My (our) First Regulator setup ...

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Riger

Contributor
Messages
424
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5
Location
Dubai
# of dives
50 - 99
Hello all,

My Wife and I recently (Dec 07) completed our PADI OW and made a subsequent 10 dives each.

We are now busy doing research for our kit and intend to make the "plunge" (financially speaking) in the next week or two.

Here is our present configuration (but subject to change based on comment);

1st Stage : ScubaPro MK21
2nd Stage : ScubaPro R395
Alternate : AIR 2
SPG : Jury is still out on what exactly to use as we anticipate using transmitters after about 30-50 Dives.

If you have any comment regarding this setup, I would appreciate your input. Of particular interest to me is the concept of giving the Primary 2nd Stage to the OOA buddy and using the AIR 2 as a temporary Primary.

Your thoughts/comments appreciated.

Best Regards
Riger
 
Riger;

Congrats on the OW! Unfortunately, I can't help on the SP regs. I don't know diddly-squat about them. What I would reccomend is looking into a "long hose" set up, so that your primary hose is on a 7' hose, and your octo is on a 22'' or 24'' hose, bungied around your neck. In an OOA situation, you give your buddy your primary, and you use the octo bungied around your neck. Do a search, it'll give you a lot of results.

I personally am not a fan of using the "Air 2" style system. The though of an ascent with my buddy on my primary reg, me breathing of my corrugated hose, and trying to dump air as I ascend all at the same time just doesn't work in my head.

Danny
 
Riger;


I personally am not a fan of using the "Air 2" style system. The though of an ascent with my buddy on my primary reg, me breathing of my corrugated hose, and trying to dump air as I ascend all at the same time just doesn't work in my head.

Danny

Id have to agree...Im my opinion a seperate hose and octi (std legnth or long) I think would be much better in an emergency....again in MY opinion.

On the SPG they all pretty much do the same job, again MY opinion Im not sure Id be spending the not insignificant amount of money buying a computer with a transmitter this early in your diving life and even if you did I would still rec using an SPG as redundant anyway, electronics do fail..Id rec spending the money on other cool dive gear perhaps a good dive light if you plan on doing any night diving for example.

Congrats on OW not sure either about the Regs never used, I use Aqualung Micra Adj and like it fine....goodluck:wink:
 
I dive with a SP MK17 first stage and a SP S555 as my primary on a 7' hose and a R395 as my back up second stage (not an octo).

Here are the pictures of my setup. (You will the the R395 has a bungee on it. Look here for instructions on setting it up.)

This set up allows you to give your buddy (anyone) your primary reg in an OOG situation. You want to give them a reg that you and they KNOW works. You will still have 60+ second to get your backup into your mouth. If it fails, hopefully by then, the OOG diver will have calmed down and you can buddy share. The bungee is designed that if you get kicked in the face, your primary get snagged on something or your buddy is OOG and steals your primary (note above.. he KNOWS it's working.), you know exactly where your back up is. Around your neck, just below your chin. (Some set it up so that they don't even need to use a hand to get the backup reg into their mouth.)

I would also agree in not getting a transmitter until you know for sure (I'd say 100+ dives.) that you are going to continue diving. That's quite a hit to the wallet to stop diving in a couple months.
 
Confirming what others have said. I own an integrated octo/inflator equipped bc. It hangs in the locker and hasn't been used in several years. I figured that I would never need to use the alt/inflator, and never did in anger. But, the inconvenience of using it, also discouraged me from practicing airshare drills with buddies. Not so with my current long hose and necklace setups. It was also the highest maintenance item I have owned and caused a couple dives to be aborted.

While I like Apeks regs, Scubapros are great as well. I ,like several others, would opt for seperate primary and octo second stages. I will caveat on the 7ft long hose. They don't work optimally with some jacket style bc's. Nor, do I believe they are neccesary for recreational, ndl, dives. Try before you commit.

I would put a backup reg on a necklace and breath from a primary, on a hose long enough to share. Or, alternately, breath a short primary and make sure you have a suitable back up that is actually "secured" in the triangle between nipples and chin. Add a simple spg and a basic nitrox compatible computer.

The girlfriend and I both use softpacks and wings for recreational dives, paired with a 6ft primary hose(it works just right for our realitive height without can lights) and a necklaced backup. We have a simple spg, a wrist computer and wrist mounted compass. I can tell you that my girlfriend was absolutely blown away by the difference, the first time she dove with a well fit harness that included a crotch strap securing the rig.

Once you've dove a little and become comfortable in the water, you'll develop a pretty good idea of your gas comsumption and check your spg less and less freqently. Unless working heavily, I usually dive in with the knowledge that I have sufficient gas to complete the planned dive, with reserve, and simply check the gauge once or twice during the dive to ensure that usage is as anticipated. With a little expeience you should not be turning dives on pressure and subsequently the transmitters don't provide as much value as they might initially appear too.

That said, plenty of people use them.

Best of Luck and "Get out there and dive".
 
As you have probably figured out, AIR 2's get flamed pretty hard - mostly by divers who have never actually used one or practrised with one - it;s just popular not to like them after hearing a story from your sister' friend's, cousin who knew a diver who had one once.

Ascending with one while breathing and dumping is, contrary to popular opinion not hard. The hose lenght needs to be long enough to let it sit comfortably in your mouth and it works well with either a separate right shoulder dump (as on most scubapro BC's) or with a dump integrated into the base of the coirrogated hose on the left shoulder (like most other recreational BC's). With the former, dumping has no connection with the AIR 2 and with the latter, lightly pulling or even pushing out on the hose between midway between the AIR 2 and the dump valve on the shoulder will tighten the cable inside the corrogated hose and dump air.

The only situation where you have to manipulate the Air 2 itself while dumping is on a wing set up for technical diving where the corrogated hose fitting is a solid elbow rather than a fitting incorporating a dump valve - and an AIR 2 is not really consistent with technical diving, so it is a non issue.

The Air 2 accomplishes the same thing as a bungeed octo in that it is very easy to find when you need it as you are constantly using it during the dive. They use the same basic poppet design as a R395 and R190 second stage, it's just powered by a slightly smaller diaphragm. Performanace however is comparable to the average octo.

In my experience the Air 2 is reliable in service if properly tuned and set up and will go several years without service (although annual service is a good idea as with any octo. The dual use as an inflator also ensures it stays flushed out and ready for use. People with maintenence or reliability concerns are in most cases victims of the shop not tuning the air 2 to their regulator and/or not setting it up properly with regard to lever play. If set up right, they are virtually bullet proof as long as you don't ignore them and rinse them after the dive like any other second stage.

A conventional octo, due to it's location and attachment can be harder to locate when your buddy mugs you for your primary (2/3rds of the time that is exactly what will happpen in a recreational OOA situation - all the pretty signal exchanging never happens as an OOA diver usually needs air right now as they usually exhaled just before discovering the reg is not delivering air and swam 20 feet or so to catch up with you to share air. They see your buybbles and want to make their own bubbles RIGHT NOW. It gets more interesting for you if, when you locate your octo, you discover it is full of silt, sand or sea weed. And Air 2 avoids those issues.

A bungeed octo also avoids those issues. However as much as I like using one, there are some problems for recreational diving. Most programs still teach using a short hose primary and donating the octo to an OOA diver despite the realities of recreational gas sharing. In that environment, a bungeed octo breeds some confusion. Also recreational divers are still taught to use and carry a snorkel. The combination of long hose primary, bungeed octo and snorkel all running around the neck and chin area can create an impressive tangle of equipment and the snorkel can interfere with proper deployment of both the bungeeed octo and long hose primary.

Personally, I think the long hose primary is the way to go. Once you share air that way, you will never wqnt to go back as it allows both you and your buddy to swim and ascend normally. It also tends to further reduce panic as the OOA diver is not having to deal with a short 22" to 40" hose with a second stage that is essentially "backwards" with the hose making a sharp bend constantly trying to tug the reg out of his or her mouth.

If I were king of PADI, they'd be teaching the use of a long hose primary and training divers to donate the primary tomorrow. It works infinitely better than the current standard. I'd also pretty much eliminate the mostly useless snorkel or at least relagate it to a pocket until it is actually needed.

At that point a bungeed octo around the neck would make perfect sense for a recreational diver. Until then, a long hose primary and an Air 2 is a pretty good way to go.

-----

Regulator wise, if you plan to dive a lot upgrading to a Mk 11 S555 or Mk 17 S555 makes sense as the inhalation performance of the current S and G series second stages are much better than the unbalanced R series second stages.

If penny pinching really counts, you can spoecial order the Mk 2 Plus with any second stage and yuo will get 90% of the performance of the MK 11 or Mk 17 S555 with the less expensive Mk 2 first stage. It is not balanced so the intermediate pressure varies about 20 psi during the dive, but the balanced second stage is not noticeably affected by this as is the case with the unbalanced R series second stages. Scubapro dealers usually will not tell you that as they make a lot more money with the standard packages as they are designed so that upgrading to a better second stage requires to also upgrade to a better (and much more expensive) first stage.

The Mk 16 first stage has been discontinued and so has the X650 second stage. When SP discontinunes a product, dealers are no longer restricted in the amount of discount they can offer - and this applies to the first and second stage combination so you potentially can get a great discount on whatever first or second stage is attached to the discontinued stage.

Both the Mk 16 and X650 are balanced and are excellent performers.
 
I have to agree with most all that DAAquamaster has said. The one thing I'll add is:

It wasn't breathing from or manipulating the alt/inflator that put me off it. It was, that I could never come up with a primary hose length and routing that satisfied me. Using a sufficiently short hose that my primary would lead directly around the right side of my head and into my mouth, left me with an air sharing situation where my buddy had to be within inches of my face. An octo length hose left an unacceptably large loop out off my shoulder. A long hose routed under my arm didn't seem to work well, as it had a very annoying tendency to hang on both shoulder dumps whenever I would look to either side. The only option that seemed to work was, an octo length routed under my right arm and up to my mouth where it was connected to the first stage by a swivel(that gets flamed about as bad as the AIR2's do).

YMMV

If you think you'll never need to share air and don't plan to practice such. An alt/inflator and short prinary is the cleanest, most streamlined you can get.
 
Hey, I am surprised that no one has said the acronym, but this long hose primary and short hose octo is what they teach in DIR. This really does make sense, and although I am not DIR I practice this method as I recognized issues with the standard setup, mostly in the octo will not stay put and causes extra drag, not to mention always getting hit/banged etc, up by my face they are where they should be and I don't have to look for it when I need it.

As for the Air2, some people like, some don't, I did try it and tried practicing buddy breathing on both sides as the OOA and the rescuer, and found that it does what it is supposed to do and as long as your rig's primary second it long enough it works very well. Our issue when we first tried it, the primary was only on a 26-28inch hose which we felt cramped us in air sharing drills, so we swapped it for a 34 inch (I think) and it worked well. The issue was to be thinking straight enough to remember give up my primary and breathe off the Air2, which requires some mental retraining. I think the DA already hit the point that you need to practice this new air sharing skill and practice inflating and dumping while breathing off the Air2, as its positionally very different and thinking through the problem while under stress is a bad plan.

As for you regs- SP makes good stuff, and I am sure you will like it, Personnally I prefer Zeagle, but that is an issue like what is your favorite color, basically all of them are good, but everyone has personal preferences.

For SPGs- again they all work, and they are not exactly precision instruments- they are only calibrated to +/- 250psi, so it doesn't matter a whole lot. Now computers that is a different story and a whole new thread when you are ready
 
As you have probably figured out, AIR 2's get flamed pretty hard - mostly by divers who have never actually used one or practrised with one - it;s just popular not to like them after hearing a story from your sister' friend's, cousin who knew a diver who had one once.

Used one when I first started diving as my LDS said it was the way to go something about it being more streamlined I think was the pitch...I did practice OOA situations with my buddy and hated it FOR ME it seemed so awkward and I really didnt like having my buddy so close the 26" primary seemed way to short and too confining...maybe I was doing it wrong? maybe I needed to practice more...but whatever I switched it for the standard ow setup i.e. octi on a 40" the longer hose made it easier, by no means perfect but definately seemed easier to me(just my opinion)...I imagine the DIR 5' or 7' would make it much easier but wow thats a lot of hose...having said that Im gonna try to find some pics on how they route it...

Aquamaster your post makes sense, but its not for me:wink:(the Air2 I mean)

What ever you choose do practice tho coz when it goes south it really goes south...or perhaps you could get the store to let you both try it out in a pool or something to see if you like before you buy...:wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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