Up my nose like a rubber hose!

[Maximillion]

Man, I hated that feeling of water going through my nose and into my throat as a kid . . . and I hate it just the same now!

I am having trouble with being able to have my face exposed to the water while inhaling through the regulator. I mean, if I flood my mask and or take it off under water, I have a real time of it breathing normally without sucking water in through my nose (OK, I can plug my nose with one hand and no problem, but I hate to have to do that!) It really "sucks" (pun intended) and last night in the pool practicing, I about drown myself! (Not literally, but I did go shooting to the surface once to choke the water I had just inhaled out of my lungs!) Not good of course, and I did manage to practice it enough to get to where I could manage it, but I wonder if there is something medically noteworthy about those of us who don't seem to be able to close off the nose from water entry when inhaling through the mouth.

(While I appreciate uneducated thoughts on this one, I would really appreciate a knowledgable person in the physiology of the E,N, and T to perhaps take a stab at it - if there is someone like that on this site).

I've tried a little muscle memory thing and am working on it, but after sucking in half of the pool through my nose while practicing last night, I thought I'd ask your advice, knowledge, techniques for mitigating it, etc.

Thanks
MAXIMILLION

[DandyDon]

That can't be good. It doesn't take much water in lungs to cause real problems and serious accidents have been known to start this way. Not really a medical problem, I wouldn't think - but we can see if the physicians who post here surprise me wrong again.

As far as a behavior problem, you might ask on the Inst panel forum - see if any of them could offer suggestions. I'm thinking the habit of breathing out thur nose a little would help. I often do that to equalize or mask clearing.

As a reminder, many accidents do happen on the surface. If you have to bail, make it to surface, but stil have problems - ditch the weights first, not last. My home bud and I practice grabbing out weight pouches as it's not as simple as one might think. In some cases DAN dive insurance pays for lost gear, try a claim.

good luck!

[Thalassamania]

It seems to be the season for this and similar problems. There are many techniques that work to solve these sorts of problems. My favorite is to help the student to learn independently control their nose and mouth. Try this:

1) At the surface, with your head out of the water and no mask, take a full breath and then alternate short bursts of exhalation between your nose and mouth. After you’ve done this several times take a full breath, and do the same thing, only this time submerge your entire face after a few cycles on the surface. Repeat this until you are very comfortable (or feel very stupid<G>).
2) Now put your mask on and repeat the process. Start out of the water, move to face submerged, DO NOT FLOOD YOUR MASK.
3) Now repeat the process, but flood your mask after your first exhalation with your face in the water.
4) Now try and clear your mask, fully submerged, as per normal.
5) Let me know how this works for you.
__________________

[Maximillion]

Thalassamania,

I'll give that technique a try - thanks.

I was successful last night in the pool, but not yet comfortable or confident. After reading many other threads, I am also happy to note I'm not alone on this one. I guess I'm blessed with a very large sinus and nose and not much muscle control in that area of the face so when I breathe in through the mouth, the nose wants to huff as well!

I'll try your technique and see what happens.

APpreciate wnything more anyone has to offer.

MAX

[reefduffer]

APpreciate wnything more anyone has to offer.
...
MAX

I'd say practice. Practice. Practice some more.
It's truly amazing what the human mind and body can learn to do with diligent practice.
That's especially true for overcoming initial panic reactions.

To that end, for this, you don't need much scuba gear, or a pool. Get your mask and
a length of tubing. Put your mask on. Stick your head in a tub or basin or bucket
or trashcan of water and breath through the tube. When that seems comfortable, take your mask off and keep breathing through the tube. Wait a few seconds.
Put your mask back on. When you can handle that, wait a minute before putting it back on.

Do that a few dozen times. Do it a few hundred.
It won't cost you valuable pool time, or even an air fill.
When you can do it confidently in your bathtub, move it to the pool with gear.
I'll bet that by then it won't be any more challenging there.

[Maximillion]

Reefduffer,

Thanks. I agree with the practice makes perfect motto. I've taught people all over the world how to fly airplanes for years, and have taken some of the seemingly hopeless aviators, and made them into good, safe pilots with PRACTICE. That said, I feel better having gotten it to work in the pool the other night, but still not confident - completely! I want to be completely confident about a skill like that one which could save my life at 100 feet, just like I would a skill that may save my life at 30,000 feet up! SO, I'll take your advice and go practice it - alot!

THanks,
MAX

[TSandM]

Remember that you have a sink.

That isn't actually humor . . . I have a friend who had problems with coping with mask flooding, and he spent some time filling his sink with ice water and putting his head in it and flooding his mask. You can do the same sort of thing, and you can do it every day if you want to, until you have achieved the confidence you're looking for. (BTW, I think you are absolutely right to be looking for that confidence -- it's my personal opinion that it's a bad idea to take ANY shaky skill underwater repeatedly.)

One thing to remember -- Although the nose makes it LOOK as though the air passages go upward into your face, they don't. The floor of the nose is horizontal when your head is in a normal position. Therefore, if you are sitting upright on the bottom of the pool and flood your mask, and then do the "head tilt backward" thing you are taught for clearing, you will cause any water in your mask and nose to run down into the back of your throat. For pool exercises, it is not necessary to tilt your head at all to clear a mask. The bottom of the mask is already the lowest point in your face. When you are actually diving, if you are looking downward, your mask is getting close to horizontal, and to encourage water to escape when clearing, it may BE necessary to tilt your head back.

[cutlass]

Sorry for dredging such an old thread but the title was too good to pass up.

If working at it still fails, a possibility is that there's a defect in the soft palate which prevents it from properly sealing the nasal passages from the mouth.

[Thalassamania]

Sorry for dredging such an old thread but the title was too good to pass up.

If working at it still fails, a possibility is that there's a defect in the soft palate which prevents it from properly sealing the nasal passages from the mouth.The soft palate does not seal.

[cutlass]

It does. The issue would especially arise for those with cleft palates. Scuba-Doc has an article about that condition here (http://www.scuba-doc.com/clftpal.htm) and from which comes this statement:


.... When one inhales one reduces the intrathoracic pressure and air flows to the lungs. The reduced pressure is conveyed equally to the nose and mouth and if we wish to take air in through the mouth only we must establish an obsruction between the nasopharynx and the larynx. We do this by elevating the base of the tongue compressing it against the posterior aspect of the hard palate. ....

IMO, the continuation of the last sentence would say something like: This stimulates that part of the involuntary swallowing (deglutition) mechanism which tenses and lifts (tensor and levator palati muscles respectively) the soft palate to close off the nasopharynx.

Besides anatomic anomalies such as cleft palate, possible neurologic deficits may affect normal (e.g. coordination, strength, symmetry) muscular control of soft palate movement.

[Maximillion]

Still here, and still monitoring this and other threads. Do appreciate the additional information and though regarding this phenomenon. Happened to do a little pool time just this last week once again (like to do that after a few months out of the water and before going on a boat dive) and did some practice once again. Was able to start at the surface with mask off and submerge and continue breathing. As soon as I put my mask on and bagan to clear it, I did the head tilt upward thing (not really necessary) I had residual water drain down into my throat from my nose and it was, once again, U.G.L.Y.! I am confident that I can work though an emergency (mask kicked off, strap breaking, etc) and breathe, fix the problem, etc, but I just need to remember to keep my orientation face down! As soon as I tilt face up, I'm really like a river flowing down hill and don;t seem to be able to close off my nasal passage to my throat.

OK - so are you saying that is potentially something medically out of character (not normal) or is this a learned, muscle memory thing I simply need to continue to work hard? By the way, I have talked to many, and have read may posts and feel I am in very good company on this one!!

:confused:

Thanks again,

MAXIMILLION

[cutlass]

It's been about a 2-1/2 years of trying. At this point, I think an ENT exam would be worthwhile to see if something's going on that can't be compensated by training -- at least by the type of training tried so far.