I've been reading up a lot about DIR ever since I came to this board, and so far I like what I've been hearing. With regards to gear configuration, the rationale behind all of their ideas seems to be very sound, even when that rationale may not be very readily apparent. With that in mind, I'm wondering what the rationale is behind having the canister mounted on your right side rather than your left, and more importantly, why have the canister on your right, but the light head in your left hand?
WreckWriter
January 30th, 2003, 04:05 PM
your stage/deco bottles go on the left and your right hand is needed to drive your Gavin.
WW
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:10 PM
Additionally, the light is worn on the right side because the waist strap buckle is used to hold the light canister in place. The waist strap is a standard "right hand release" thus necessitating the placement of the canister. We could not wear stages on the right and be able to scooter, as the right hand is used for steering. Since the right hand is used to steer the scooter, the light head goes in the left.
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:11 PM
Although WW covered you question with grace and dispatch (cough), you *might* check out the thread http://www.scubaboard.com/t21562/s.html dealing with attaching clips to Goodman handles. It has some good questions/answers toward the end dealing with this exact topic.
The Gavin is the real reason though :mean:
MD
Edited location of thread
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:18 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
as the right hand is used for steering
Hey, how ya been :D
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:19 PM
Other than a busted up arm I'm good, thanks!
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:27 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Other than a busted up arm I'm good, thanks!
Bummer Chick. Hope its not too bad. Put your cast up to the screen and I'll sign it fer ya :D
boomx5
January 30th, 2003, 04:33 PM
How'd you get a busted up wing?
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 04:36 PM
If you're not scootering, it really doesn't matter which hand you use to carry the goodman handle.
The Pirate :pirate:
WreckWriter
January 30th, 2003, 04:43 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
If you're not scootering, it really doesn't matter which hand you use to carry the goodman handle.
The Pirate :pirate:
Always do things the same way. Its assumed that at some time you will be scootering.
WW
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:44 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
If you're not scootering, it really doesn't matter which hand you use to carry the goodman handle.
The Pirate :pirate:
Up until my discussions with Pug in another thread I would have agreed. Now I don't, as it does make a difference unless you prepare for it.
MD
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:45 PM
I broke my left arm in 3 places on last Sunday. DONT ask how, it's FAR too embarrasing.....
O-ring
January 30th, 2003, 04:49 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
I broke my left arm in 3 places on last Sunday. DONT ask how, it's FAR too embarrasing.....
I hope you weren't scootering left handed...I would hate to have to option 1 you...
:D
Seriously, get well soon!
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 04:51 PM
Nope, no left handed scootering- this was a LAND based accident. I'm not nearly as graceful on the surface!! ;)
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 04:58 PM
WreckWriter once bubbled...
Always do things the same way. Its assumed that at some time you will be scootering.WW
I agree that in general things should be consistent. However, that is not always the case. If you get yourself into a mindset that you can't take your light out of your left hand, then you're screwed. You have to be able to adjust and adapt. Even when I'm scootering, I sometimes carry my light in my right hand using the thumb holder while I use my left hand to manipulate stage btls or ear clearing and suit inflating, etc. I do this so the light beam doesn't flail all over the cave while I deal with other issues on the fly.
Additionally, I wouldn't assume that at some time every cave diver will be scootering. The vast majority of cave divers do not scooter and probably never will. I don't scooter on every dive because some dives are not appropriate for scooters.
The Pirate :pirate:
WreckWriter
January 30th, 2003, 05:00 PM
I didn't say you couldn't swap hands with it EVER. I also didn't say anything about cave diving :)
Obviously one needs to be able to adapt to changing situations, I also swap hands with my light occasionally.
As for scooters, I find them a natural evolution for all tech divers, not just cavers.
WW
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:01 PM
MechDiver once bubbled...
Up until my discussions with Pug in another thread I would have agreed. Now I don't, as it does make a difference unless you prepare for it. MD
And since I wasn't privy to your discussions with Pug, this makes a lot of sense. :confused:
The Pirate :pirate:
Dryglove
January 30th, 2003, 05:06 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
I broke my left arm in 3 places on last Sunday. DONT ask how, it's FAR too embarrasing.....
Sorry but i gotta ask....curiosity is killing me.......how did you do it? I hope you are healing well.
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:07 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
And since I wasn't privy to your discussions with Pug, this makes a lot of sense. :confused:
The Pirate :pirate:
I'm sorry. I assumed you read the entire thread and would have seen where I said
"you *might* check out the thread in this forum dealing with attaching clips to Goodman handles. It has some good questions/answers toward the end dealing with this exact topic."
As you're another scooter person its probably irrelevant anyway
:upset:
MD
O-ring
January 30th, 2003, 05:07 PM
lal7176 once bubbled...
Sorry but i gotta ask....curiosity is killing me.......how did you do it? I hope you are healing well.
She raised her arm to thumb the dive but her buddy got mad cause he still had 500 psi and they were only 12 grand back. He put her arm in his Gavin to make a point and it snapped like a twig.. (he had one of the "special" wind motors)
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:10 PM
WreckWriter once bubbled...
As for scooters, I find them a natural evolution for all tech divers, not just cavers. WW
It would be nice if that were the case. However, I think that there are whole lot more tech divers out there who do not scooter than there are those that do scooter. For me personally, I was scootering as a rec diver long before I became a cave or tech diver. A scooter can get someone in trouble faster than just about any other aspect of diving. A lot of so called tech divers do not possess the frame of mind to handle the extra task loading associated with scooters.
The Pirate :pirate:
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:11 PM
Not quite O Ring....
I fell while taking gear to the truck Sunday afternoon. I tripped and fell forward, stuck my arm out (iinstict, but dont EVER do it!!). Hurt but didnt think much of it at the time. Still hurt on the 12 drive home, but.... Tues went and got some xrays and found out I fractured the ulna in 2 places and also the radial head (in the elbow). GOt a purdy splint and a couple weeks dry out of the deal (and you should SEE the bruise!).
Dryglove
January 30th, 2003, 05:12 PM
O-ring once bubbled...
She raised her arm to thumb the dive but her buddy got mad cause he still had 500 psi and they were only 12 grand back. He put her arm in his Gavin to make a point and it snapped like a twig.. (he had one of the "special" wind motors)
LOL....now thats tragic.......how did the gavin hold up :D
Dryglove
January 30th, 2003, 05:14 PM
Ouch!! That truly sucks.Make the best of your dry dock situation and get well soon!!
chickdiver once bubbled...
Not quite O Ring....
I fell while taking gear to the truck Sunday afternoon. I tripped and fell forward, stuck my arm out (iinstict, but dont EVER do it!!). Hurt but didnt think much of it at the time. Still hurt on the 12 drive home, but.... Tues went and got some xrays and found out I fractured the ulna in 2 places and also the radial head (in the elbow). GOt a purdy splint and a couple weeks dry out of the deal (and you should SEE the bruise!).
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:17 PM
Got the parts kits coming so I can do all the rebuilds.... got new line to resling the stages.... I plan to use this time "constructively":out:
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:18 PM
MechDiver once bubbled...
"you *might* check out the thread in this forum dealing with attaching clips to Goodman handles. It has some good questions/answers toward the end dealing with this exact topic."
MD
I've been looking for the thread you mentioned but don't seem to find it. How long ago was it?
The Pirate :pirate:
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:21 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Got the parts kits coming so I can do all the rebuilds.... got new line to resling the stages.... I plan to use this time "constructively":out:
I know of some good medicine for when the land sickness gets too much to handle.
The Pirate :pirate:
Dryglove
January 30th, 2003, 05:23 PM
http://www.scubaboard.com/t21562/s.html
The Pirate once bubbled...
I've been looking for the thread you mentioned but don't seem to find it. How long ago was it?
The Pirate :pirate:
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:26 PM
Good medicane for "land sickness"? Im almost afraid to ask, but I just gotta.
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:29 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
I've been looking for the thread you mentioned but don't seem to find it. How long ago was it?
The Pirate :pirate:
http://www.scubaboard.com/t21562/s.html
Arrgh. Could have sworn it was in Tek Discussion. Sorry bout that, under Lights. I think I have the link right, haven't gotten the hang of those here yet.
MD
MechDiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:38 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Got the parts kits coming so I can do all the rebuilds.... got new line to resling the stages.... I plan to use this time "constructively":out:
If ya send your Gavin up, I'll wax it for you :mean:
MD
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:39 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Good medicane for "land sickness"? Im almost afraid to ask, but I just gotta.
Ice cold Patron Silver. :D
The Pirate :pirate:
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Ha! You are a funny guy!!! :D
chickdiver
January 30th, 2003, 05:41 PM
Hey Pirate- you aren't by chance from South Carolina are you?
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:50 PM
MechDiver once bubbled...
http://www.scubaboard.com/t21562/s.html
Arrgh. Could have sworn it was in Tek Discussion. Sorry bout that, under Lights. I think I have the link right, haven't gotten the hang of those here yet. MD
Ok, I looked at it and I still say if you are not scootering, it doesn't matter which hand the light is in. All that stuff about routing and re-routing the light chord while swithching from hand to hand is unnecessary task loading to attempt to deal with a hypothetical non issue. So what if your light gets tangled with the long hose during the donation phase of air sharing? Once the OOA diver has air and is calmed down, the divers are going to have to sort everything out, which could include unwrapping the hose and light chord if they got entangled. Regardless of whether the light chord gets wrapped around the long hose, it won't prevent an OOA diver from getting the reg. A real live OOA situation is not going to be pretty no matter how much you practice it, because it will be the other guy who is OOA and he/she will hit you from behind and rip the reg out of your mouth no matter where or what you are doing.
The Pirate :pirate:
The Pirate
January 30th, 2003, 05:51 PM
chickdiver once bubbled...
Hey Pirate- you aren't by chance from South Carolina are you?
No I aren't!
The Pirate :pirate:
WYDT
January 31st, 2003, 01:37 PM
Other (besides driving a scooter) reasons to keep the light in the left hand include...
1. Much less of a CF if you need to donate air.
2. Keeps more slack out of the cord keeping it from dangling.
If you think I'm kidding wait till your buddy is holding his/her light in their right hand and then spring an OOG drill on them.
When dropping stages the light is usually clipped off to the right D-ring negating the need to put it in the right hand.
When descending with a scooter or not the light can be held in the right hand to facilitate equalizing your ears and adding gas to wing and drysuit. That's what the thumb holder on the lights is for though it's not really needed.
BTW: I'm getting my Gavin tomorrow (Saturday)!!! Thanks Chickdiver!!!
WYDT
January 31st, 2003, 01:48 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
I still say if you are not scootering, it doesn't matter which hand the light is in. All that stuff about routing and re-routing the light chord while swithching from hand to hand is unnecessary task loading to attempt to deal with a hypothetical non issue. So what if your light gets tangled with the long hose during the donation phase of air sharing? Once the OOA diver has air and is calmed down, the divers are going to have to sort everything out, which could include unwrapping the hose and light chord if they got entangled. Regardless of whether the light chord gets wrapped around the long hose, it won't prevent an OOA diver from getting the reg. A real live OOA situation is not going to be pretty no matter how much you practice it, because it will be the other guy who is OOA and he/she will hit you from behind and rip the reg out of your mouth no matter where or what you are doing.
Are you serious? You really think an OOA diver is going to always come up and rip the reg out of your mouth? Who do you dive with? The people I dive with can see and respond quickly to a light signal and you can bet your ass that I'm going to be signaling them with my light if I run out of air. Two people coming toward each other is much faster than me trying to outswim my buddy to "rip the reg out of their mouth" AND if my buddy sees my signal you can bet your ass that they will have that reg out and be shoving it in my mouth as I get to them. I would and have done the same.
Also, why not hold the light in your left hand? Why will prevention of a CF component not help? What possible advantage do you get holding it in your right hand? I do everything I can to avoid a CF starting and that starts with practice planning and teamwork. There's no reason that a CF should develop in an OOG situation if all the divers involved are on the same page. If you're not on the same page with me we don't dive.
DSAO!
ericfine50
January 31st, 2003, 02:04 PM
Chixdiver - Get better soon. Sucks to break an arm.
Pirate- are you using a thumb loop on the lighthead?
thanks
eric
The Pirate
January 31st, 2003, 02:18 PM
WYDT once bubbled...
Are you serious? You really think an OOA diver is going to always come up and rip the reg out of your mouth? Who do you dive with? The people I dive with can see and respond quickly to a light signal and you can bet your ass that I'm going to be signaling them with my light if I run out of air. Two people coming toward each other is much faster than me trying to outswim my buddy to "rip the reg out of their mouth" AND if my buddy sees my signal you can bet your ass that they will have that reg out and be shoving it in my mouth as I get to them. I would and have done the same.
I think you misunderstand the nature of my message. I do not think that any buddy team of divers who regularly dive together, practice skills, plan dives and dive plans, and are generally on the same page will ever have an OOA problem or any problem for that matter that they cannot solve rather quickly and efficiently. Can you actually imagine yourself running out of air without some major catastrophe having occurred (i.e. cave collapse)? If so, you should quit diving now. I can't because all my dives are planned with more than enough reserve gas do deal with problems. The OOA diver will virtually always be some dumb goober with another group that is in a panic because he/she's about to die, and is looking for the closest source of air. They do not give any thought to proper signalling or anything else except getting to a source of air. If you've never experienced a true OOA diver then you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. It will not be you or your buddy, but some idiot that happens to be in the water in your vicinity. You most likely won't see it coming. Its great to practice OOA drills because it enables you to develop skills and instincts that will aid you if the real thing ever happens to you (but remember, you won't be the one ooa).
Also, why not hold the light in your left hand? Why will prevention of a CF component not help? What possible advantage do you get holding it in your right hand? I do everything I can to avoid a CF starting and that starts with practice planning and teamwork. There's no reason that a CF should develop in an OOG situation if all the divers involved are on the same page. If you're not on the same page with me we don't dive.
You've gotten way off base from the original question, which was why only hold it in the left hand. The left had is where it should usually be held, but not always depending on the circumstances.
The Pirate :pirate:
WYDT
January 31st, 2003, 02:36 PM
The Pirate once bubbled...
I think you misunderstand the nature of my message. I do not think that any buddy team of divers who regularly dive together, practice skills, plan dives and dive plans, and are generally on the same page will ever have an OOA problem or any problem for that matter that they cannot solve rather quickly and efficiently. Can you actually imagine yourself running out of air without some major catastrophe having occurred (i.e. cave collapse)? If so, you should quit diving now. I can't because all my dives are planned with more than enough reserve gas do deal with problems.
Yep, you're right there. Definitely take some serious $h1+ to have an OOG on our team/buddies.
The OOA diver will virtually always be some dumb goober with another group that is in a panic because he/she's about to die, and is looking for the closest source of air. They do not give any thought to proper signalling or anything else except getting to a source of air. If you've never experienced a true OOA diver then you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. It will not be you or your buddy, but some idiot that happens to be in the water in your vicinity. You most likely won't see it coming. Its great to practice OOA drills because it enables you to develop skills and instincts that will aid you if the real thing ever happens to you (but remember, you won't be the one ooa).
Exactly why we try to stay away from places where there are "dumb goobers" diving. Besides, isn't that what your knife is really for? ;)
You've gotten way off base from the original question, which was why only hold it in the left hand. The left had is where it should usually be held, but not always depending on the circumstances.
True but almost always I'd say.
Things usually happen at the worst possible moment so if you are prepared you can stop a situation before it becomes a true CF!
DSAO!
The Pirate
January 31st, 2003, 03:59 PM
ericfine50 once bubbled...
Chixdiver - Get better soon. Sucks to break an arm.
Pirate- are you using a thumb loop on the lighthead?thanks
eric
Yes, but sometimes I just hold the handle under my thumb without using the thumbholder. It depends on the situation. If I want to be able to move the light beam around, I use the thumb holder.
