Bull sharks at Chumphon Pinnacle

[Makhno]

Going around Koh Samui and Koh Tao dive centers is the news that the sharks at Chumphon Pinnacle, which most of us had thought were grey reef sharks, have been identified by a couple of shark experts as bull sharks.

See Bull Sharks of Chumphon Pinnacle (http://www.bigpinkshark.com/Bull%20Sharks%20of%20Chumphon.htm)

I, too, had thought that they were grey reef sharks, because the bull sharks I've dived with in the past didn't have the black colored tail fins, as grey reef sharks do, and as most of the sharks at Chumphon Pinnacle do. From what I've been reading in recent days, though, such dark fin markings are not uncommon on younger bull sharks, and can be seen on some fully adult individuals.

Chumphon Pinnacle is now one of only a few dive sites around the world where there is a very good likelihood of seeing bull sharks (the dive site Big Scare in the Bat Islands of Costa Rica is one, there's another somewhere in South Africa, and one or two in the Bahamas). Not to mention the chance of seeing whale sharks ...

[plonske]

So, Chumphon Pinnacle is a littlebit dangergous for diving, or insn't?
Or is it unique divesite now?

[Makhno]

Not, not dangerous -- I've never heard of a shark attack or other incident at this site, and people dive it every day, and have for years. Bull sharks have a reputation as being aggressive, but that reputation doesn't apply to scuba divers who are minding our own business (i.e., not spearfishing, chumming or otherwise feeding the fishes, etc.).

The site isn't unique, as I've dived a site in Costa Rica (the Big Scare, in the Bat Islands) which also has bull sharks almost every dive, and I know there's a site or two in the Bahamas featuring bull sharks, and one in South Africa too. So, not truly unique, but it is rare to have bull sharks at a specific dive sites so often (I've seen at least one of them there every single time I've dived Chumphon Pinnacle in the past 4 months ... before that it was 2 dives out of 3).

[drbill]

Interesting. I dove Chumphon Pinnacle back in 2001 and don't even remember seeing sharks. Maybe I sould check my dive log. I do remember there being whale sharks... and that I didn't see them because we were diving too deep. Sniff.

[Arizona]

I've been there twice and each time sighted sharks at about 30m. Quite the experience! Glad to hear they don't like divers. Aren't Bull Sharks common in Australia?

[docmartin]

strange that it took two "shark experts" to figure this out. don't want to brag but i could tell at the first glance of the dorsal fin that that ain't no reef shark but rather a bull. by the way, the place in south africa is called protea banks and the best site in the bahamas is walker's cay where you could snorkel with them right off the beach. unfortunately, since the resort has been destroyed by a hurricane it's kind of difficult to get there these days.

[Ringo]

As docmartin says the Bull Sharks are seen very regularly at Protea Banks in South Africa. They are commonly known there as the Zambezi Sharks.

[Makhno]

strange that it took two "shark experts" to figure this out. don't want to brag but i could tell at the first glance of the dorsal fin that that ain't no reef shark but rather a bull.

Yeah, a bit embarrassing ... I was led astray, and perhaps others were as well, by my fish ID book, "Reef Fish Identification -- Tropical Pacific" by Gerald Allen, Roger Steene, Paul Humann, and Ned DeLoach. The photos of grey reef and bull sharks in that (otherwise very good) book are taken from vantage points which don't show the differences in their dorsal fins very well, and the text emphasizes that grey reef sharks have a "broad black margin on the tail fin" (like the Chumphon Pinnacle sharks have), and "no markings on fins" for bull sharks - which is not always the case, evidently ...

[jamiemac]

we've all known for a long time, 15 years, that we have at least two different species of shark swimming together at Chumporn, not including the spotty species.

Until the 'experts' started calling us idiots for not knowing and diving with DANGEROUS juvenile BULL sharks we didn't really mind what they were, they're great to see and we're lucky to have them back after they went missing for a year after the Tsnami

does it matter if your mates from down under are Aussies or Kiwis? course, not, they're all the same, right?

[kgdiver]

I have seen Bull Sharks on two occasions @ Chumpon Pinnacle. I think it is a fairly common place to find them. Both were about 7 feet in length and thicker than any reef shark I have ever seen.

[JonnieB]

Very interesting news...I wonder where they go when they "grow-up." Do they stay in deeper water in the gulf or head out to the open waters outside the gulf?

[jamiemac]

Don't care,long as they don't bite me.

We certainly don't see them mid-gulf on the wrecks we dive. There again we don't see the Tigers and Hammerheads that the fishing boats catch until they're hanging on the pier.

Perhaps they hang around the gas platforms and eat scraps etc.....

jamie

[eagleandy]

Dived there at the end of October 2007. Visibility poor, 7m, due to the bad weather. But did see 1 shark. Wasn't around long enough to tell if it was Bull or Reef, sorry....

[Tiptopperoo]

Probably one of those scenarios where people who know haven't asked too many questions or simply wanted to believe they were diving with grey reef sharks and not bulls. Those who didn't know accepted what they were told.

I for one am even keener to dive there now knowing they are Bulls. Not everyday you get to dive with what is apparently the most aggressive shark on the face of the planet. As long as I am in a decent size group and vis is good I don't see any issues really. After all if you checkout the international shark attack file there has only been 1 recorded fatal shark attack in Thailand since 1580, so I think we are all pretty safe! Check it out here: Map of Asia's Confirmed Unprovoked Shark Attacks (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/GAttack/MapAsia.htm)

[jamiemac]

key word is 'unprovoked'

I know of lots of provoked attacks, even one fatality off Songkla when a fisherman was cutting a tiger from a net when another one bit his arm and leg off. He bled to death on he deck of the gas company support vessel that tried to give help - I got sent the pictures

there was another baby tiger ( 6ft) that bit a fisherman in very shallow water off the beach on Samui when it got caught in a net - he was ok, though, and even managed to land the shark with a mangled leg.

saying all that, i'd rather face an angry tiger shark underwater than a Samui speedboat captain who's late for his lunch

[Tiptopperoo]

Thanks Jamie, my self reassurance is now not so reassuring...anyone for chess?

[Arizona]

Very interesting news...I wonder where they go when they "grow-up." Do they stay in deeper water in the gulf or head out to the open waters outside the gulf?

Good to see you on SB Jonnie B. I meeting Marc later tonight.

[pakman]

really. After all if you checkout the international shark attack file there has only been 1 recorded fatal shark attack in Thailand since 1580, so I think we are all pretty safe! Check it out here: Map of Asia's Confirmed Unprovoked Shark Attacks (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/GAttack/MapAsia.htm)

Who would have known that Iran would be on top of that list?

Jamie - :rofl3: about the Samui speed boat captains!

[mislav]

They're still there. I just saw them yesterday when diving on Chumpon Pinnacle early in the morning. There was five or six of them and what a great dive that was! :14:

[andshand]

we were there mid jan and after our 1st dive during SI we saw a big splash and headed to the sun deck to take a look. About 20m away was a shark at the surface fro about 10 mins anyway that was def a grey.

On our next dive we were about 23m down when we saw something come in from the blue at about 15m, it never got too close but it looked dif to the 1st one to me. Back on board half the group thought it was a bull (which was on my mind) and the other half a grey!! We need photos to confirm i think.

[andshand]

sorry mislav i ignored your post. how were they? did they come in close or interact?

[mislav]

XI: Thou shall not ignore Mislav's posts! :D

They did come pretty close, about 4-6 meters away from us. It was early in the morning, about 8:15 local time and they were acting kinda curious about who we were and what we were doing down there. I think they were more interested in tunas that were in the area although I haven't seen them chasing them.

And to me they looked more like greytips than young bull sharks, but then again - the viz was really, really bad and I'm no expert on sharks.

[Manuel Sam]

The Shark Dive in Beqa Lagoon off of Pacific Harbour in Fiji is another place to see bulls and 5-6 other types of sharks, including, on occasions, tigers.

[jamiemac]

we've got a couple of instructors from Hawaii visiting for a wreck expedition. They saw a variety of sharks yesterday afternoon, some of which were bulls , they said, some greys.

when we drift deco away from the rock we sometimes see a third species. they have a long top tail lobe ( not as long as a thresher's), travel in groups of 5-6, about 2m long. our captain thinks silkys.

the buggers do all the deco with us and only leave when the boat arrives

Jamie MV Trident Tech Thailand (http://www.techthailand.com)

[Tiptopperoo]

But no aggressive behaviour has been noted has it? I am keen to dive there later this year and would love to see some Bulls!

[VooDooGasMan]

In PDC in mexico the fisherman drop off the remains from the day before at the shelf, the boat captains and divemasters do a dive before work. Be freindly and prove your Expeirence and they will take you out, day break with bullsharks is awesome,a little spendy of course.

[Ringo]

Any updates? Are they still there?

[jamiemac]

yep they is

[h90]

Very interesting news...I wonder where they go when they "grow-up." Do they stay in deeper water in the gulf or head out to the open waters outside the gulf?

Hopefully not in a shark fins soup....In Chinatown there are tons of shark fins....

[limbo]

Shark fins in Pattaya

[h90]

Shark fins in Pattaya
so scary your picture is, that are just a few. I have seen them piled per 10 pcs or per kg, a large room full of that. I can't estimate how many, but I guess thousands.
I also recall: two companies signed a contract and all the staff was invited and the customer, so maybe 500-800 people in a laaarge room. Served for everyone Shark-Fin soup. One company Dutch with Chinese/Thai manager and shareholder, one company US with british Manager....
Shark Fin soup for 500-800 people!!!!!!!

[Tiptopperoo]

I take it that from Limbo's pic, shark finning is still legal in Thailand? Or do the authorities simply turn a blind eye?

[limbo]

Not too sure about the actual legal status of finning sharks but afaik it's totally legit to sell shark fins (soup) in Thailand.

[h90]

Not too sure about the actual legal status of finning sharks but afaik it's totally legit to sell shark fins (soup) in Thailand.

Asking arround, I got the answers: It does not make any difference if it is allowed or not :confused:
And about the soup: Mr. Thaksin eats it many time (in a restaurant/hotel I didn't know and so could not remember the name). So as Mr. Thaksin eats it, it must be legal, he wouldn't do something wrong or?

That was the answer of the Thais in my office.....sounds pretty cynical

[limbo]

Sounds like a typical Thai answer to me..........

Files in the same category as;

I don't eat beef because Rama V (King # 5) didn't eat beef.

[h90]

Sounds like a typical Thai answer to me..........

Files in the same category as;

I don't eat beef because Rama V (King # 5) didn't eat beef.

One of my former staff didn't eat beef, because cattle are such big animals.....
Maybe we should start to tell that Rama V didn't eat sharkfins.....
(might not help as I think it is mostly the Chinese who eat it not the Thais)

[dm_junkie]

HI,

I just read your write-up and recalled one of my 2007 amateur video done in Chumphon July. Viz was not good with currents. Up to Sail Rock, we are still able to see them.

Chumphon Dive July 2007 on Yahoo! Video (http://sg.video.yahoo.com/watch/893476/3577753)

Initially, we have been arguing that is resembles to a sand bar shark as we've only one book that showed the different type of shark and possibilities of finding them there.

Finally, someone confirmed ! Bull shark that I have been diving with ... haha

[Makhno]

Any recent sightings? Frequency? I'm thinking about going to Thailand again to dive some deep wrecks with the MV Trident folks (jamiemac et al.) and wouldn't mind seeing some big toothy critters before I do the tech stuff ...

[jamiemac]

Not sure if they're anout, haven't been there in ages. but if you come we'll get out there in the afternoon, go deep over the sand and do some noisy tec skills, if they're there they'll find us for sure.

Just hope the pesky big spotty sharks don't get in the way

Jamie

[ayeshacantrell]

All shark sightings tend to drop off when it gets colder here throughout monsoon. Maybe they are still there but deeper or we dont see them due to lower viz. I have literally bumped into one in about 1m viz though - not sure who jumped furthest - me or the shark ! About this time of year they start to be seen again and a few have been spotted so far so we'll expect sightings to gradually increase in line with the better conditions.

Whalesharks are still seen and there was one yesterday heralding the return of these creatures to our sites. They tend to hang around til May and we see a few again in Sept and Oct.

Bull sharks or large reef sharks - not sure - but they are amazing to see. Maybe there are both as some do seem to be larger and bulkier than others. I always count myself very lucky to see them whichever they are. I guess you'll only really know if you come and check it our for yourself. Chumpon pinnacle is an exciting dive, I've seen marlin hunting here too and literally walls of barracuda ! I do have a few photos - take a look and decide for yourself......

http://learntodiveonkohtao.com/sharks-at-chumpon-pinnacle (Sharks at Chumpon Pinnacle)

[naga]

i think we should do some actual research about whether these are actually Bull Sharks; like actually get a biologist to confirm it.

An Australian Navy Diver on a counter-terrorist exercise just lost his right hand and one of his legs in Sydney harbour about 3 weeks ago to a Bull Shark. The real thing is notoriously territorial and aggressive.

[Bowmouth]

i think we should do some actual research about whether these are actually Bull Sharks; like actually get a biologist to confirm it.

An Australian Navy Diver on a counter-terrorist exercise just lost his right hand and one of his legs in Sydney harbour about 3 weeks ago to a Bull Shark. The real thing is notoriously territorial and aggressive.

There's been done quite a bit of research already about the Chumpon Pinnacle sharks.
Please read: Bull Sharks of Chumphon Pinnacle (http://www.bigpinkshark.com/Bull%20Sharks%20of%20Chumphon.htm)

Bull sharks can indeed be fairly grumpy creatures. Still, as far as I know, haven't we had any nasty incidents with bulls in Thai waters. It's probably because they are Thai bull sharks and have the happy-happy "mai pen rai" attitude....

:D

[MoonWrasse]

Bull sharks can indeed be fairly grumpy creatures. Still, as far as I know, haven't we had any nasty incidents with bulls in Thai waters. It's probably because they are Thai bull sharks and have the happy-happy "mai pen rai" attitude....

:D

Sounds more like they have ใจเย็น qualities. Just don't go drinking with them.

[Fina]

People actually dive with actual bull sharks all the time. Just because they don't attack you, doesn't mean they're not bull sharks!
I don't think it takes a marine biologist to see from photos that these are bulls.
As for the navy diver in Sydney, he had been on surface for 45minutes in horrible, murky water. I've had the please of diving with these Thai bull sharks in 25 metre vis, certainly no chance of a shark taking a blind snap-in-the-dark at a diver here!

[Louie]

People actually dive with actual bull sharks all the time. Just because they don't attack you, doesn't mean they're not bull sharks!
I don't think it takes a marine biologist to see from photos that these are bulls.
As for the navy diver in Sydney, he had been on surface for 45minutes in horrible, murky water. I've had the please of diving with these Thai bull sharks in 25 metre vis, certainly no chance of a shark taking a blind snap-in-the-dark at a diver here!

Have had a quite a few dives in poor viz at Chumphon during my time at KT. Perhaps a bull is due for a taste test.

Anyways, it's always fun to see this thread being resurrected again.