Where to start - help pls

[frogfish]

Hi all - hope this is the right place to ask my question - let me know otherwise.

I am a currently a pure recreational diver (PADI Rescue - a couple of hundred dives) and would like to start doing some deco diving so I get more bottom time when exploring reefs and hopefully get to some beautiful wrecks in my area.

I understand that you have to start taking technical diving courses if you want to get into deco diving; is this correct ? Which training agency should I consider (I don't want to get into switching gases and so forth at this stage) ?

Also I am living in Singapore - any recommendations as to where getting my training ?

[DiveTub]

HI there
Have a look at TDI they offer great courses for the budding extended range diver.

http://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/tdihome.html

Not sure how big DIR is in Singapore, I dont think there are any instructors there yet

All the best in your quest

[usil]

More so then recreational diving, the whole thing is going to depend on the instructor. He/she is going to guide you in your quest to more aggresive diving. Ask around, hell ask everybody!!
Find the right guy to teach you and everything else falls into place

[Rush]

frogfish,

Take a look at IANTD. They offer outstanding training for the type of diving you are wanting to do. You can find IANTD's website HERE (http://www.iantd.com/)

Your situation sounds like mine. When I was a PADI Rescue Diver, I was looking to extend my bottom time and enjoyment, and IANTD was my solution.

Dive safe,

[roturner]

frogfish once bubbled...
Hi all - hope this is the right place to ask my question - let me know otherwise.

I am a currently a pure recreational diver (PADI Rescue - a couple of hundred dives) and would like to start doing some deco diving so I get more bottom time when exploring reefs and hopefully get to some beautiful wrecks in my area.

I understand that you have to start taking technical diving courses if you want to get into deco diving; is this correct ? Which training agency should I consider (I don't want to get into switching gases and so forth at this stage) ?

Also I am living in Singapore - any recommendations as to where getting my training ?

Obviously finding a good instructor is priority number 1.

As far as organisations go, I'm with Rush. IANTD has a good reputation and as far as I can tell a clear and thorough programme. TDI is obviously also an option but the president of TDI (who I affectionately call Dread Gilligan) has some ideas that don't jive with my idea of safe diving. I don't know how much of his ....uhmm.... unique point of view filters down into the training programmes but when I think about it my alarm bells go off.

You have a couple of other options. PADI has a rec/tec course that might suit your needs. I personally have some reservations about PADI's tec program just because their rec program has such serious quality control issues. However, if they have good instructors in your area it might be worth a closer look.

And GUE, who are also very well respected, may or may not have connections in your area. Gue comes out of the U.S. cave diving world and puts a lot of emphasis on in-water skills and equipment choices.

Cheers,
R..

[nickjb]

Just to add the above (all good advice) you might want to consider BSAC as well. There are several clubs in Singapore:

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~pax_tan/bsac/

They teach deco diving and the club structure might help you find a good mentor and a good buddy (just like a good instructor, a good buddy is important)

[MikeFerrara]

My $.02 is that you should pick the instructor. Go with someone who has experience and IS doing real technical dives. Not someone who was doing technical dives. You know, the guy who puffs out his chest and tells you about the time he dove the Mt. Everest of wrecks. Believe it or not in technical diving some manage to get a card with few dives and then they are all training dives. Go with an instructor who does it for real and excersizes the philosophy you wish to learn. Don't be shy. Ask where he/she dives and with whom. Ask to see a log book. Ask for references. Look at the equipment they use. dive with the instructor before you begin a class. Don't just walk in and plop down your money spend some time with this person.

If you want to do dives that require staged decompression you will be doing gas swithches. You should be learning how to plan and execute gas switches and handle the equipment that goes with it before you ever incure a decompression obligation.

[roakey]

Cutting dive tables and jumping in the water with deco bottles is the easy part of “technical” diving. Coming back when things go wrong is the hard part, and coming back from such a situation rests heavily on skills, not technical expertise.

GUE is heavily into the skills portion of the diving equation. If you’re thinking of going “technical” I would look first into taking the DIRF course. This course will give you the tools that will help you self-evaluate if you’re ready for technical diving or not. GUE is a very small organization, and as such they have very tight control over their instructors. There’s no worrying over “finding a good instructor” if you’re taking a GUE class you WILL have a good instructor, there’s probably only a dozen or two worldwide at this point in time.

Some good news too, GUE’s training director teaches GUE classes in Singapore quite often, see:

http://www.fifthd.com/divestore/AndrewG/02Sched.htm

He was in Singapore twice last year and taught five classes, two of them DIRF classes.

You should also look into GUE technical training. Many folks consider their training expensive, but not when you look at what you get in a class. Their Tech 1 class consists of Nitrox up to 100%, Normoxic Trimix and gas mixing. This is at least four classes through TDI or IANTD; if you add up the costs of those four classes you’ll exceed the cost of the one GUE class.

But back to the DIRF class: No matter what this is an excellent class to take; it’ll let you accurately assess your skills and weaknesses and will bring your recreational diving to another level, no matter how experienced you feel you are. I had been cave diving for three years before taking my DIRF and I thought I was pretty close to the experience level required for open water technical diving. The DIRF class showed me otherwise!

For more information on GUE, see:

http://www.gue.com/

Also search on DIRF in the technical forums to see what people thought about the class who took it.

Roak

[frogfish]

Thanks to all for yourinput. I guess I will have to do my homework re. TDI, IANTD and GUE and try to find out about instructors in Singapore. Will keep you posted !

Also I had a first look at the GUE website and it looks pretty good, although I am a bit concerned as how prescriptive they are ! For instance I don't like being told that I can't use split fins; - it probably makes sense if you dive in certain environments (e.g. silt), but telling people they won't teach you if you don't use Scubapro jetfins (I know I am pushing) sounds a bit to much... Same with regards to smoking : fair enough smoking is bad for your health but that should be enough... Just my views no offense pls

[roakey]

Thje DIRF class is relatively new and the requirements are changing quickly, they're some lag between the changes and the GUE page. To take the DIRF class all you need is a long hose, check the FifthD page for the latest requirements (http://www.fifthd.com/).

By the time you finish the class you won't need anyone to tell you to get rid of your split fins. You'll come to that conclusion yourself. The reasons for having stiff blades has nothing to do with silt. And yes, you're pushing :)

Roak

[lanun]

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17622

for my Ringgits - it was these guys ... www.divetioman.com
JC is in EU right now but should be back in a month or so.

[Wreck/Tec]

I am well aware that training is a must. It would be potential suicide to venture deeper, and longer, without some knowledge of what you may encounter before hand. Not to mention the skills required to survive the trip down and back ! Where we differ is I wasn't able to hand over 4-500 dollars. I bought the TDI Decompression and Advanced Nitrox manuals before I ventured deeper. I was fortunate enough to find a patient guy who took me under his wing and showed me what I was doing wrong and why. I studied all winter, practiceing many skills from reel work to gear familiarization, foul water procedures, trim, and task loading and more with all the new equipment that's required for where your headed , all at a responsible depth. It was alot of work and there are still situations today when I'll STOP, THINK, and ACT. That guy is now my deeper dive partner, I know him like a book as he does me. If you have the money, get the training by all means. If you don't have the scratch, start surfing GUE sites or some accredited agency that shows you how to configure your gear and why! Don't cut corners, talk to others, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Read every respectible source of information you can get your hands on. Just remember, GOD didn't write it ! This is an exciting place to be, BUT , you WILL find trouble sooner or later doing this . You have to be, mentally prepared, you have to have the equipment to survive, as well as the skills. It goes with out saying, excersize common sense! This could go on for ever, sufice to say, there is alot to this. It shouldn't be entered lightly.
Wreck/Tec

[MikeFerrara]

Wreck/Tec once bubbled...
I am well aware that training is a must. It would be potential suicide to venture deeper, and longer, without some knowledge of what you may encounter before hand. Not to mention the skills required to survive the trip down and back ! Where we differ is I wasn't able to hand over 4-500 dollars....

Tech classes can be expensive but not as expensive as tech diving. My las delivery of gas was $500 or more. That gas is only good for a couple of weekends. A 1/2 day dive charter will run over $100 per person. IMO, if one can't pay $500 for training they won't be doing much technical diving anyway.

[aamalcolm]

I'm also based in Singapore ... I would agree with the recommendation of taking IANTD tech training with JC on Tioman. He really knows what he is teaching and is doing the dives himself so the training is backed up with real experience.

Its an experience simply to spend time with him talking about some of the diving he's done and the people he's dived with (JJ, Tom Mount and others).

Another excellent alternative is Simon Liddiard of Blue Marlin Diving on Lombok (www.diveindo.com). He also covers all levels of IANTD and rebreathers.

If you want to go down to GUE/DIR route, there is a series of courses running in Simgapore in late March / early April.

DIR Fundamentals 24 to 26 March S$1050
Tech 1 ... 28 March to 1 April S$3380
Tech 2 ... 2 to 6 April S$5700

Check out the details on www.halcyonsingapore.com.sg


If you want details of who to avoid for tech training in Singapore send me a PM

[frogfish]

Thanks for the Singapore related contacts / recommendations. I also found about DiveRiau in Batam who do IANTD courses. Has anyone taken courses with them ?
Cheers