Looking for info on Seattle/Alki Cove 2 diver

[jodomonk]

Hello everyone,

My dive buddy and I, along with two other divers, pulled a man out of Seacrest Park Cove 2 today. He was in about 35 feet of water or so and did not have his regulator in his mouth. Our best guess is that he was down 3-5 minutes. He had surfaced, screamed for help (meanwhile my buddy and I were beginning ascent from our dive), and then gone back under. When we came up, his fiance was yelling from the shore about a diver being under us. My partner went down for about 2 minutes (I only had 450 psi left and could not risk going back down, he had 1100) and when he came back up, he had the guy in tow, frothing from the mouth and not breathing. His tank was empty so we had to manually inflate his BCD as we towed him in. When we got him to shore, paramedics had just arrived on site and began chest compressions along with that squeezy thing they put over your mouth. Eventually they hooked up some kind of machine to his chest as well as an I.V. I heard his fiance mention something about him being prone to panic attacks. 10-15 minutes later he was loaded onto an ambulance and they took off for Harborview Medical Center(he was still unconscious or not alive).

My guess is that he did not make it, but I am no medical expert and have been searching for information all day long, hoping for the best. If anyone finds out what the outcome was, please post. I would be very grateful.

The only article I have found thus far is here (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/346253_diver06.html).

[Kayla]

I would just keep your eye on the news sources around here... they usually do a pretty good job of picking that sort of thing up right away.

Kudos to you guys for helping out.... thats a tough spot to be in.

[jodomonk]

I would just keep your eye on the news sources around here... they usually do a pretty good job of picking that sort of thing up right away.

Kudos to you guys for helping out.... thats a tough spot to be in.

Thanks; I've been searching and searching but it seems no info has been released yet. I have been watching the NW Dive Club topic closely as well. I figure info should come up relatively quickly there. Unfortunately can't post because I am not a member and they have some longer approval process for new accounts. Anyways, the link to that thread is here (http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=3587&sid=77ec27affdfb643cf72e06a056011f70) for anyone who wants to watch that as well.

By the way, I forgot to mention he was a solo diver....

[lamont]

Hello everyone,

My dive buddy and I, along with two other divers, pulled a man out of Seacrest Park Cove 2 today. He was in about 35 feet of water or so and did not have his regulator in his mouth. Our best guess is that he was down 3-5 minutes. He had surfaced, screamed for help (meanwhile my buddy and I were beginning ascent from our dive), and then gone back under. When we came up, his fiance was yelling from the shore about a diver being under us. My partner went down for about 2 minutes (I only had 450 psi left and could not risk going back down, he had 1100) and when he came back up, he had the guy in tow, frothing from the mouth and not breathing. His tank was empty so we had to manually inflate his BCD as we towed him in. When we got him to shore, paramedics had just arrived on site and began chest compressions along with that squeezy thing they put over your mouth. Eventually they hooked up some kind of machine to his chest as well as an I.V. I heard his fiance mention something about him being prone to panic attacks. 10-15 minutes later he was loaded onto an ambulance and they took off for Harborview Medical Center(he was still unconscious or not alive).

My guess is that he did not make it, but I am no medical expert and have been searching for information all day long, hoping for the best. If anyone finds out what the outcome was, please post. I would be very grateful.

The only article I have found thus far is here (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/346253_diver06.html).

Its sounds like he ran out of gas and either drowned or embolized. Neither of those have particularly good survival rates and drowning is the best case.

It often takes the local news 24 hours or so to followup with the outcome and details are usually not forthcoming so you'll probably not get all the answers. Its very infrequent for the local news to publish the results of the medical examination.

It sounds like you gave him the best chance that you could though -- but he was dead when your buddy found him on the bottom and that usually doesn't end well no matter what you do.

[Kayla]

Before they can release details of any sort, there is a process, so it takes time... which, it rightly should... the family needs to be notified before the press gets their hands on it.. just my 0.02.

[TSandM]

Oh, bless the two of you for trying to help.

If he had any chance, it's because you were there. WHY do people dive alone?

[Gdog]

Yes, I hope you understand that what TS &M said is true....if there were any chance at all for him, you two provided it to him. Thank you for that.....no matter the outcome.

[PaulSmithTek]

God bless the both of you for your generousity and help. It is a sad thing to hear.

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Wow, I would never want to be in those shoes. Whatever the outcome, you did a great thing.

[wsb]

Hi - we are a 24/7 news site in West Seattle and covered this tragic incident here:
West Seattle Blog… » Update: Diver rushed to hospital after rescue near Seacrest (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5000)
The citywide news sources often drop stories after the initial report but we will be keeping watch on this since it happened in our coverage area. The Fire Department updated its media line shortly after the incident this afternoon but has not updated it since (we just checked); if anyone knows the diver's name, they could call Harborview Medical Center to try to get a condition update, but without a name, that's impossible. We will post an update on our site when more information does become publicly available. Meantime, sorry for the intrusion, back to lurking.

[TheWetRookie]

Congrats to both of you for doing your best to help the diver. I will add an extra one for you also jodomonk, and that is for being wise and not descending a second time with the amount of air that you had left. Very wise decision. You yourself do not want to become a victim.

[TheWetRookie]

WHY do people dive alone?

I can not speak for him, but only for myself but unless he had a major malfunction under the water which lead to him losing all his air, he made a major mistake which was to not watch his air pressure. It may not have mattered whether he had a buddy or not.

[NWGratefulDiver]

WHY do people dive alone?
I'm not sure that's the right question to be asking ... perhaps a better one would be whether or not he was properly equipped and experienced to be diving alone ... and would it have made a difference if a buddy had been there?

The last person to die in Cove 2 ... the rebreather diver who Jerry pulled out of the buoy chain a few months back ... was also diving solo. The one before that ... who Lamont, BDub and others tried to rescue ... had a dive buddy. The result was the same in both cases.

I solo dive that site from time to time (will be doing so in Cove 3 in just a couple of hours, in fact) ... and think the bigger issue is adequate preparation. Solo diving isn't something you should take lightly ... even if you are planning to "keep it shallow".

My condolences to this diver's family, friends, and those who were involved in bringing him in ... it's gonna be a tough time for all of them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[r2t]

If he was solo diving did he have redundancy air (pony bottle)? I can't imagine someone going in the water alone with out an independent source of air.

[Desert Pirate]

When we got him to shore, paramedics had just arrived on site and began chest compressions along with that squeezy thing they put over your mouth. Eventually they hooked up some kind of machine to his chest as well as an I.V.

Good work on your fast responce in retrieving him, and your sencible call not to endanger yourself. making more victims is never a good thing.

The next best thing that could have happend to this guy is having paramedics already in place to take over the resesetation. Kudos on their responce time as well. the squeezy thing they put over his mouth was more than likely a BVM (bag valve mask) a contraption that if used properly is more efficient and less likely to exchange fluids while giving venalations. It also has the option to deliver 100% oxygen at a very high rate while doing CPR, Which they were prabably doing also.

The fact that they attached a machine to his chest gives us hope that it is a defibilater and the subject was showing some kind of heart pattern. (it wont work if he is already dead regardless of what tv shows ya) just a lil FYI incase ya didnt already understand what they were doing for your towee.

Although full recesatations are slim, remember we have that golden hour, and your times are showing well with in that window. Fast first aid is the best First aid!

Good work again!
Clay :coffee:

[wsb]

Update: The diver's fiancee has just posted her story as a comment on our site, and says he did not survive. We have reposted her report as a standalone update here and will be adding whatever else we find out:
West Seattle Blog… » Seacrest diver accident update: Fiancee says he didn’t survive (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5017)

[Kayla]

Thank you for the update. Thoughts and prayers going out to the family...

[Ben_ca]

I can not speak for him, but only for myself but unless he had a major malfunction under the water which lead to him losing all his air, he made a major mistake which was to not watch his air pressure. It may not have mattered whether he had a buddy or not.


But having a buddy willing and able to donate air would have made a difference...

[TheWetRookie]

But having a buddy willing and able to donate air would have made a difference...

Depends on the buddy. I always carry a pony with me as I have been abandoned a number of times, even by an instructor. So at those times my "buddy" who is supost to be watching my back as I watch his would not have been there to help. Otherwise I would agree with you.

[jenmcv]

I am not actually a diver, but I wanted to tell about Josh. He is the diver pulled from the water yesterday on Alki beach . He was one of my best friends, and I am his fiance's best friend as well. I was supposed to be in their wedding, we just hadnt decided what side I was to stand on yet. Dont know why I thought you should know that, it just seems important. Every detail of him seems important to me now. Despite all efforts, nothing could bring him back. He is loved by so many, and will be greatly missed. He loved diving, and is in school to do it for a living. His fiance' loves him more than anything in this world and thanks you for everything everyone one that beach did to help rescue Josh.

[jodomonk]

Update: The diver's fiancee has just posted her story as a comment on our site, and says he did not survive. We have reposted her report as a standalone update here and will be adding whatever else we find out:
West Seattle Blog… » Seacrest diver accident update: Fiancee says he didn’t survive (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5017)

Thank you very much. I appreciate knowing what the final outcome was.


I am not actually a diver, but I wanted to tell about Josh. He is the diver pulled from the water yesterday on Alki beach . He was one of my best friends, and I am his fiance's best friend as well. I was supposed to be in their wedding, we just hadnt decided what side I was to stand on yet. Dont know why I thought you should know that, it just seems important. Every detail of him seems important to me now. Despite all efforts, nothing could bring him back. He is loved by so many, and will be greatly missed. He loved diving, and is in school to do it for a living. His fiance' loves him more than anything in this world and thanks you for everything everyone one that beach did to help rescue Josh.

My heartfelt prayers go out to Josh's friends, family, and his fiance. It was a tragic scene that took place at the beach, but you could see that she loved him incredibly and that is always comforting to know that he went with a loved one nearby. May he rest in peace.

[jim T.]

Thank you to Josh's friend and fiance' for making clear what happened in this unfortunate incident. It serves Josh's memory well in that it may help others to avoid making the same mistake(s) and save someone else's life before they even get into the water. Had Josh begun his professional training? Was it training for hard hat diving?

It is my (and other's) opinions that it seems that Josh was diving beyond his current level of ability and training and certainly for a solo dive. That seems to be the lesson and point(s) to be made to help others to avoid a similar and tragic fate.

Also sadly, it is incidents like this that give solo diving a bad name. With proper training, experience/lots of prior dives/ redundant equipment, many solo divers regularly execute safe solo dives. Sure there is an extra element of risk, but
not a universally unmanageable one. The last thing the newscaster on tv said was that this outlines the importance of diving with a partner/buddy.

A more pertinent message might have been and that the diver was likely not ready for or properly equipped for a solo dive.
I was glad to see Bob's comments here regarding solo dives.

We are all very sorry for the loss of your friend and fiance'. Please understand that the purpose of these threads is to analyze and opine about what caused and can be done to prevent similar accidents. Folks often forget that accidents put others at risk when they try to assist ,as well.
Sometimes people are harsh and
that is unfortunate but people often forget that the underwater environment can be harsh and staying within the level of one's current training and abilities is
the most important message that can be conveyed here as it commonly is in beginning Open Water cert training.

Please know that all of the families are in our hearts and minds and have our deepest sympathy. Please try not to be
too hurt or slighted if others comment and analyze. They are in the end, really trying to help prevent similar situations from happening to other's loved ones.

[quentusrex]

One thing to keep in mind, before talking about this divers skill is that he was at the surface, called for help, then went under before being brought up by jodomonk's dive buddy. It seems that there was an issue that impaired his diving abilities.

My heart goes out to those who knew and loved him.

[PuyallupCoug]

This was just posted on King5.com. Not much more info than the PI article though. My thoughts and prayers go out to Josh's family, especially his Fiance.



Man dies in diving accident in Elliott Bay | Top Stories | KING5.com | News for Seattle, Washington (http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_010608WAB_diver_death_SW.16f517e5.html)

[jim T.]

quentusrex, The current level of ability/training issues /opinions expressed were based on the issues of diving solo without redundancy and surfacing with a (reported) empty tank.
He may have been a skilled diver but standard solo protocols were apparently not followed based on the information presented thus far.
The blog entry sounded like it was from last Oct./Nov.? No year was
stated but it sounded like Josh was a fairly new diver?


Once again deepest appreciation to the the recovery divers and deepest sympathy to Josh's fiance', her family and his family.

[Gdog]

Heartfelt condolences to Josh's family and Fiance and friends. If there were anything I could say, it would be that at the very least, he died doing something he loved, not some other way. Again, my deepest sympathy.

[NWGratefulDiver]

But having a buddy willing and able to donate air would have made a difference...

I wouldn't assume that someone in distress will take a donated regulator.

The woman that Lamont and others attempted to rescue last year had a buddy who was willing, able, and trying to donate her reg. Sheryl refused to take it, and ended up embolizing.

I had to deal with a panicked diver underwater once ... and it wasn't anything like what we'd been led to expect in our training ... it was all I could do to keep him from drowning me, much less taking the reg I was trying to give him.

It's one thing to go out and practice OOA's with your dive buddies when everyone's expecting it and are calmly passing regulators back and forth. It's an entirely different matter trying to deal with someone who's on the verge of ... or beyond the point of ... panic. Sometimes even the best buddy in the world isn't going to make a difference. It really depends on the reactions of the diver in trouble.

The one thing we know about this incident is that Joshua was on the surface calling for help ... a rationally thinking diver would've been ditching weights at that point. Distress does that to people ... it causes the "flight" instinct to kick in, and the ability to think calmly and rationally goes out the window. In a diving situation that can be fatal.

A dive buddy, in a case like that, may not be able to help ... that's a reality the agencies don't like to talk about ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[LauraJ]

I am in agreement with Grateful Diver.

You can drill and drill, and train and train, but if someone has an underlying issue with panic attacks and anxiety, it will do next to no good. If anything, it may do harm by giving a false sense of security.

Instead of hammering on what this or that diver personally did wrong, perhaps we should look again at the bigger picture of increasingly foreshortened scuba classes and the industries push to certify anyone and everyone to dive as quickly and at as low a cost to the consumer as possible. Another very big concern to me (in a similar vein) is all the young kids being certified now (with the agencies dropping the cert. age lower and lower) who may or may not get any more training as they reach adulthood, instead saying "pfft.. I've been a diver for X number of years, why do I need more education".

Perhaps diving should go back to being somewhat cost prohibitive. Along the lines of Skydiving, where in reality, it costs you upwards of $3000 to actually be able to jump by yourself at the most basic level. (not counting all the gear you'll want to buy). Where does all that money go? Well, you have to have 25 jumps for your "A" license. Basically all of those jumps are with an instructor or coach. In addition, after you HAVE your license, you must log a jump every 30 days to remain current, and if you do not remain current, you pay extra for 'retraining' when you decide to jump again. I hear you all saying "well, skydiving is different! It's more dangerous! More things can go wrong!" Keep in mind what thread you are currently reading.

The diving industry needs to change its mentality.

I'm not mandating a DM sitting on the shore at cove 2 checking log books. My feeling is this, there will always be outliers on the bell curve. There will be a good number of people who are "safe enough", and some on either end (stellar at the end of 5 dives or a hazard to themselves or others) We as a community need to figure out a way to push the industry to give us a a training format that helps lessen the number of diving accidents that seems to be on an increasing trend despite the fact that very good gear is getting cheaper and cheaper. We need a paradigm shift. We need more "coaches". We need less "us" vs. "them" in the community regarding training agencies, CCR vs. open circuit, DIR vs. the world, Tech vs. Rec, etc... The diving 'world' is, in reality, very very small. We need to work together.

[TC]

Oh, bless the two of you for trying to help.

If he had any chance, it's because you were there. WHY do people dive alone?
Nice Job on the rescue guys.

There are many and varied reasons why people choose to solo dive. Did you want to start that discussion here?

[lamont]

one quibble:



The one thing we know about this incident is that Joshua was on the surface calling for help ... a rationally thinking diver would've been ditching weights at that point.

he could have had a CAGE and been fatally injured at that point though, and been justifiably beyond rationality...

still i agree with everything else...

[lamont]

why does our society view it as such a virtue to "face your fears"?

[TSandM]

I would like to hope that the Rescue training I got would help me figure out how to ditch my buddy's weights and keep him on the surface. But I guess it's the kind of thing you'll never know until you're in that situation, and I'd just as soon never be there.

[Kayla]

Just saw the story on the news tonight... training, speculations, and all else aside... There is a family missing their son, fiancee, friend, etc tonight... Sending my thoughts and prayers out. :hugs:

[rhadamantus]

same with Kayla... sending my thoughts and prayers, too. :hugs:

p.s. read the details about his u/w engagement proposal to his fiancee. :crying:

[Matt S.]

First of all, on topic, I am very sad to hear of our loss. I didn't know the diver but I guarantee any time I hear about a local death it makes me think, and I feel it a lot more than anything I am likely to see on the evening news.


...who may or may not get any more training as they reach adulthood, instead saying "pfft.. I've been a diver for X number of years, why do I need more education".

Training itself is, I think, a small part of the whole safety issue. Even if I took a safety class for a whole weekend every year... how much would that really help? And as you said, if you panic, training may not help much at all... the trick is to avoid those situations to start with, as much as is possible. There can always be a stray lightning bolt.

I think that the habits you learn from other divers, the drills that you do with them, and the skills that you pick up can be much more important than what you learn in a class you paid for.

I see driving as being like diving. Getting a license doesn't make you a good driver. Only YOU can make yourself into a good driver. If you don't put any effort into that, you may skate by your whole life without getting in trouble... Or, you may not. Taking more classes can help you down that road but it takes a personal commitment to really improve your skills. Being around people with the same commitment will help put you in the right mindset.

We need to maintain a culture of safety among all divers. By and large I think we do a good job at that, though there is room for improvement. Of course you can't make the proverbial horse drink, but if the attitude of the scuba community as a whole was a little more conservative, perhaps some divers who have had accidents would have instead realized that they were setting themselves up for trouble.

I don't know how to further advance the "culture of safety" though.

Just my two cents.

[Bobby Berenson]

Well, you did the best you can do, but he did not make it. Being in the medical field, all the heroics sometimes is not enough. From what I have read it sounds as though he had an anxiety attack and panicked. I could be wrong, but we'll never get the whole story either. As an Divemaster/ Assistant Instructor it would be nice if all the information is let out because hopefully information gained can possibly save a life in the future.

[gcbryan]

why does our society view it as such a virtue to "face your fears"?

So that we don't live our lives in fear? Granted if anxiety regarding diving is your fear solo diving isn't the best solution.

[lamont]

So that we don't live our lives in fear? Granted if anxiety regarding diving is your fear solo diving isn't the best solution.

I've got a fear of heights. I don't live my entire life in fear, I just don't go rock climbing or skydiving... That may seem like I'm limiting myself in terms of experiences, but I focus on the things that I can relax and enjoy, like diving in the caves in mexico, so I don't feel particularly limited...

[Gombessa]

I've got a fear of heights. I don't live my entire life in fear, I just don't go rock climbing or skydiving... That may seem like I'm limiting myself in terms of experiences, but I focus on the things that I can relax and enjoy, like diving in the caves in mexico, so I don't feel particularly limited...

If I had a fear of a particular African beetle that only exists in a 2-square mile radius in one part of Nigeria, I wouldn't feel particularly limited either. But some people have a fear of flying, or of public speaking, or normal social interaction, and they probably feel VERY limited.

Similarly, some people may be absolutely enthralled with marine life and environments, but have a fear of water or diving or small spaces (such as the tunnel-vision of a mask). These fears are not within the scope of normal daily life, but I'm sure you can see how someone in that position would feel particularly limited, and could like very much to face that fear.

Facing our fears is not just to avoid fear, but, if you'll excuse the schmaltz, is a very real way also to broaden our experiences and capabilities and to reach what we want in life.

I think you may be better off asking "why" some people want to face certain fears.

[lamont]

If I had a fear of a particular African beetle that only exists in a 2-square mile radius in one part of Nigeria, I wouldn't feel particularly limited either. But some people have a fear of flying, or of public speaking, or normal social interaction, and they probably feel VERY limited.


actually, i've got the first two of those as well -- fear of heights translates pretty well into fear of flying. worst way to die i can think of is falling out of the sky in an airliner...

people keep on trying to 'save' me from being an introvert as well, i wish they'd stop... can't we just be happy the way we are? why is it a sin if you aren't constantly trying to overcome your limitations?



Similarly, some people may be absolutely enthralled with marine life and environments, but have a fear of water or diving or small spaces (such as the tunnel-vision of a mask). These fears are not within the scope of normal daily life, but I'm sure you can see how someone in that position would feel particularly limited, and could like very much to face that fear.


okay, but why the riskiest way possible to heighten the fear and try to overcome it in order to intensify the situation? if i'm going to work on the fear of heights i'm not going to start out with basejumping to try to get over it... in fact, i know it would take me a lot more jumps than average to get to the point where i would skydive without paying someone else to pull my ripcord... you have to respect your fears even if you're going to try to confront them...

[NWGratefulDiver]

actually, i've got the first two of those as well -- fear of heights translates pretty well into fear of flying. worst way to die i can think of is falling out of the sky in an airliner...

people keep on trying to 'save' me from being an introvert as well, i wish they'd stop... can't we just be happy the way we are? why is it a sin if you aren't constantly trying to overcome your limitations?

You're an introvert? Seriously? I never noticed ... I thought you were just a typical geek ... :lotsalove:



okay, but why the riskiest way possible to heighten the fear and try to overcome it in order to intensify the situation? if i'm going to work on the fear of heights i'm not going to start out with basejumping to try to get over it... in fact, i know it would take me a lot more jumps than average to get to the point where i would skydive without paying someone else to pull my ripcord... you have to respect your fears even if you're going to try to confront them...
Some of the scariest moments I've had to date as a dive instructor were in an OW class dealing with a student who ... it turns out ... signed up because he wanted to overcome his fear of water. He didn't ... nor did he make it past the first pool session. I suggested to him that he sign up for swimming lessons, and come back when he had developed some in-water comfort. I never saw him again ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Desert Pirate]

You're an introvert? Seriously? I never noticed ... I thought you were just a typical geek ... :lotsalove:


Some of the scariest moments I've had to date as a dive instructor were in an OW class dealing with a student who ... it turns out ... signed up because he wanted to overcome his fear of water. He didn't ... nor did he make it past the first pool session. I suggested to him that he sign up for swimming lessons, and come back when he had developed some in-water comfort. I never saw him again ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
enlightning.. I have a friend who is terrrified of the water, but insists that If I take her she knows she can get over her fear..... I have been wondering if I take on the challenge, or what.. I agree facing fear is great, but there are ways to do it safley and make sure the odds are in your favor, base jumping, swallowing fire, diving solo whatever.. take precautions
Clay

[lamont]

You're an introvert? Seriously? I never noticed ... I thought you were just a typical geek ... :lotsalove:


yeah, i talk too damn much...

[TSandM]

If fear is keeping you from doing something you really want to do, or interfering with your normal daily function, you need to do something about it. Gradual desensitization is the thing the psychologists generally use, although I've found that, for me, with the fear I've had after accidents, sometimes just gutting through it a few times works a lot faster. But you have to know you're not prone to panic in order to do that, and it's pretty unpleasant.

The problem is that, if you push to the breaking point in fear and end up panicking, you can get badly hurt. That's true, whether you are diving or, in the example with which I have the most experience, riding horses. A panicked rider creates a panicked horse, and that's an accident almost certainly going to happen. In the water, a panicked diver IS the accident, but can draw another into his sphere and hurt them, too.

[Oside Jimc]

First of all I'm very sorry to hear about this tragic loss, my heartfelt sympathies go to the fiance and freinds of the deceased... RIP


if you panic, training may not help much at all...

I have been very grateful for the training I received during my diving class. I had the privilege to get my cert at the ripe old age of 15 from an instructor that was also an open water survival instructor for the Air Force. Along with the course dictated by PADI he also added his own regimen of "panic proofing". Putting us through (what at the time) seemed like sadistic torture in the pool to teach us how to keep our heads when the task load tried to overwhelm us. All the time telling us, "diving won't kill you, panic will". To get this training so young was such an awesome gift. It has assisted me throughout my life, both in and out of the water.

[LauraJ]

Instructors are not "allowed" (so to speak) to teach "those kind of courses" at the openwater level anymore. No hazing. No turning off of air. NO ripping regs out. NO ripping masks off. no simulated panic underwater coming at your student (or having your AI do it) in the middle of a checkout dive at a million miles and hour like an OOG diver and ripping the students reg out of their mouth and knocking their mask off in the process... And even if we were allowed, classes are too short to get to a point with your (well, mine were I teaching) students that an instructor would be comfortable doing some of the drills we used to do in the 'old days'.

An Open Water survival instructor in the Air Force (for the rest of the readers) means he was more than likely a SERE trainer. Those guys are the badasses of the AF. Yanno, the ones who teach POW school and such. The likelyhood of him teaching you a watered down basic scuba class is next to nil. I'm gonna guess he was a fairly thorough instructor taught you well beyond the standard standards.. You were indeed lucky.


First of all I'm very dorry to hear about this tragic loss, my heartfelt sympathies go to the fiance and freinds of the deceased... RIP



I have been very grateful for the training I received during my diving class. I had the privilege to get my cert at the ripe old age of 15 from an instructor that was also an open water survival instructor for the Air Force. Along with the course dictated by PADI he also added his own regimen of "panic proofing". Putting us through (what at the time) seemed like sadistic torture in the pool to teach us how to keep our heads when the task load tried to overwhelm us. All the time telling us, "diving won't kill you, panic will". To get this training so young was such an awesome gift. It has assisted me throughout my life, both in and out of the water.

[lamont]

anyone found word from the medical examiner's office?

[JackConnick]

Ditto for me on the NAUI Openwater training I received in 1969. It gave me tons of confidence and knowlege about myself.

I cannot understand why training someone about panic in a safe environment like a pool is considered such a problem. Yet they panic when the cold water hits their nose during open water mask don/doff and bolt to the surface...

I doubt you'll hear any more details on this unless the family releases them. The medical Examiner's office will only release them to the family, AFAIK.

Jack

[PaulSmithTek]

My Condolences to the family and friends. It is hard to see a fellow diver pass away doing what he loved. What else can I say but I am so dearly sorry.

[diver12345]

Wrong! Just plain wrong.:shakehead: $$$ Has nothing to do with ones ability to scuba dive. People with false information who spout it out as truth are more dangerous than the diver that knows he/she knows nothing. One tandem jump and now you are the expert??? By the way the SERE trainers are Pararescue guys. Survival,Escape,Resistance, and Escape is what they teach. WTF?:lotsalove: Been there done that.

Perhaps diving should go back to being somewhat cost prohibitive. Along the lines of Skydiving, where in reality, it costs you upwards of $3000 to actually be able to jump by yourself at the most basic level. (not counting all the gear you'll want to buy). Where does all that money go? Well, you have to have 25 jumps for your "A" license. Basically all of those jumps are with an instructor or coach. In addition, after you HAVE your license, you must log a jump every 30 days to remain current, and if you do not remain current, you pay extra for 'retraining' when you decide to jump again. I hear you all saying "well, skydiving is different! It's more dangerous! More things can go wrong!" Keep in mind what thread you are currently reading.

[pala74]

I created an account to thank you personally, "jodomonk", for your help in trying to save my cousin Josh last Saturday afternoon. I know you and those around you did the best you could and his family thanks you. He will be missed greatly. If you all got to know him, his smile, wit and passion for life would have impressed upon you as well. Please be safe, divers. I don't know what happened with Josh, or why things in this life happen as they do...but tell the people around you you love them often and be safe. God Bless, Tracy

[jodomonk]

I created an account to thank you personally, "jodomonk", for your help in trying to save my cousin Josh last Saturday afternoon. I know you and those around you did the best you could and his family thanks you. He will be missed greatly. If you all got to know him, his smile, wit and passion for life would have impressed upon you as well. Please be safe, divers. I don't know what happened with Josh, or why things in this life happen as they do...but tell the people around you you love them often and be safe. God Bless, Tracy

Tracy, our prayers are with you and your family. Fortunately, the passing of your cousin Josh serves to reinforce to both new divers (such as myself) and old ones as well the importance of maintaining up to date and in depth knowledge of dive safety as well as the importance of constantly monitoring all the different aspects of your dive and never becoming complacent. God bless Josh, his fiance, and your whole family.