Over Under Lens

[grouchyturtle]

I have a Canon EOS-10D with an Ike housing, 8" port, and 2 DS-125s.

I primarily use a wide angle telephoto. I like being able to do macro and wide angle on the same dive, but I have to use a diopter to get the lens to focus under water.

I'm looking to possibly get another fixed lens, primarily for over/under shots.

What would be the ideal focal length for this lens?

[Christian]

For under/over-shots, you want a wide angle lens. Take a look at the Canon 10-22 zoom, the Sigma 10-20 and then Tokinas 10-17 fisheye zoom. They all have excellent close focusing abilities and will most certainly not need dioptres (which won't work for over/unders).

good luck

[grouchyturtle]

Any reason, why you recommend zoom instead of fixed wide angle?

The Canon and Sigma will just barely fit the Ike ports, but are too wide to attach the zoom clamps.

[Christian]

Sorry, wasn't aware that you couldn't fit them in your housing. Unfortunatelly there are few really wide primes available for cropped sensors. The widest rectilinear prime is the 14 mm Sigma (perhaps there's a Canon-make too?) which wasn't originally designed for cropped digital, but work. They'll give you a 85-90° FoV on your Canon. That could be an option. Then there are the Sigma and Canon 15 mm FE primes which would be a bit wider, fixed alternatives (ca 120° FoV) if you don't mind fisheye (personally I like it a lot for UW-use). But then the Tokina 10-17 would give you more flexibility and a 'proper' 180° FoV on the wide end. I haven't personally used that lens (I'm a Nikon-shooter and use the 10.5 for fisheye) but it has gotten raving reviews from many, pro's included.

/christian

[grouchyturtle]

on the other hand, just because I can't zoom it in the housing doesn't mean it won't work

[Christian]

on the other hand, just because I can't zoom it in the housing doesn't mean it won't work

Very true. A lot of photographers just set the zoom to desired focal length. Some think it even helps them as you then tend to focus on one type of images instead of 'hunting' all sorts of motives during a dive. You still get the flexibilty of being able to switch between different FoV:s on different dives.

/christian

[RonFrank]

Over/Under shots are VERY difficult to pull off.

IMO go with the 12~24mm Tokina. Great lens. There is no reason that one has to use a fisheye to do over/under, but it does make it easier if you have a very wide field of view.

The 12~24mm give one a 61~99 degree field of view, can be used quite nicely as a WA UW lens and topside lens, and should works fine with the IKE dome port, and zoom ring. I use this lens with that setup in a Nikon Flavor, and on great VIS days, it's an awesome lens. Very useful topside as well which is one thing the fisheye zooms are NOT so useful for.

[vazuw]

Im new to this forum. I have found the 10.5 to be the easiest/best for ou. I use a single flash for below to get color. see examples at Flickr: Photos from vazuw (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vazuw)

[bladephotog]

The Canon 10-22 fits just fine in my Ike 8" port and I can use the zoom ring with no problems. Here (http://www.andymorrisonphotography.com/photogallery/GilboaQuarry/gilboa2.html) is an example of an over/under with the 10-22. This is taken in fresh water where the viz is good but not great. You should have much better luck in warm water.

[RonFrank]

Im new to this forum. I have found the 10.5 to be the easiest/best for ou. I use a single flash for below to get color. see examples at Flickr: Photos from vazuw (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vazuw)

Nice stuff, and welcome to SB. :D

[dhaas]

grunzster,

If you have a Canon 10D many EF-S and APS-C lenses people are talking about are only made to work specifically the Digital Rebel, 20D, 30D, Rebel XT, Rebel XTi and now 40D camera sensors.I'm not sure about the Sigma 12-24mm some folks are recommending......

The Sigma 10-20mm that a couple of my friends use DOES have too big a diameter to attach the Ikelite zoom clamp and ring in their port throat. But if it is usable on your Canon 10D, you COULD preset it at like 10-12mm and shoot away!

I think your best bet is the Sigma 15mm or Canon 15mm Fisheye lenses. On your cropped sensor camera it will be a little less "fisheye" looking, but still sharper in the corners (due to starting as a 180 degree field of view) than any rectilinear ("normal view") wide angle lens.

Underwater fisheye lenses do not look as "fisheye" if there isn't a straight line man made object (think a shipwreck or ????) to show curvature at the edges, mostly.

You would just have to make sure you have the right extension length on your 8" dome port for either teh Canon or SIgma 15mm lenses.

Hope this helps!

dhaas

ww.haasimages.com

[danclem]

Hi All:

I am starting to toy with over/under shots. Besides patience, lots of shots, and a bit of luck, are there some other tricks? I had difficulty in the Galapagos where the water was a bit active, and drops would land on the surface section of my dome port. Would something like an application of baby shampoo on the dome port help minimize this issue?

Thanks for any advice!

[vazuw]

I find its best to be as stable as possible, calm waters,shallow are where I can stand on the sand, or holding onto the boat. Once I compose, I focus and meter for the above, using fill flash for the under. Usually I have to adjust the below exposure in photoshop. With a 10.5 I can use a fast shutter speed without worrying about the depth of field. I do a quick dunk to clean the dome, and take multiple shots in hopes of getting the best waterline angle, dunking before each shot. alot of luck and practice is involved. Ill try to post examples when I get home from work,or tomorrow. I hope thats of some help. vazuw

[grouchyturtle]

Yeah now that I think about it the Canon is out EF-S lenses are only for the 20-D and newer models. The 10-D will only work with EF.

I'm leaning towards the Sigma.

The Tokina does looke really nice, but I'm just not a big fisheye fan. All you purists, get your flamethrowers ready...I've always felt, if I really want a fisheye effetct, it can be done in Photoshop.

[grouchyturtle]

The Canon 10-22 fits just fine in my Ike 8" port and I can use the zoom ring with no problems. Here (http://www.andymorrisonphotography.com/photogallery/GilboaQuarry/gilboa2.html) is an example of an over/under with the 10-22. This is taken in fresh water where the viz is good but not great. You should have much better luck in warm water.How?

Does Canon make more than one 10-22mm?

According to their website the diameter on that lens is 3.3".

According to Ikelite's site, and from talking to them, that is the max diemeter that will fit in their ports. The max diameter to use the calmp is 2.8".

[bladephotog]

Well I don't know about the numbers but it works just fine and dandy. Maybe call Reef Photo and check with them, but mine works fine.


How?

Does Canon make more than one 10-22mm?

According to their website the diameter on that lens is 3.3".

According to Ikelite's site, and from talking to them, that is the max diemeter that will fit in their ports. The max diameter to use the calmp is 2.8".

[dhaas]

Andy is right on, Canon 10-22mm EF-S lens barrel fits in the Ikelite ports and you can attach the clamp and sleeve.

BUT, again this lens is an EF-S lens NOT USABLE on your Canon 10D.

You can check, with footnotes for any limitiations on what lenses will work and search by brand, specific lens, etc. at www.ikelite.com

There is even a direct button on the home page to ports.

Hope that helps......

dhaas

[Christian]

Yeah now that I think about it the Canon is out EF-S lenses are only for the 20-D and newer models. The 10-D will only work with EF.

I'm leaning towards the Sigma.

The Tokina does looke really nice, but I'm just not a big fisheye fan. All you purists, get your flamethrowers ready...I've always felt, if I really want a fisheye effetct, it can be done in Photoshop.

The Sigma is a very nice lens for UW-work. Good CFD. I use it quite a bit.

Regarding fisheye lenses: Don't think many use them to obtain a fish eye effect (I don't). Personally I normally don't fancy fisheye at all topside, but find it acceptable UW because of reasons already mentioned in this thread. The main benefits are that you get a much wider FoV and that they are optically superior to wide rectilinear lenses when put behind a dome port regarding sharpness. Those things aren't fixable in Photoshop.

UW-shooting is a world of compromise. In the end, it is of course a matter of your photographic preferenses.

cheers

Christian

[grouchyturtle]

Ok, so I talked to Ikelite and they pointed out the obvious.
Overall diameter is larger than the zoom ring diameter!!

3.3" is the max overall diameter to fit in the port.
3" is the max zoom ring diameter.

I decided to go with the Sigma, which is almost the same size as the Canon...and it WILL work with the clamp! :D