancé, not solo. In addition there was the issue of inadequate emergency response, both in water on the divers part and out of water at the dock and hospital.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same incident???

[omar]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same incident???

GW...

[cmalinowski]

I have a wzl x+. It is warm... there is no doubt about that. But I hate--hate--the way it traps air and slows my dump valve. That said, that is my problem and that may not apply to you. I am going with fleece (320gX2) and I love the quick dump and lack of a need to keep it so lofted.

That's me. I haven't dove 400g thinsulate, but I know people who do who like it a lot. I may keep the weezle because it is so darned comfortable outside of diving :)

Chris