Plastic models, Oriskany vs. Essex

[SelkieDVM]

So I'm planning a trip to dive the USS Oriskany this summer and the geek in me thought it would be a cool idea to put together a plastic model of the ship in the meantime. I realize there would likely be significant differences between the model and the actual ship but at least it would give me a vague idea of the layout in 3D, especially the superstructure (this would be a recreational dive).

Trouble is, I can't find a model of the Oriskany itself. There are, however, models of the USS Essex available, the same class aircraft carrier. So my questions for the Navy vets/historians/modelers out there, how different are these two ships? Should I just stick to pictures? Does anybody know where I could order a (cheap) model of the Oriskany online?

Thanks!
Lilla

[Dig]

A model isn't going to offer anything about the layout, the models are crude and show only the most basic structural outlines....but I admire your desire to learn about it.

Here's what's I'd do in the meantime with the extra time before the dive. Read everything you can about the O and about that era of aircraft carriers. Study the pictures and examine the cutaways and build diagrams if you can find them. Read about the O, the history of the build, and the role it played in US history. Then go one step further and hit some of the veteran forums and see if you can't talk to some guys that served on her....hear their personal stories and learn how a ship becomes more than a method of transportation for those that serve on her, how in a short time it becomes part of you forever.

I promise promise promise that this dive will then be more than a just a cool dive, it'll be a profound experience.


Sorry if this sounded corny....


Regards,

Danny



Here's a couple to get you started:

USS Oriskany (http://glewis.us/Oriskany.htm) (lots of good links)

CV-9 ESSEX Class (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cv-9.htm) (good links on right sidebar)

[medic001918]

Dig, that's a great idea when it comes to diving a historic wreck where you can still find people who served aboard the very ship you'll be diving on. It would definitely enhance the experience to say the least. I might do that very thing you mentioned before making a trip to dive the mighty O.

Shane

[SelkieDVM]

Great suggestions - I'll definitely be doing some of these things. It will add to the excitement beforehand and the enjoyment once I get there. I really didn't intend the model to help with serious dive planning, just to get an overall sense and to amuse myself in the meantime. I used to enjoy model building as a kid, and thought this would be a good opportunity to take it up again to some extent. To that end, I suppose a model of the Essex would suffice.

Thank you!
L.

[DA Aquamaster]

The Essex class was in servcie for a long time and most underwent at least one major modernization and several underwent two modernizations.

The original Essex class was a straight deck carrier made in both short and long hull versions (the major external difference being the clipper bow on the long hull Essex carriers.) Each ship as constructed also differed and many of the early essex class carriers had the bridge modified later in the war while late construction Essex carriers had the modified bridge from the start. Some Essex carriers also had the CIC moved from the bridge to the gallery deck, so internal layouts differed almost from the start.

Post war, most Essex carriers were modified with an angled flight deck but there were (if I remember correctly) 3 major differences in the modernization programs. The Essex carriers receiving the full angled deck and modernization package were reclassified as Hancock class carriers while ships that received a more austere modernization with angled decks were classified as "Modernized Essex" carriers. The Oriskany was different in that it was completed post war to a unique angled deck design utilizing significant amounts of aluminum plate rather than wood plank on the landing portion of the flight deck. Nearly all the Essex class straight deck or otherwise were modified with enclosed "hurricane" bows as part of the modernization process.

In 1952 the Navy also divided the CV designation into "CVA" for attack carriers and "CVS" for anti-submarine or ASW carriers. The CVA's were optimized for strike aircraft while the CVS carriers were optimized for the ASW role and some even had sonar packages installed. The differences were in the details of elevator and catapult modifications as well as in some internal layout and equipment changes.

The smaller decks on the Modernized Essex/Hancock class CVA's were not able to efficiently operate newer and larger aircraft such as the F-4 Phantom and A-6 Intruder so during their Vietnam era deployments they normally operated the F-8 Crusader and A-4 Skyhawk or A-7 Corsair with a greater emphasis on light attack rather than all weather heavy attack aircraft.

The limitation in aircraft operational flexibility led to their withdrawl from service in the late 1960's so in general the CVS carriers stayed in service a bit longer lasting until the mid 1970's and in the case of the Lexington - into the 1980's as a training carrier until it was replaced by the Midway class Coral Sea. To make it confusing however the US Navy reverted to the general multi-role CV designation for all its carriers in the early 1970's regardless of whether or not they were modified to handle both strike and ASW aircraft so carriers were redesignated even in the reserve fleet with no modifcations received.

In terms of exterior appearance the Lexington in its later angled deck configuration has been kitted on and off over the years and it is probably as close to the 1970's era Oriskany as you will find.

[evensplit]

Try....
Welcome to (http://www.ussoriskanyonline.com) and Oriskany Museum and USS Oriskany Reunion Association (http://www.ussoriskany.com)

The Oriskany was launched as a straight deck and served through 1956 with a straight wooden deck. Aluminum angled Deck came along in 1959-1960. She was decommissioned for the last time in 1976. (She was considered for re-activation in 1981).

4 essex class carriers are museums now: Lexington in Corpus Christi Texas, USS Intrepid in New york City, USS Yorktown in USS Charleston SC, and USS Hornet in Alameda California are all Essex class carriers in the same general configuration as Oriskany.

We tried to get Revell to start production of their Oriskany model a few years ago - but it was going to be too costly. The only models that you'll find fairly common nowadays are on ebay, and they're currently going for around $350.

[SelkieDVM]

Thanks guys! This is very interesting. I'll see if I can find a model of Lexingtion then. I visited the Yorktown once many years but I don't remember much. Funny thing is I have a brother in Charleston but didn't think to tour the carrier again when I visited him last summer. Don't think I'll get I chance to get down there again before the Oriskany trip. Oh well...

Thanks again.

[DA Aquamaster]

Don't feel too bad about missing the Yorktown.

Both the CV-10 and CV-34 were modernized under the SCB-27 program. However the CV-10 was an SCB-27A conversion with hydraulic catapults completed in 1953 as a CVA and further modernized with an angled deck and hurricane bow under the SCB-125 program in 1955. However in the late 50's the CVA-10 was reassigned to the ASW role along with the other hydraulic catapulted SCB-27A/SCB-125 carriers as a CVS.

The CV-34 on the other hand was the prototype SCB-27 modernized to that standard in 1951 and was the last SCB-125 modernized carrier but in 1959 became the only carrier completed to the much more comprehensive SCB-125A standard. Among other things during this modernization, the hydraulic catapults were replaced with steam catapults and the aluminum flight deck was added. Given that she had steam catapults, she remained in the CVA role throughout her career.

So in short, not even counting the numerous refits each ship received or the post fire repairs and changes to the CVA-34, their modernization programs were different which impacted their internal layout and deck plans and the CV-34 was pretty unique among Essex class carriers.

[ReefHound]

There are/were deck plans available for the Oriskany although due to refits they should not be used for planning penetration routes.

[firechuk]

I have done the Oriskany twice and am getting set to go again in two weeks. While browsing at my LDS for something else in a catalog, I found some renderings of the Mighty O as she sits now that could came in sizes from place mat to poster. From the picture, my own photos, dive op videos and memory they seemed like something that may be of help to new divers as far as orienting them to the layout. I have to be in the shop tomorrow. I will look for it again and let you know what I find.

[santafejoe]

Lilla the model is out there what you will have to do is go to one or two of the Major Book Stores look thru both Fine Scale Modeler magazine or Sea Classic s Magazine and you should be able to find a web sight or a hobby store that sells nothing but Military Model Kit s. These are two of the best Magazines out there and should help you . I have used both Magazines on a project i was doing a few year s ago and found what i needed. Good Luck.

[SelkieDVM]

Thanks I'll check that out.:D

[firechuk]

Lilla, sorry for the delay, but I found what I was looking for. It is in the Inovative Scuba catalog. www.inovativescuba.com. It's in the section with fish and coral ID slates. The renderings come in three sizes - the first is about the size of a fish ID card - it will fit in your logbook binder, the second and third are wall sized, 20"x20" and 20'x30", and for my budget, they are a bit pricey. But take a look. I hope it helps.

[pcdiver19]

heres a link to a few videos of the USS Oriskany... theres videos of the sinking, and also the Navy's EOD doing the first dive on it, and also an 18 minute video of a complete scooter tour of the ship, from the island that is around 70ft, all the way to the bottom (around 220ft).

Oriskany video, diving and sinking (http://www.divemightyo.com/oriskany_videos.html)

[Tom Smedley]

Some great planners are the Art to Media Dive Maps. They are detailed artist renderings of the Oriskany There are two, one showing just the superstructure and the other showing the whole ship.

[2Tours N Iraq`]

Here is a link to the USS Oriskany model page (http://www.motionmodels.com/ships/cv/cv34.html) by Master Builder Mike Czibovic. Of course, this model is the original deck plans prior to being modernized. The contact info for purchasing the (completed model) is Joel Rosen at 1-800-866-3172 from 10 AM to 5:30 PM weekdays or by email at joel@motionmodels.com. Please note that most master model builders will use a generic class model then customize it to the specific piece they are working on so it might not have come from a USS Oriskany kit. I hope this helps.

[mike_s]

While this isn't a model, you might check out the cool new wreck diagrams you can get for the Oriskany dive.

from Innovative Scuba Dive Map Cards (http://www.divesports.com/Innovative-Scuba-Dive-Map-Cards-p/is-lb-11xx.htm)

http://www.divesports.com/v/vspfiles/photos/IS-LB-11xx-3.jpg

http://www.divesports.com/v/vspfiles/photos/IS-LB-11xx-4.jpg

http://www.divesports.com/v/vspfiles/photos/IS-LB-11xx-5.jpg

http://www.divesports.com/v/vspfiles/photos/IS-LB-11xx-6.jpg

[SelkieDVM]

Those are pretty cool - I may well order them. Thanks to all for your help!

[pcdiver19]

ive wanted to dive this wreck since it was sunk... and where i live isnt but about 2.5 hrs from pensacola, and i believe its about 7 miles offshore? i want to wait til i have more training, because i want to be able to go to the bottom safely, but i definetly want to dive this one soon

[DA Aquamaster]

I am thinking it is more like 21 miles offshore.

[2Tours N Iraq`]

Unless you're a technical diver, going to the bottom while diving the Mighty O is well beyond recreational limits. The flight deck lies in between 130 and 140 feet of water. The superstructure rises up to about 80 feet or so. I have not dived the wreck yet so I don't know anything about the conditions. DA Aquamaster is right in that it is about 21 miles offshore. I've also heard through the grapevine it is tough to get on a charter on spur of the moment as they are usually booked about a year or so in advance but that wouldn't stop me from calling around to see if any local charters had a cancellation.

Check out the Divespots Oriskany Page (http://www.divespots.com/scuba/view.divespot?spotID=330) for more information and GPS coordinates on the wreck.

[djones103]

I plan on diving the Oriskany June12-22 and have been doing tons of research. Here is a cool site:
USS Oriskany (http://glewis.us/Oriskany.htm) I also have a unit persepective, my dad was on the 1956 Westpac tour. Here's another cool site: Welcome to MBT Divers! (http://www.saveadive.com/category.sc?categoryId=17)

Good luck

[Pipnaintez]

Unless you're a technical diver, going to the bottom while diving the Mighty O is well beyond recreational limits. The flight deck lies in between 130 and 140 feet of water. The superstructure rises up to about 80 feet or so. I have not dived the wreck yet so I don't know anything about the conditions. DA Aquamaster is right in that it is about 21 miles offshore. I've also heard through the grapevine it is tough to get on a charter on spur of the moment as they are usually booked about a year or so in advance but that wouldn't stop me from calling around to see if any local charters had a cancellation.

Check out the Divespots Oriskany Page (http://www.divespots.com/scuba/view.divespot?spotID=330) for more information and GPS coordinates on the wreck.

You are very right in the fact that going beyond the flight deck is a technical dive. It it 212 fsw to the sand. However it is not nearly as hard to find a charter to the Oriskany as you think. I did a trip on the Oriskany in March. I live in Houston Tx and decided on a Friday at 11am that I wanted to do the dive. I called up MBT divers and was on the charter H20 Below at 8am the next morning heading out to the Oriskany. Last week me and a couple friends decided to go again and booked a trip through pensecola dive company for this coming Saturday.

Here are some pics from my previous dive.

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_flag_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor1_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor2_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor3_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor4_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor5_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor6_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_indoor7_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_outdoor1_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_outdoor2_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_outdoor3_400.jpg

http://www.schalltech.com/junk/orisk_deco.jpg

I hope you enjoy them!