WANTED: BCD with easily visible and reachable straps, buckles, D-rings. Also, wide-set shoulder straps, well-designed weight pockets and two easy-to-cinch tanks bands. Will be used primarily on vacations to Caribbean, etc.
MY PROBLEM: My bust. (Sigh.) I can't see over it to my waist. So I have to don my gear entirely by feel, which reduces my comfort level and my confidence.
I've been diving an Oceanic Isla for three years. It's a great BC -- for someone else. Mine fits well, as far as that goes. But I'm tired of fumbling with cumberbund, clasp and weight belt. And being unable to use *hidden* poorly located weight pockets, storage pockets and D-rings.
SUGGESTIONS? The relative merits of a back inflate vs. a backplate and wings? Makes and models?
TIA,
Judy
Scubaroo
January 13th, 2003, 02:57 AM
A quick search on "big breasts" brought up this old thread:
BC recommendations and bad jokes all in the same thread.
There are several backplate diving women on this board - hopefully some will chime in and provide details of their experience.
Uncle Pug
January 13th, 2003, 03:00 AM
Judy if you take a look at a pic of someone wearing a backplate you will see that the shoulder straps do not come down over the chest but curve to run along the side of the chest as the go down. The only thing to fasten is the waist strap which is just like a weight belt buckle... it is passed through the loop of the crotch strap and then fastened. While a stainless steel plate might be too heavy for travel an aluminum plate should be just fine... coupled with a 27# wing that would make a great travel BC.
Walter
January 13th, 2003, 07:56 AM
Judy,
The visibility issue is not one that I believe you'll be able to solve. Bottom line is some type of strap has to go around your waist.
divemistress
January 13th, 2003, 08:35 AM
for your help. it's much appreciated.
up, based on your advice, i checked halcyon's website, and will start looking for a LDS that carries BP/wing configurations.
:) scubaroo, before posting, i read half dozen to a dozen threads on BCDs, both in this forum and the bcd forum. i even i re-read *most* of the thread you refer to. (i hate it when posters don't do their homework.) but most posters discussed size, fit and comfort, rather than design.... i do remember someone describing a similar problem, but i don't think solutions were discussed. i couldn't find that particular post.
ah, walter, i have hope! last night i comparison tested a girlfriend's isla and her husband's dive-rite. his seemed INFINITELY better, for me at least. one connection only under the bust. but wide shoulder straps -- AND D-rings and (superior) weight pockets ON THE SIDES!
that means one adjustment under the bust, vs. the 4-5 i have now. woo-hoo! but i don't want to rush and buy a dive-rite if there's an even better option.
chickdiver
January 13th, 2003, 09:29 AM
I would strongly suggest that you try the BP/Wing setup. As Up states, the straps do curve over the shoulder and then angle back to the rear of the waist, with a waist strap coming around. There is nothing over the chest whatsoever, especially not ay of those annoyinf straps that can cross the chest at the very, ummm, "delicate" area. I am guessing that you probobly have the classic "hourglass" hips, too (I do) and that a weight belt is often less than comfy (bruises on the hipbones, anyone?). In this case, you could look at the SS backplate to eliminate most (more likely all) of the weight for warm water diving, another alternative is a V weight. I would be happy to send you some pictures of the BP/Harness on myslef, if you haven't seen one on another woman before.
Good luck.
Walter
January 13th, 2003, 10:51 AM
4 - 5 connections under the waist? What kind of BC do you have? Are you sure it's a BC and not a torture device?
I'm sure my BC is not best for your body type, but it has only 2 connections in the front, 1 at the waist (nylon webbing & buckle) and one useless connection at the chest that I've never used (quick release design).
Dee
January 13th, 2003, 12:19 PM
DM...I also use a BP/wing. Upon first try, I hated them. The way the stiff webbing 'curved along the chest' also dug into my armpit! But I loved the minimalist feel of it. So I changed from the continuous one piece webbing to a Dive Rite Deluxe Q harness. It has a D-ring at just about arm pit level where the webbing from the shoulder meets the webbing going to the BP/waist. This D-ring make a pivot point of sorts to keep the webbing flat and out of your armpit. I also use a chest strap which I never have before but I like the secure feel of it...and I'm a chesty person myself.
For the same price, if not cheaper, of most BC's you'll have a truly custom fitted BC.
Here's a picture showing the D rings I mentioned.
chickdiver
January 13th, 2003, 12:22 PM
Dee, if the harness was digging into your armpits, it was too tight. you should be able to insert 2 fingers between the straps and your body, this is approx 1-2" of "give". A properly fitted harness does not require either the rings or the chest strap.
norcaldiver
January 13th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Have you looked at the Zeagle Zena? No cumberbun, just a zipper in front and 2 sinches on each side. Fits -and kinda looks- like a corset. Alot of people are unsure about the zipper, but my buddy has one and uses it in cold water with a 7 mil, 2 pc wetsuit and swears by it. The other thing about the zeagles is that it's modular. If you need a little more room upstairs, have the shoulders from a larger size put on it-YES YOU CAN, DON"T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!-I do it all the time for people. Finally, it folds up into a small area for great traveling.
raviepoo
January 13th, 2003, 07:03 PM
Divemistress,
If you end up buying a Dive Rite Transpac be sure to get a size small. The next size up, M/L is too big for a woman, even a, busty, medium tall woman like me. I let a shop owner convince me that the M/L fit and I regret it now. The chest strap hits right at boob level. I have made mods to get around this problem, but considering what I paid for the BC I should not have to do that. I will probably end up swapping out parts of the BC to make it fit better.
Another model you might consider is the back inflated Seaquest Libra. I used one until I started diving in the Northeat Atlantac and needed a BC with more lift. I remember the first time I tried it on in the shop. My heart beat faster. My palms started to sweat. I got this strange, quivery feeling in the pit of my stomach. Something inside me screamed, "This is it! I must posess this!!!"
It's a busty girls dream. The chest strap is mounted high enough to avoid squishing el boobolas. The weight pockets are inobtrusive. Both straps have plastic rings that you can clip things off to. There is a metal D ring on the bottom of one side of the cumberbund. The other side has the female end of a plastic clip system, but it would be easy to replace it with a D ring. The only complaint I had about mine was the fact that it had only one pocket.
It's a great BC for warm water diving. It takes up minimal room in your luggage. I would still be diving it and loving it if I was not doing cold water diving in addition to my warm water trips.
Dee
January 13th, 2003, 10:14 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Dee, if the harness was digging into your armpits, it was too tight. you should be able to insert 2 fingers between the straps and your body, this is approx 1-2" of "give". A properly fitted harness does not require either the rings or the chest strap.
Mine was fitted properly. But no matter how well it's fitted, on land the stiff straps do cut into tender skin. In the water, it wasn't as much of a problem but it still chafed. My BP 'mentors' kept telling me that same thing and double checking the fit. I do not dive in a wetsuit, they all do. When I requested they dive in the skin, they promptly understood why I preferred the DR Deluxe harness and quit giving me grief over it.
And it didn't, and doesn't now, require the chest strap. I just like the way it feels. I was just letting DM know that there is more than one webbing configuration for a BP/wing out there. There is none better than the other, it's whatever works for you.
chickdiver
January 13th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Pardon me, did I step on some toes?? We are, each entitled to our own opinion. Mine happens to be that the DR "harness" (and I use that term loosely) is a POS, and I would discourage someone from buying it. I tried to be nice about it, but since you seem to feel a need to defend your choice, so will I.
raviepoo
January 13th, 2003, 11:00 PM
Dee isn't calling you names or beating up on you. She's just stating her own experience with the gear. People really do have different experiences and different levels of success with the same gear. Just because it works for you it might not work for Dee.
My LDS uses a (nameless because I don't want to piss ayone off by defaming their gear) BC that I think is a POS for all of it's open water classes. In my DM class I asked the instructor about it and he pointed out several logical reasons why a new diver might want to use one of these BCs.
It's just gear. One guy might dive with a BP/wings setup. Someone else might be perfectly happy with a jacket style BC with pink and purple trim. There's no contest here. We're supposed to be having fun.
chickdiver once bubbled...
Pardon me, did I step on some toes?? We are, each entitled to our own opinion. Mine happens to be that the DR "harness" (and I use that term loosely) is a POS, and I would discourage someone from buying it. I tried to be nice about it, but since you seem to feel a need to defend your choice, so will I.
divemistress
January 14th, 2003, 12:21 AM
and thanks, everyone, for the great advice. i now have about a dozen leads to investigate.....something tells me i may not have this new BC by my next dive vacation. :)
Walter
January 14th, 2003, 12:29 AM
I'll answer that in a PM. No need for it in a post.
Dee
January 14th, 2003, 12:58 AM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Pardon me, did I step on some toes?? We are, each entitled to our own opinion. Mine happens to be that the DR "harness" (and I use that term loosely) is a POS, and I would discourage someone from buying it. I tried to be nice about it, but since you seem to feel a need to defend your choice, so will I.
No, you didn't step on my toes at all. How are yours?
As you yourself stated, I am entitled to my own opinion and I stated it. Your response isn't a surprize, in fact it was expected. I hope your opinion that Dive Rite's products are a POS is because you dislike their design rather than an opinion of the quality of their priduct.
We'll not agree, and I never expected to. And I'm sorry DM and others with a legitimate question got hit with DIR fallout, it was not my intention.
Dee
January 14th, 2003, 01:01 AM
raviepoo once bubbled...
It's just gear. One guy might dive with a BP/wings setup. Someone else might be perfectly happy with a jacket style BC with pink and purple trim. There's no contest here. We're supposed to be having fun.
Thanks, Raviepoo. Fortunately, I think most everyone agrees with you!
chickdiver
January 14th, 2003, 01:27 AM
when did this become "DIR fallout"? I never sadi that my opinion on DR had anything to do with DIR. I happen to think that they are poorly designed for a number of reasons. I'm happy you like yours, however not everyone does.
Dee
January 14th, 2003, 03:35 AM
chickdiver once bubbled...
when did this become "DIR fallout"? I never sadi that my opinion on DR had anything to do with DIR. I happen to think that they are poorly designed for a number of reasons. I'm happy you like yours, however not everyone does.
You're right, you didn't mention DIR, I did...And I apologize. I was assuming.
Calling something a POS just seems kind of strong when it's a design flaw you object to. Guess our terminology isn't all we'll disagree on.
scubatexastony
January 14th, 2003, 11:46 AM
Seems to me it's hard to "fit" someone if you're not there in person.... proponents of the single piece web can't seem to grasp the simplistic engineering design of the DR. Sure the "hourglass" and "heman" body types have no problems with a single web harness, (mine works just fine, BTW. :) ) We were fortunate in having Maddiver giving tips on fitting when making our changes to BP/wings, but even he will attest to the better fit provided with the added pivot point in cases like my wife. (and Dee too)
(bigger ladel....more stirring) I'm courious to know the credentials of those condemning a piece of gear and their experience with that peice of gear. AND it would be nice to see that explaination of expericence or reference to data backing up the good or bad aspects.
I won't suggest or recommend the Halcyon as the only BP/wing set up as I only have 130 or so dives with it in the past year. I will say I personally find the construction is of high quality and it is holding up well. I will recommend the simplistic set up of a BP and it's major advantage of streamlining a diver and added ease of movement and bouyancy characteristics.
divemitress, try out any system you plan on getting, if possible. With your time constraints, I hope you have a place where you can get used to a new device prior to hitting the open water. Hope you have a great time on your vacation.
tony
chickdiver
January 14th, 2003, 12:33 PM
Tony,
In response to your request, I ill provide my credentials and a little background, including my personal experiences wth various systems.
Diving 16 years
Begining my 9th year of teaching
Full Cave since 97
Cavern Instructor
Trimix Instructor
I am primarily a cave and "technical" diver, but I also still do the occasional single tank, warm water dive.
I teach primarily tech classes, but I am also an Instructor Trainer and I actively staff ITC's.
I began diving in a bright orange SCUBABPRO stab jacket. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, until SCUBAPRO came out with the "Classic". I still have my original classic, and I liked diving that, too. Back in '94 when I started getting into "tech" diving I acquired a Zeagle back inflate that was capable of handling doubles. I thought it was ungodly uncomfortable (later I found that it was because it lacked a backplate), but I was living on Guam, and that was what was availbale, and I just thought we all had to live with it.
Fast forward to '95 when I moved back to Florida and began Cave Diving- I got talked into buying a Tranpac II, which was LESS comfortable to me than the Zeagle had been. Oddly enough, I liked the simplicity of the BP/Harness setup, but my partner convinced me that I needed to TPII. Well, I got rid of it after 7 dives because not only was it uncomfortable, I had that rare occurance of having a quick release buckle break, during a dive. Let me tell you, if you have never had this exereince, you cannot truly appreciate how miserable it can be, I had about a 500' exit in a high flow system following the failure, and all I was thinking about was how to keep the doubles form shifting all over the place. So after that dive I got rid of it. That was so miserable I didn't sell, it, didn't fix it, I BURNED IT!!
So I started looking at other options, and originally went with the DR harness that e have been discussing here. I discovered a number of problems with the setup:
the straps were set to cross behind the neck, which I discovered was VERY uncomfortable, and it necessitated having the rings on each strap to adjust the bad angle created by the behind the neck cross. This also necessitated the use of a chest strap to pull the harness straps in to where they should be, but this, too was uncomfortable.
After about 6 months of diving this nearly every weekend and being miserable, I happened upon a harness with continuous webbing- I saw the solution to all my problems. Fromt he first time I dove one I was in love with it. I loved the simplicity, lack of failure points, and freedom it provided. I have 2 Backplates, an aluminum and a SS, this is all I dive anymore. I dive them in Mexico on shallow reefs in a bathing suit, I dont find that it "chaffs" anywhere. I dive them in a drysuit with 400G thinsulate and everything in between. I do not adjust the shoulder straps, ever. The waist strap is the key, the shoulder straps need to be loose, but if the waist strap fits right then it all comes together.
So theres my story, and,as you can see, I have reasons for being such an avid proponent of this system. I spent thousands of dollars on crap, and I hate to see others make the sae mistake.
Natasha
January 14th, 2003, 12:55 PM
Chickdiver:
Just curious.. did you really burn it? Really set fire to it?
chickdiver
January 14th, 2003, 01:03 PM
Yes M'am I did. Took it out in the backyard, jumped up and down on it a coupla times, threw some lighter fluid on it and lit a match. I was REALLY REALLY mad at the time.
Cave Diver
January 14th, 2003, 01:14 PM
scubatexastony once bubbled...
We were fortunate in having Maddiver giving tips on fitting when making our changes to BP/wings, but even he will attest to the better fit provided with the added pivot point in cases like my wife. (and Dee too)
Has anyone seen or heard from Maddiver lately? He said he might be moving to Florida and I sent him a few messages lately with no response.
Re: BP/wings & one piece webbing vs. harness, I'll share my opinion.
I started diving with a Jacket. Thought it was okay, but not optimal.
I switched to TPII after I felt it's modular ability would grow with me as my diving progressed. It was much better than the jacket, but it took quite a bit of fidgeting with all of the buckles and adjustments for me to get it to fit "just right." Once I got it there, it felt pretty good, but adjustments seemed to loosen every couple of dives or so... Kind of annoying after a while, but bearable.
A friend gave me a BP several months ago and I bought the webbing for it, but was too lazy to go find a grommet and punch a hole in the webbing for the top tank bolt. I finally did that weekend before last, rigged all my harness, widened the slot to accept a 2" crotch strap (originally was only 1") and tried it out at the local mudhole on Thursday night.
I hafta admit, I was pretty impressed. I had my adjustments pretty well on from learning and listening to others that had a bp. I had no problems slipping it on or off, and in the water if felt perfectly comfortable. No shifting, no tightening, practically invisible in the water. It fit me better than anything else I have tried.
I will probably still use the TPII for diving singles, but I can pretty well gauranteee that I will use only my bp setup now on for doubles.
As a side note, I have another buddy with practically the same experience. Jacket, TPII, now BP. He feels practically the same way I do.
Cave Diver
January 14th, 2003, 01:16 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Yes M'am I did. Took it out in the backyard, jumped up and down on it a coupla times, threw some lighter fluid on it and lit a match. I was REALLY REALLY mad at the time.
<Mental note: dont make Chickdiver mad>
I saw a quote on someone's profile: Teach a man how to start a fire, he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life!
<Wondering if DUI makes asbestos undergarments???>
FredT
January 14th, 2003, 01:41 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Yes M'am I did. Took it out in the backyard, jumped up and down on it a coupla times, threw some lighter fluid on it and lit a match. I was REALLY REALLY mad at the time.
NEVER get this lady even mildly annoyed with you!:fire:
FT
chickdiver
January 14th, 2003, 01:42 PM
I can take just about anything with a smile, unless it starts to screw with my diving, and then I believe in a "scorched earth" policy....:out:
canuckdiver
January 14th, 2003, 01:47 PM
LOL, hmmmm, "scorched earth" policy
a woman who thinks like me, is into overkill!!
this could be scary :out:
Dee
January 14th, 2003, 02:55 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
...So I started looking at other options, and originally went with the DR harness that e have been discussing here. I discovered a number of problems with the setup:
the straps were set to cross behind the neck, which I discovered was VERY uncomfortable, and it necessitated having the rings on each strap to adjust the bad angle created by the behind the neck cross. This also necessitated the use of a chest strap to pull the harness straps in to where they should be, but this, too was uncomfortable.
After about 6 months of diving this nearly every weekend and being miserable, I happened upon a harness with continuous webbing- I saw the solution to all my problems. Fromt he first time I dove one I was in love with it. I loved the simplicity, lack of failure points, and freedom it provided. I have 2 Backplates, an aluminum and a SS, this is all I dive anymore. I dive them in Mexico on shallow reefs in a bathing suit, I dont find that it "chaffs" anywhere. I dive them in a drysuit with 400G thinsulate and everything in between. I do not adjust the shoulder straps, ever. The waist strap is the key, the shoulder straps need to be loose, but if the waist strap fits right then it all comes together.
So theres my story, and,as you can see, I have reasons for being such an avid proponent of this system. I spent thousands of dollars on crap, and I hate to see others make the sae mistake.
I don't cross my straps behind my neck, I find that very uncomfortable, too. And it doesn't matter which way you run the straps, there's no 'set' to them...at least not on mine. Since my straps run directly over my shoulders there's no bad angle to deal with. I don't need the chest strap to pull the shoulders into place. I like the feel of it whereas you don't, a matter of difference of opinion not good or bad, right or wrong.
You don't show a photo in your profile so I don't know what your 'shape' is but us women with full figures find the DR harness fits us better. If that's not the case for you, great.
I appreciate you trying to prevent others from making mistakes in buying gear...there we do agree. BTW, DR does make a Deluxe Harness without the quick release buckle.
