Charter Prices Up

[GTADiver]

I have been calling arround regarding charter prices for next summer. Why is it that the prices in Kingston are basically the same as last year but in the St Lawrence river they are up a lot. Some of the charter operators on the river mentioned the "new" Transport Canada regulations. Well then why is Kingston the same rates as last year. Is there "new" regulations or are they simply being enforced after recent accidents on our waterways? Are the passenger carrying regulations not simply minimum regulations and if so does that mean that I should have sympathy for someone that has "cut corners" and gotten away with it for awhile? I admit I do not know all the issues on this but I want to hear both sides of the picture so please dont chew my head off for asking?

[eagleray2003]

I know fuel and insurance and other costs go up which will force prices up, but how much will the market bear is the question.
Personnally I would go to Kingston if the rates were cheaper, I have not dove with all the operators on the St. Lawrence but on observation some would have to pay me to go on there boats.

[SneakyB'tard]

I am trying to book tim eoff this summer to dive in the SLR. Whithout getting anyones back up, what operators would you suggest I 'get a busy signal' from when trying to book?

I rarely get out to enjoy a full weekend and I don't want a hassle or poor service. I also hate to hear operators bragging all weekend..It is MY relaxing weekend... not theirs.

Any help would be appreciated.

[GTADiver]

I think its obvious that the Kingston operators would travel more thereby use more fuel. I think all the guys in Kingston run a class act.

[SneakyB'tard]

Great..How about the river? Brockville to Gananoque area, I want to try the Keystorm again.

[taz22]

I live just outside of Brockville and have booked some charter time already for this coming summer. I can't say that I've seen any increase in price with the operators that I have recommened in the past. Luckily, I have my own boat so doing dives for 3 or 4 of us is fine from it, but once I get over that number a charter boat becomes an obvious choice. A dive to the Keystorm can be a really pain with all the regs and crap you have to go through, it could be possible that a charter to this wreck could see and increased cost to it.

As to new Transport Canada regs, I haven't heard anything about that.


Just in case you hadn't heard, Divers Down the TV show was in the Brockville area for a few days this past summer and is doing a show on it. It should screen on TSN in March. Here is a link so you can keep abreast of when it will be on.

http://www.diversdowntv.com/welcome.html

[seahunter]

Almost without exception charter boat operators are weekend warriors. Running that boat is NOT their occupation.
I had a charter boat in Tobermory (anyone remember the Penguin - don't laugh?) for several years and I can tell you it is a frustrating experience. I don't doubt that most of the operators in Ontario are spending lots of time at their desk and with their accountant figuring out some way to make a buck. Even covering all the expenses would please many of them.
There are lots of charters in different areas (Long Point, Midland, Toby, etc) that charge under $75 for an all-day dive boat trip. That normally would allow 3 dives or more and often includes a lunch. Very few dive charters in similar dive spots (North Carolina, Hatteras, BC, etc) will take you for less than $100 US. That's double what we pay now!!
I don't like the idea of prices going up but, as GTA and eagleray have said, there are increases in costs that cannot be avoided, plus I want the boat I'm on to be in perfect running condition and with all the equipment needed to handle any eventuality.
No I don't want to be ripped off but, I don't begrudge the operators making a buck! If they don't, the logical result is firstly a cut back in the quality of service (safety) as he tries to stay in business and then a sale of the boat to an new, inexperienced operator or removal from service. None of these are acceptable from a diver's safety point of view.

[Butch103]

taz22 once bubbled...

Just in case you hadn't heard, Divers Down the TV show was in the Brockville area for a few days this past summer and is doing a show on it. It should screen on TSN in March. Here is a link so you can keep abreast of when it will be on.

http://www.diversdowntv.com/welcome.html

and I didn't see any references to TSN.....Only NESN...Any thoughts?...I have never seen this program (at least I don't remember)...Looks like a good one......

[taz22]

NESN has worked out an arrangement with TSN and/or The Outdoor Life network to show this one in Canada since it is the St. Lawrence they will be promoting.

the first showing is actually going to be a special screening before it hits the airwaves at the Brockville Arts Centre. A couple of our local instructors and charter operators has been informed by Divers Down that they will send an advanced copy of in appreciation of spending the four days with them. The Brockville Chamber has been notified and has agreeded to foot the bill for renting the Arts Centre.

As soon as I find out when this will take place I'll post it on this board as a different thread. Maybe we could make this an official OFWF dinner and movie event in this neck of the woods. I'd be happy to work something out.

If anyone has any ideas or wants further info feel free to pm me.

Cheers!!

[AquaticWorldOne]

I HAVE BOOKED SEVERAL DAYS WITH ABOVE AND BELOW OUT OF MALLORY LANDING. I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT MUCH OF THEIR INCREASE IS DO TO FUEL AND POSSIBLITY OF HAVING TO RUN TO HART ISLAND TO DIVE U.S. WATERS. STILL A GREAT DEAL IF YOU BOOK THE WHOLE BOAT.
HAS THE COAST GUARD OPENED UP THE JODREY FOR DIVING AGAIN

[o2diver]

I believe the increase in charter costs are due to the upgrade costs that the operators experienced last year. I know of some operators that still have upgrades to do this year just to stay in business. We are still lucky here in Ontario that charter costs are not 80.00 per day as in some other locations.

TTFN

[Bubble Boy]

How did you get 02Diver for a user name....do you stay above 10 feet? LOL:D

[divedude]

Fuel has gone up, but insurance is the Killer this year. It more than doubled this year.
But a lot of operaters don't have insurance. Some don't buy it at all, and some don't read the fine print, which says they must have a Licenced Master on board, which almost all don't have. So a lot of divers are going out and putting there life in someones hands that is not qualfied or insured. It's up to the diver to check.

[SneakyB'tard]

I was wondering if the Charter Associations of each diving area require proof of compliance before membership is given?

If so it is a good way to ensure that all sanctioned operators are following the rules. If not, maybe the Associations could look into it.

As a regular diver it is easier to look up charter operators on the Asasociation websites and knowing that all I see are up to standard would make me more confident.....Just a thought.

13 days till Dom Rep.......

[indiana]

Hello

The Charter association in Brockville has no more power than you or I, they have there annual meetings, make suggestions but after words they all go back to there own rules. If government officials inspected the boats in the Brockville area, I would guess from being on all of them that half of them would be but shut down from none compliance just like what happened in Toby. I don't think there is one operator who has a limited Masters based on there boats length and tonnage of over five tons operating out of there but Hay! I'm hope full the government will slam down on all of them shortly for every ones safety. The week end warriors have got to go. Dive boat operators packing there house boats up to and over the max load capacity seems like a dangerous way to make seasonal fast cash.

[SneakyB'tard]

Yikes!

I was hoping that area was better than that!
I dove with a couple of them and they seemed quite confident in their ability to pass the inspections. Then again I do not know what is required, so I can only smile and nod at their claims.

Hasn't the Government already inspected this area?...I have heard from the locals that they all passed with flying colors!

Do you have any input on the good and ugly of that area, I love the St. Lawrence but don't want a cruddy time out.

Thanks
MM

[seahunter]

What Charter Associations?
Any associations that claim to represent the dive charter boats with few exceptions are invariably made up of dive boat owners. The associations are simply their way of appearing legitimate and concerned but the association is really there for themselves. No diving reps are at the meetings; there is no complaint or discipline process.

Let me make perfectly clear that there are lots of good, ethical, concerned boat operators out there!! Generally they don't need an association other than for a little extra exposure. They get lots of business from the diving community and stores because their operations are great! I'm simply pointing out that being a member of an association does NOT necessarily mean eveything is OK.

You're right - divers are on their own! We have the same problem as a dive store but it's even more serious because if we use a boat and there's a problem, we too could be faulted. We try to use established and proven dive boats but that's hard since they change owners, operators and captains regularly (like a couple of times every season). Besides, the numbers available are dwindling.
I've seldom seen it happen but you could simply ASK if they have insurance. Most divers calling about a boat charter ask the rate, the location and the dive sites available. No one asks if the boat is insured or even if the boat is any good! In our case, before the money goes out the signed letter comes in with their assurance that they are insured and meet all applicable government regulations for the operation of a commercial charter boat service. Now if they have a problem we have taken reasonable steps to protect our clients. The good operators will gladly produce the documentation and you're decision is made!

Be careful what you wish for! If the boats are all inspected and required to come up to standards, and they should be, several will stop working. There simply is not enough money in this service to cover the extra costs. Certainly not for the cheap, small operations. As well, the others will pass on the costs to the divers as they should.
In both cases, less boats and higher costs, the fees will rise.
Generally you may find that the better operators already charge a few dollars more (if they don't they should begin - they're worth it!).

This entire thread started with the question of rising costs and earlier I commented on the cheap rates we have here.
Say good-bye!!

[SneakyB'tard]

Alrighty then...Thanks for the insight.
I am now shopping for a zodiac.

[SneakyB'tard]

Thanks, I will look them up.

Hopefully nobody will go on rant about Zodiak Divers.....

Hey I am not french....just like da zodiak - da Pepsi and May West.....okay C'est Bon

[divedude]

SneakyB'tard once bubbled...
I was wondering if the Charter Associations of each diving area require proof of compliance before membership is given?

If so it is a good way to ensure that all sanctioned operators are following the rules. If not, maybe the Associations could look into it.

As a regular diver it is easier to look up charter operators on the Asasociation websites and knowing that all I see are up to standard would make me more confident.....Just a thought.

13 days till Dom Rep.......
The one in Kingston doesn't. I'm the only one with a Masters certificate here. But I don't belong to it, for that reason.

[divedude]

SneakyB'tard once bubbled...
Thanks, I will look them up.

Hopefully nobody will go on rant about Zodiak Divers.....

Hey I am not french....just like da zodiak - da Pepsi and May West.....okay C'est Bon

I won't go on a rant :D
99% of divers in private inflatables are great and out having a good time and good dives.
But 1% are a**holes. But you get that in any sport.

[seahunter]

Just as an aside since I happen to be watching this thread right now, I had a 21' Bombard several years ago and we had more fun and more dives on that boat than on any other watercraft I've ever seen.
They are nice because they are so portable. I used to haul mine inflated all the time to Toby and all over the province. I had a Ford Escort at the time.
We took groups of 8 to the Arabia a hundred times. We did the caves, Forest City and all the closer wrecks lots too.
We did a small, informal survey of the Waome and ran perhaps 500 divers out there for their first dive on it over the number of years I owned it.
It was in great shape and was sold and used a lot by 2 other divers after me. It may still be out and running. I had a 55HP Mercury on it. Lots of power for planing with 8 and enough to stand on it's tail when alone. I have pictures!

Does anyone know what the regs are concerning inflatables? Are they different?

One thing for sure they were easy to dive from.

[SneakyB'tard]

Thats sounds like good diving fun Seahunter.

All I want to do is have fun, do some diving and hopefully stay out of the charter boats way.I know the charter guys HATE Zodiac divers but, its a big Lake/River.


Hope I didn't offend any francais out there..just seems that if you have a fleur-de-lis on your drivers license then you dive with a Zodiac.:D

[divedude]

SneakyB'tard once bubbled...
All I want to do is have fun, do some diving and hopefully stay out of the charter boats way.I know the charter guys HATE Zodiac divers but, its a big Lake/River.


Hope I didn't offend any francais out there..just seems that if you have a fleur-de-lis on your drivers license then you dive with a Zodiac.:D
Hey!!:eek: I don't hate zodiac divers
In fact if you ask any that have tied up to me they'll tell you I even help them out at times
And many have used the head on my boat.
I do of course ask for a donation to POW since they are the reason the moorings are there

[Jimmy B]

Diver Dude,

Is your boat compliant with the new regulations?

JB

[Silverback]

seahunter once bubbled...
Just as an aside since I happen to be watching this thread right now, I had a 21' Bombard several years ago and we had more fun and more dives on that boat than on any other watercraft I've ever seen.

Seahunter....

Is this the boat you and Robert Landry had at Underwater World. I remember that boat...

They are an easy boat to dive from, arn't they. I had the use of one two years ago one summer and had a lot of fun with it in Kingston and the Cedar Point area.

Silverback

[seahunter]

Jeez Silverback!
I've not heard anyone mention good ol' Underwater World in a long time. Do I know you?

It's not the same boat. I had my Bombard later when I owned Pro Dive. U/W World had already closed, I had opened Penguin Diving with Ron Ramsey and already sold that to Frank Romano. The Wet Shop was just an idea.

Bob Landry went on to set up the Underwater Skills program at Seneca and is now retired. He was the only diver I ever met who could tell more stories about diving than myself. Actually Tom McCallum (TAM Dive) could tell more stories than either Bob or me but his were all true.

You've sure brought back some great memories!
For the others, Underwater World was a great and very busy training store in Scarborough from 1969 to 1978. Many of the dozens of dive stores that would open between 1975 and 1995 were owned by instructors from U/W World. It was a special place and should still be around but times and people change. Sometimes decisions are made that satisfy today's needs but are regretted in the future.

No one other than myself from U/W World is still involved in scuba.
Damn we had a lot of fun those days!

The boat there looked like a regular inflatable but was different.
Do you remember the big scuba demonstration tank we had outside the store?

[divedude]

Jimmy B once bubbled...
Diver Dude,

Is your boat compliant with the new regulations?

JB
It was last year and I have the certificate.
BUT I've heard that they may change things "again" So I may need a life raft :confused: this year. and I may need a stability test. I have no idea why!! It's been on the water 18 years with no problems. but rules are rules :bonk: who said the goverment had to make sense :D But it will be inspected again this spring.
In order for my insurance to be valid I need a certificate.

[Bubble Boy]

divedude once bubbled...

Hey!!:eek: I don't hate zodiac divers
In fact if you ask any that have tied up to me they'll tell you I even help them out at times

this translates to.........hey they are a cheap fender
;)

[divedude]

Bubble Boy once bubbled...

this translates to.........hey they are a cheap fender
;)
Darn.... Ya caught me :D

[Butch103]

divedude once bubbled...

. and I may need a stability test. I have no idea why!! It's been on the water 18 years with no problems. but rules are rules :bonk: who said the goverment had to make sense :D But it will be inspected again this spring.
In order for my insurance to be valid I need a certificate.

I thought the boat was listing to the port a little too much ;) .....initially I thought it was just because you and I were on the same side of the boat....lol:bonk: