So What's Wrong With Mail Order?
Ordering products to be received through the mail has long been a valuable part of our economic distribution system. From the days when a farmer would order seeds from a catalog to today's toll-free numbers, fax and internet orders, mail order has served us well, especially for specialty and hard-to-get items. In remote areas, mail order is sometimes the only viable alternative. But when it comes to scuba life-support equipment, mail order is on very shaky ground.
Consider this: Two years ago we tested the five best private-label mail-order regulators. None of the five was recommended for purchase. We pointed out that several name-brand regulators, previously selected as Tester's Choices and Best Buys, were available at dive stores in the same price range as mail-order regs.
Same for the BCs tested here. Even if these six were offered for sale in a professional dive store, they would still be substandard. But in that same dive store, you could find BCs that have made our Tester's Choice and Best Buy lists in the same price range as these mail-order ones.
Ok, is this article just hogwash or am I missing something?
Why would a product purchased mail-order be any different than one from an LDS?
MechDiver
January 29th, 2003, 02:04 PM
The article is talking about private label items that you cannot get in a LDS, primarily because, as the article again states, they are junk.
There is no difference between mainstream goods purchased mail order and the same items in an LDS, other than warrenty in some cases.
MD
ckharlan66
January 29th, 2003, 02:05 PM
They seem to be referring to products that are only available through mail order. Not the manufactures that are being sold through both.
Or am I misunderstanding it?
Chad
metridium
January 29th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Shame their scaremongering tactics didn't involve testing my 'mail-order' Halcyon BP/wings, or my 'mail-order' Apeks regs, or my 'mail-order' DUI drysuit.
:rolleyes:
Their choice of terms leaves a lot to be desired.
gfisher4792
January 29th, 2003, 02:14 PM
I definitely consider mail order/online purchases a viable option. With that in mind, I would rather purchase the critical life support gear (BC, reg, etc.) from an LDS. Cons: More expense, wait longer to afford desired gear. Pros: Peace of mind, doing my little part to support the LDS.
With all other support gear (clips, slate, etc.), I'm pretty much dealing out my cash online, and in the long run, I figure I save a ton of money anyway.
However, I know a lot of people who have purchased regs and bc's online and not one has had trouble with theirs.
ElectricZombie
January 29th, 2003, 02:25 PM
The article is correct in that most "off brand" BCs are probably junk. I would not buy any piece of gear that I had never heard of via mail order.
The debate isn't mail order vs. LDS, it's junk gear vs. quality gear.
leadweight
January 29th, 2003, 02:39 PM
One could reasonably draw the conclusion that the issue is quality gear vs private label junk. However, the tone of the article definitely was intended to condemn mail order sales.
I suspect that the reviewers were intentionally hard on everything to boot.
Things have changed since that article was written. Some legitimate manufacturers (Scubapro and Aqualung) have become strident about prohibiting mail order sales while others, particularly in the tech diving area, have embraced it.
gfisher4792
January 29th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Yes, it's funny how in their review section, all of the BC's listed are private "junk" bc's that any self respecting diver wouldn't want to use; but on the opening page, they have an random list of name brand BC's, to draw the reader into thinking that the article reviewed good brand BC's that they got through the mail.
norcaldiver
January 29th, 2003, 02:55 PM
I thought it was pretty cut and dry.
We ordered the six best private-label jacket-style BCs from the six leading mail-order discount catalogs.
and
BC'ing you? Not with any of these six private-label BCs available through mail-order, we hope.
Then if you click on the BCs in review link, the 1st thing listed is the BCs in review...
Berry Scuba Traveler
Divers Discount Supply Ocean Quest Pro
Divers Supply Sea Elite Quest Plus
Leisure Pro Blue Reef Admiral
Mr. Diver Pro Duck Black Shadow
Performance Diver Solace Pro
Weird, but then again, I just read it for what it is, and don't try to read into everything..especially scubalab results.
OglalaDiver
January 29th, 2003, 03:03 PM
I didnt get out of the article that it was the mail-order process of buying gear that was bad, but the gear that is available only through mail-order, i.e., private label gear thats bad. You can order ScubaPro, Aqua-lung, whatever name brand gear through the mail and be fine. Its the stuff like.."Bob's Regulators" or "Joe's SCUBA Manufacturing" that they are talking about.
Popeye
January 29th, 2003, 03:45 PM
QKRTHNU once bubbled...
http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/mailorderBCs/
Ok, is this article just hogwash or am I missing something?
Why would a product purchased mail-order be any different than one from an LDS?
Any product review in Rodale's should be taken with a grain of salt. A big one.
While I can't speak to the individual BCs listed, Sea Elite makes as good or better BC as any on the market, for half the price.
That's the first BC that I ever had (and the last), and the only reason I'm not still diving it is because I switched to a BP/W. I'm still using the wing, it'll break 1000 dives this year. The construction and stitching on this BC is bulletproof. The only thing that ever failed on it was mesh pocket, and that was late in it's life.
I worked for Diver's Supply in 98-99, and we never had any problems with this gear.
This is a modular BC, with the best intergrated weight system made (velcro bottom drop), and took a miraculous beating the entire time I used it.
It I ever buy another BC, it'll be a Sea Elite.
As far as mail order goes, some mail order places are chain stores as well, not all mail order places are the same.
cyklon_300
January 29th, 2003, 04:11 PM
My very FIRST online purchaseas a private label BC that looked great in the ad and was a steal price-wise. There were lots of 'testimonials' on the web site claiming that it outperformed every other BC, regardless of price...I was strapped for cash and thought I'd found a bargain.
When it arrived, it was the cheesiest piece of crap I've ever seen. The bladder cover was windbreaker-strength nylon and the velcro cumberbund would pop open with no effort required.
The mfg tag was written in Chinese.
Thankfully I bought it with a major credit card and they voided the transaction when the distributor said he'd take it back but assess me a 'service charge' for returning it. I felt like a dolt afterwards, but learned a good lesson.
The name-brand equip I've purchased online since then has all been great, no problems.
Goeduck
January 29th, 2003, 07:34 PM
Ever watch those late night TV infomercials?
"Not available at any store, so......buy it here"
That should be clue number one.
QKRTHNU
January 29th, 2003, 08:58 PM
Thanks, I was missreading the article.
djhall
January 29th, 2003, 10:59 PM
This really shouldn't be any surprise. It is easier to pass of junk as decent product when the customer can't see the item before they buy it. I think everyone would be a little skeptical of any no-name product that claimed to deliver better quality at half the price of leading manufacturers, but was only available via mail-order and not in stores. Why should dive gear be any different?
On the other hand, new name brand products are the same wherever you buy them. Whether you buy them at K-Mart, Target, Macys, or online, Levis 501s are all the same.
Lead_carrier
January 30th, 2003, 11:49 AM
Popeye once bubbled...
Any product review in Rodale's should be taken with a grain of salt. A big one.
While I can't speak to the individual BCs listed, Sea Elite makes as good or better BC as any on the market, for half the price.
All the reviews can be taken with a grain of salt but before you down play Rodales too much Popeye, check and see how many of these manufacturers filed grievances or lawsuits against Rodales.
I also know a few people that work for Diver's Supply, I asked them one day why they didn't dive their house brand of equipment. All I got was a sly grin and you've got to be kidding.
Popeye
January 30th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Lead_carrier once bubbled...
All the reviews can be taken with a grain of salt but before you down play Rodales too much Popeye, check and see how many of these manufacturers filed grievances or lawsuits against Rodales.
What would they file against, and what good would it do them?
It's all opinion.
Lead_carrier once bubbled...
I also know a few people that work for Diver's Supply, I asked them one day why they didn't dive their house brand of equipment. All I got was a sly grin and you've got to be kidding.
Couple things here..
First off, you're taking anecdotal opinions from someone who sells dive gear they consider to be poor quality to unsuspecting consumers (quite a harbinger), and,
Let's hear what they have to say after 500+ dives in that gear, instead of never having dived it at all.
Sea Elite manifolds, for instance, are argualby the best made.
Sea Elite drysuits have a good reputation.
Sea Elite regs are SP knock offs, with interchangable parts (at least mine are).
I'm over 800 dives on Sea Elite stuff, and have no complaints.
I don't expect the same performance from an item that costs half the going rate. When I get it, it's worth mentioning.
This is a modular BC, with the best intergrated weight system made (velcro bottom drop
Having velcro and weight system in the same sentance is IMO very very bad.
Popeye
January 30th, 2003, 05:15 PM
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Having velcro and weight system in the same sentance is IMO very very bad.
I coudn't imagine why. The design is (suspiciously) identicle to the Transpac pockets linked below, and I've never seen a better system. Certainly not one with clips, pouches and/or cables (ACBs, for instance).
5 years of heavy usage without a single problem, at times with 14 lbs per pocket.
The only reason I'm not still using them is because I switched to smaller pockets.
Of course, the user has to be able to operate velcro... :-)
quote:
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Popeye once bubbled...
I have one of Rodale's poorly rated mail-order BCs(Blue Reef Admiral) and a highly rated BC(IDI Advantage).
I have dove the Blue Reef for 10 years. It is a great BC-especially for pittance I paid for it. It shows almost no sign of wear, has a great tank holder and has never failed.
On the other hand, the Advantage is the most awkward, cumbersome thing I have donned. The "Torso Rail System" is hocus-pocus. The sytem implies that you can adjust the length of the torso-it is patially true. You can adjust the length but if the length is short you had better wear a helmet because the tank will be banging you on the head.
Best bet is a backplate.
KZMAN
February 1st, 2003, 05:17 AM
Goeduck once bubbled...
Ever watch those late night TV infomercials?
"Not available at any store, so......buy it here"
That should be clue number one.
Amen
dmdalton
February 1st, 2003, 11:16 AM
The magazine doesn't tell you about the name brand products you can buy mailorder. Buy name brand via mail, no problem. In the last 7 years, I've purchased 7 regulators, 4 wings, 4 packplates, 5 sets of fins, 4 masks all via mail order. No problems with any of it, all name brand.
Why, the LDS do not offer the products or service I would like so I go elsewhere and don't rely on them, for anything including gas/air.
