Dive Assure New Price Increase

[gp51]

It is currently time for me to renew my 1 year, multi-trip, Daimond 7500 policy with Dive Assure. When I called today to inquire about my renewal, I was quoted a price almost 3X what it was previously ($310 vs $810). The coverage was the same. What gives??? GP

[gp51]

A gentleman named Ryan from Dive Assure called me this morning. He said he saw my post on this board but wanted to answer my question personally, therefore chose not to reply to this thread. Ryan would not answer my question directly (why this year's rate had nearly tripled over last year's). He spoke in generalities, not speciifics. He said AIG's rates had gone up (obviously), Dive Assure still offers the most coverage for the least amount of money (questionable) and I could always reduce my coverage to the Gold and Platinum programs if I wanted to save money. Not really the specific answers I was hoping for. Look, I don't fault any company for wanting to make money. A company won't stay in business long if it doesn't. However, if a client calls and wants to find out why his dive insurance premium is nearly tripling in cost, I would hope that company would offer more to their customer than "rates have gone up". I encouraged Ryan/Dive Assure to reconsider their position and post an answer on this board. Hopefully they will do so. GP (for the record, I bought my Dive Assure policy on 1-25-07 and have never filed a claim against them).

[awap]

Please let us know what you learn as you continue to look into this. Have you checked to see what comparable coverage from DAN would cost?

[Daxter]

I had the same reaction last year when I renewed. Had to think long and hard what I really needed for coverage. I still use Dive Assure but it was hard to see that big of a rate increase.

[BTravlin]

They say rates have gone up. Granted, that's a large increase but what exactly do you want them to tell you? Exactly how their business operates and how rates are determined? What difference does it make why they went up? It is what it is so now you have to decide whether you want to renew or shop for alternatives.

[catherine96821]

Well, I guess I won't renew.

I changed over from DAN because it was a better value for the dollar...now it is not.

[kgdiver]

Is Dive Assure that worth that much extra over DAN? Those prices seems really high

[AlaskaDiver]

Interesting.. I renewed last September but did not notice a price increase. I'm not certain when it went into effect. I originally chose to go with Dive Assure rather than DAN since DAN did not cover Alaska policies at the time. I believe they do now. My main concern with regard to the dive insurance is not only how I am covered in an accident, but also how my equipment is covered. I could not find a comparable coverage with DAN - especially for equipment loss. I have no allegiance to either DAN or Dive Assure, but I too want the best value. I am very much interested in hearing what transpires between you and Dive Assure.

[Clearwater]

We renewed in October also and I didn't notice much of an increase, certainly not treblefold. But we're at the platinum level, not diamond, so that may be the big difference. I did not see where the higher level would give me anything I don't already have with various insurance policies I have, including that offered by major credit cards...I just want a good level of dive insurance.

[Web Monkey]

It is currently time for me to renew my 1 year, multi-trip, Daimond 7500 policy with Dive Assure. When I called today to inquire about my renewal, I was quoted a price almost 3X what it was previously ($310 vs $810). The coverage was the same. What gives??? GP

Not sure what you're insuring here.

If it's equipment, your Homeowner's Insurance company will generally sell you a "Sporting Goods Rider" for very little money. I think I pay about $50/year to cover all my SCUBA stuff.

If it's medical insurance, even the most expensive DAN plan is less than $200 for a family membership.

Terry

[DiveAssure]

Hello GP51,

DiveAssure encourages members to contact the customer service call center and receive personal attention focusing on the member's individual questions and requirements. We feel that the discussions we attend in the forum should be used for issues that are of interest to the general diving public.

To the point you raised; our rates and programs were indeed updated effective July 1st 2007. The price update was in most cases negligible – The rates we charge for our Gold and Platinum remained the same whereas our Diamond program is now underwritten on an entirely different basis. For single trip coverage the Diamond has gone up by 10%-15% or even less. Rates for Multi-trip coverage are now indeed more expensive. However, this program is still extremely attractive to those planning more than one dive trip in a year

This price update was the first one since DiveAssure started in 2002 and was absolutely necessary. Moreover, DiveAssure still offers the best diving accident and dive-travel protection programs at very competitive rates.

DiveAssure offers the only primary diving accident coverage and dive-travel protection, and the Diamond program is the only program to offer both medical and trip protection all in one comprehensive program. The Diamond Multi-trip is the only multi trip dive-travel program.

For specific inquires please don’t hesitate to contact our support team at toll free 866-898-0921 Ext 1, or via email at info.usa@diveassure.com (info.usa@diveassure.com)

[gp51]

There have been some interesting posts to this thread in the last 24 hours. Hopefully, Dive Assure will engage in this thread and address some of our comments.

I buy dive insurance for two main reasons (medical and trip cancellation/interuption). Although equipment coverage can be important, it is not my main reason for buying insurance. I use to buy a Travelguard policy for each trip I went on. After a while, that became a real pain. That is one of the reasons I switched over to Dive Assure. I could buy an annual policy instead of a new policy for each trip. Another reason I switched to DA was because if anything went wrong, I only had to deal with one insurance carrier, not multiple. But the main reason I switched to DA was their price. To pay $310/year for great coverage for any dive trip I went in 2007 was great. It was a no brainer. DA still offers great coverage and if you go on 4 or more trips a year, it's still pretty much of a no brainer, even at $810 per year. The real question comes when you don't take 4 or more trips per year, the math changes and DA does not look as inviting as it once did. In my case, I have company health insurance through Anthem Blue Cross. In checking with them, I am covered for any accident I have (diving or non-diving, in-country or out-of-country). My dedectibles might be higher if I am out of the country but the majority of my bills will be covered. By purchasing a DAN policy (secondary coverage, $25-$70 per year), the deductibles that Anthem doesn't pay should be covered by DAN.

As someone mentioned in an earlier post, equipment loss should be covered under your homeowner's policy (less the deductible). Again, if you purchased a DAN policy, those deductibles not covered by your homeowner's policy should be covered by DAN.

Trip cancellation/interuption insurance can be purchased from a variety of carriers, including DAN, with the policy cost depending on the cost of the trip.

In my case, I have 2 dive trips planned for 2008. Because of their new pricing structure, Dive Assure's new rate on their Daimond 7500 policy does not look as inviting as it did last year. I can purchase roughly the same coverage for less money by going through DAN and Travelguard, as long as I don't mind dealing with multiple carriers if something goes wrong.

I've enjoyed really all the posts on this thread. It's been enlightening.

Be safe in 2008................GP.

[catherine96821]

Well, primary insurance costs will be higher than secondary, because they would not have to pay as often, right? (they pay the gap)

[DandyDon]

We've been waiting for several weeks for them to address the questions here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dive-assure/205416-what-do-you-provide.html

I don't think they want to spend time here. Seems like maybe they just want the free advertising...?

[catherine96821]

yea, Don

sophisticated consumers are bad news for insurance companies. I plan to dump mine and take my chances, most companies weazle out of paying if they can anyway. I know you are a DAN fan, I might take a fresh look at that. Too bad there is no "Consumer Reports of Scuba Businesses"....Undercurrent, do they review these companies?

[Underwater Adventures]

Just know you are not alone in your search for another insurance carrier. I too was taken aback when we called Dive Assure to renew our staff Diamond policy for this year and was quoted a price more than twice as last year! I actually called back to cancel my policy until I can investigate my options...if anyone has some options please post so we can all choose the best provider for our needs.

[DandyDon]

yea, Don

sophisticated consumers are bad news for insurance companies. I plan to dump mine and take my chances, most companies weazle out of paying if they can anyway. I know you are a DAN fan, I might take a fresh look at that. Too bad there is no "Consumer Reports of Scuba Businesses"....Undercurrent, do they review these companies?
I do like DAN, at least for Dive Insurance. I am no authority, but mostly I do like to encourage newbies, vacation divers, and others who might try to bluff thru diving without it to get it early and keep it. In only 351 dives I have seen 6 others leave by ambulance, 2 of whom were air evaced to the US. I also encourage calling them early...

It is good that DAN has competition, but it has to be good competition. ;)

[fdog]

Well. I caught this thread, and immediately went to see what Janet & I would pay to renew our Diamond ( w/ trip insurance) coverage.

Sure enough, it's up $200 total, or, $100 per person. As Catherine said, it's all about value. Considering that the trip insurance portion is good for the whole year, it's worth it for us; otherwise the trip insurance would run us about $1500 total over 2008.


All the best, James

[DandyDon]

Their multi-trip coverage does sound appealing, but I got to wonder about the big jump on GP's rates.
Well. I caught this thread, and immediately went to see what Janet & I would pay to renew our Diamond ( w/ trip insurance) coverage.

Sure enough, it's up $200 total, or, $100 per person. As Catherine said, it's all about value. Considering that the trip insurance portion is good for the whole year, it's worth it for us; otherwise the trip insurance would run us about $1500 total over 2008.

All the best, James
I used your state and age from your profile. I don't know her age, but doesn't seem to matter in your range. For a new policy. Not bad, but different - and I got to wonder what will happen next...?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/dandydon-2/Dec%2007/Screen01-1.jpg


Then I checked on Texas for me at my age. Again, appealing, but what would they do to me next year...?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/dandydon-2/Dec%2007/Screen02-2.jpg

It might be worth it to try for a year. I can always go back to DAN if they hit me with a big increase.

Except it would not let me plug in a Single Trip coverage rate? I got to wonder about that, too...??

[fdog]

<snip>- and I got to wonder what will happen next...?<snip>
Indeed an excellent point, Don. I guess Janet and I will have to make our decisions year by year.

BTW, Janet will be tickled pink by the age you put in for her!


All the best, James

[catherine96821]

In only 351 dives I have seen 6 others leave by ambulance, 2 of whom were air evaced to the US. gee, who are you hanging out with Don? ;)

fdog, you make me want to look closer at the trip insurance portion. Has anybody collected on that?

[scubamickey]

Except it would not let me plug in a Single Trip coverage rate? I got to wonder about that, too...??

Try it again. Without putting in how much single trip protection you want you won't get a good quote. I put in just $2500 for each of us (we're 41 and 43) and the total jumped to bout $485.

I have DAN preferred and usually take out trip insurance for any big trip. To cover a $6000 trip to the Caribbean in June, CSA Travel only charges me about $180 or so. It's about 3% of the total amount. So CSA plus DAN comes out to about $350.

Both they and DAN are secondary but my BC/BS covers us oversees. I'm kind of over insured, actually. I would prefer DiveAssure just to have the primary coverage and not have to deal with coordination of benefits and fights over who will pay what. But that $100+ savings every year might be worth it.

DiveAssure's equipment coverage doesn't impress me. It only covers problems during a trip. I have DEPP and they cover for just about any reason. Although the premium is about $400 for us. My homeowners (State Farm) isn't going to cover an act of stupidity or my dive light flooding on a trip I think.

This shouldn't be so difficult....I might just start taking chances and not do the trip insurance. I've never needed to cancel a trip and we are both in perfect health with no family history of anything.

[DandyDon]

Try it again. Without putting in how much single trip protection you want you won't get a good quote. I put in just $2500 for each of us (we're 41 and 43) and the total jumped to bout $485.

:mad: Arrrg! Sites that don't work correctly on Firefox should put up a big banner saying "We know that Firefox is a superior browser, but you can't use it here...!"

I know that if you use a low "per trip" cost and have a claim on a more expensive trip then you lose part of the claim. If I use $3,000 on the two examples above (increase the wife's age a few years, but it doesn't seem to matter in that range), the rates go up a lot...

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/dandydon-2/Dec%2007/Screen02-3.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/dandydon-2/Dec%2007/Screen01-2.jpg

Put me down as "Not buying!"

I have DAN preferred and usually take out trip insurance for any big trip. To cover a $6000 trip to the Caribbean in June, CSA Travel only charges me about $180 or so. It's about 3% of the total amount. So CSA plus DAN comes out to about $350.
Yeah, you'd have to use $6,000 for the entire year. :11:
Both they and DAN are secondary but my Aetna covers us oversees. I'm kind of over insured, actually. I would prefer DiveAssure just to have the primary coverage and not have to deal with coordination of benefits and fights over who will pay what. But that $100+ savings every year might be worth it.
My medical does not cover me internationally, and I just would not want to claim on my homeowners!
DiveAssure's equipment coverage doesn't impress me. It only covers problems during a trip. I have DEPP and they cover for just about any reason. Although the premium is about $400 for us. My homeowners (State Farm) isn't going to cover an act of stupidity or my dive light flooding on a trip I think.

This shouldn't be so difficult....I might just start taking chances and not do the trip insurance. I've never needed to cancel a trip and we are both in perfect health with no family history of anything.
DON'T DO THAT! Trip insurance is cheap compared to the risk.

I do want to talk with DAN about Traveler's Assist which is included in DAN dive insurance. You are not covered for medical on a trip, but if they will fly you back...??

[jim T.]

I have the platinum plan. I don't completely trust my health insurance plan company so I don't mind having a 2nd primary plan with Dive Assure as additional.... insurance :-)
I have gotten good specific replies from their customer service BUT i've asked on SB on other threads over the past couple of years if anyone here has gone to a chamber and/or been flown back to the U.S. for treatment on a Dive Assure plan, especially the platinum. So far no replies.

[DandyDon]

I've seen two divers flown back to Florida... :11:

[scubamickey]

You're right about the trip insurance Don. I'll still get it, but every year I go through this phase where I get cheap and don't want to pay an extra $200 for trip insurance. That's 4 tank dives!

I don't want to rely on Blue Cross actually paying out in a timely manner but that's my primary insurance and unless I want to pay through the nose to DiveAssure I will have to trust BC/BS to take care of things. I'm actually not too worried. They have an extensive website just on international coverage and where to go. They also state that if if your travel location doesn't have a PPO hospital or if that hospital can't treat you, they will still cover you. Albeit at an out of network rate. So DAN will step in at that time.

Plus, there are some reasonably priced trip insurance that are primary.

[fdog]

gee, who are you hanging out with Don? ;)

fdog, you make me want to look closer at the trip insurance portion. Has anybody collected on that?

Sorry about the late reply, Catherine. No, I haven't met anybody personally that has used the travel insurance portion. I have had experience with AIG insurance, and it was hassle-free; the check arrived at the speed of sound.

Something that's being overlooked here is the travel insurance is for the whole year. It covers every dive trip you take. Even driving to the coast is a covered trip.

If you travel a lot, this is a no-brainer. With typical per-trip insurance, Janet and I would have a bill of ~$1500, plus dive insurance ($200).

Our plan is the Diamond with Trip coverage for $3000 each. Last year this was about $550 for the both of us, and this year it'll be about $750. Yes, it's an increase, but it's not double, and it's still a good economic decision for us, so we'll take it.

You have to look at it from your own economics.


All the best, James



PS - although this conversation is about DiveAssure and their rate increase for Trip Insurance, there is another side of it: it would take an awful lot to change my mind about the (follow this link, it's worth it) sad history of DAN and it's insurance scandal (http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A18882).

[DandyDon]

Peter Bennett was indeed a serious problem and expensive to exorcise from DAN. I believe that he, his family, and his associates are all removed completely now, aren't they?

[bobmaggi]

Just my 2 cents worth. I was in a dive accident in Aug.'05, spent time in a chamber, 12 days in ICU w/ pneumonia ( 16 days in hospital total). Recovered completely. The total medical bill was~ $85-90,000, which included 3 hour ambulance ride to where DAN told 1st ER/trauma room to take me to chamber/hospital. Plus this luckily was one of the best hospitals around. I was unconscious for 12 days,most of that in a medically induced coma to help me heal from the pneumonia. We have excellent medical insurance thru my husband's job. We also have the DAN preferred. DAN covered all of the payments the other insurance wouldn't-deductibles, copays, etc., which was ~$5-6000. They also paid for my drysuit which had to be cut off of me. They would have paid for more, but we just didn't claim it(weekend dive trip interrupted/cancelled, husband's lodging while I was in hospital, etc). Out of this big bill, we paid ~$100 of it. Sure, there was the hassle of sending the copies of the bills to DAN, and the hassles of the bills crossing in the mail, and the phone calls about them, and all. Sure, DAN was a bit slow, their claims take 30-40 days to pay. But you know what, that $184 was the some of the best $ we ever spent, and we are satisfied w/ them. We only had to fill out the main accident claim ONCE.

We usually go on 1-2 big trips/year, not counting our 3 weeks in Maui ( where we can change plans on our own). We usually only have used the trip insurance for the summer trips-Bahama liveaboards-(where weather could be a problem)

After reading all this about DiveAssure, I am not convinced I would want to go w/ them now.. . . we already have good primary medical insurance.

Just my 2 cents worth. Maggi

ps. while I was in the hospital w/ accident stated above, Bob kept you all informed, in Aug. 2005. All of you were very supportive of him and prayers for me. Thanks again. Maggi:)

[scubamickey]

Maggi: Thanks for the info. Nothing beats first hand information.

Where were you when you had your accident? In the US or overseas?

[DandyDon]

Maggi: Thanks for the info. Nothing beats first hand information.

Where were you when you had your accident? In the US or overseas?
See: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/109669-diver-accident-michigan.html from 2005

[bobmaggi]

thanks for bringing that old thread up, dandy don. . . We all are so blessed to have this scubaboard, it is so nice to know that you all cared and were praying for me. That just gives me goosebumps every time I read it. On the previous post I just wanted to give our thumbs up to DAN. We have been very satisfied w/ them and I just wanted to share. Hope it helps someone. You all are wonderful! Thanks! Take care, Maggi :)

[DandyDon]

thanks for bringing that old thread up, dandy don. . . We all are so blessed to have this scubaboard, it is so nice to know that you all cared and were praying for me. That just gives me goosebumps every time I read it. On the previous post I just wanted to give our thumbs up to DAN. We have been very satisfied w/ them and I just wanted to share. Hope it helps someone. You all are wonderful! Thanks! Take care, Maggi :)
Yeah, the purpose of that forum is to learn from the accidents of others, but we do care about other divers even when we didn't know them, and to have Bob come to us with y'all's story was touching. I well remember the joy we shared when he continued to post and you started to recover.

[westladog]

I have one of those new high deductible medical plan where I have to pay out of pocket of about $4000 before the medical kicks in at 100%. If I get DAN, would DAN pick up the $4000?

Typically, my medical plan allows me to contribute up to $6000 (pretax) to a savings account. This account is only used for medical expenses. This plan does not take money out of my paycheck at all but it requires me to pay for the first $4200 before the plan pays 100%.

So would DAN pay the $4200 since it's secondary?

[westladog]

By the way, why pay up the nose for trip insurance with Dive Assure? Do you really need it? The important thing here is the dive insurance.

[DandyDon]

I have one of those new high deductible medical plan where I have to pay out of pocket of about $4000 before the medical kicks in at 100%. If I get DAN, would DAN pick up the $4000?

Typically, my medical plan allows me to contribute up to $6000 (pretax) to a savings account. This account is only used for medical expenses. This plan does not take money out of my paycheck at all but it requires me to pay for the first $4200 before the plan pays 100%.

So would DAN pay the $4200 since it's secondary?
DAN will pay what your Medical insurance does not; how your Cafeteria plan interracts, I wouldn't know. Many medical policies have exclusions for location or activity, and DAN will guarantee payments or even wire money if required before treatment - something nice to count on if your sucking oxygen but really need to be inside a chamber for example.

Ever seen anyone leave a dive in an ambulance? I have seen too many.
By the way, why pay up the nose for trip insurance with Dive Assure? Do you really need it? The important thing here is the dive insurance.
I get trip insurance for international trips mostly because my medical insurance will not cover me and non diving illnesses can happen, but also for the property insurance, trip cancelation, trip interruption, extra evacuation expenses.

Ever had to evacuate before a Cat-5 hurricane hit? I have. Some in my group did not have trip insurance and paid dearly to leave.
Do you know that the airline is only liable for $9.07 per pound on lost or damaged luggage on most international trips, and many have exclusions for sporting equipment.