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fishcall
February 20th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Hi,
I am planing a diving trip and am prone to sea sickness. Years ago I used the Transderm scop scopolamine patch and it worked well until I accidently rubbed it off taking my mask on and off. A little while later I was geting sick. I was wondering if anyone had tried putting the patch somewhere other than behind the ear? Would it work the same if I applied it to a hairless area on my hip? Anyone tried this? Thank you.

Papa_Bear
February 20th, 2008, 12:36 AM
Hi,
I am planing a diving trip and am prone to sea sickness. Years ago I used the Transderm scop scopolamine patch and it worked well until I accidently rubbed it off taking my mask on and off. A little while later I was geting sick. I was wondering if anyone had tried putting the patch somewhere other than behind the ear? Would it work the same if I applied it to a hairless area on my hip? Anyone tried this? Thank you.

No! It is designed to deliver the medication as close to the inner ear as possible! I am not a doctor, but I play doctor once in a while! :eyebrow:

Water Bug
February 20th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Will not work in any other area. You can try to shave a small area behind the ear. If it is clean and dry it should stick. There are some really good over the counter pills that are non drowsy but Transderm V is potent. Word of advice - be sure to switch ears between dosages - I made this mistake before and had extremely blurred vision.

Skyjunky
February 20th, 2008, 12:57 AM
You can ask your doc for the pill form of the patch. Scopace

Damselfish
February 20th, 2008, 01:31 AM
besides clean and dry, sticking a bandaid over it can help too.

DiveMaven
February 20th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I wear a patch to boat dive (and fly) and what I do is make sure to clean the area behind my ear well with alcohol. Then after sticking the patch on, I cut off the ends of a (clear) waterproof bandaid and stick the two pieces on the patch, anchoring them firmly to my skin. I've found that the clear bandaids are the stickiest and have never lost a patch.

teknitroxdiver
February 20th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Where are you putting it behind your ear? Put your finger right 'behind' your earlobe, where it's kinda soft. Just a bit up and back from there is where it goes. Your mask shouldn't get down in there to mess with it. Maybe throw a piece of waterproof medical tape over it.

Scotttyd
February 20th, 2008, 07:37 PM
You can ask your doc for the pill form of the patch. Scopace

I will preface this by stating I am a pharmacist so I do have somewhat of a clue of what I am saying. The pill in my opinion is not a good choice, much much more of a chance of side effects (mainly blurred vision, drowsiness, etc) not good list for one diving. Also this is the same drug that is often used as a date rape drug. The patch is a low dose and the reason it is used behind the ear is that the low amount of drug only gets to the site of action (the inner ear) and thus systemic side effects are minimal. It will not work if placed elsewhere. An alternative is meclizine or antivert, it is available without a prescription, very inexpensive (ask the pharmacist for it as you can get a bottle of 100 for about the same price as a pack of 8 that sits on the shelf). This pill does not cause as much drowsiness as dramamine and if it bothers you, it only lasts 8-12 hours and you can stop taking it prior to a dive if you are on a cruise ship

twinkles
February 20th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Hmmm. Now I have some research to do. My doc told me that it didn't matter where I put it. The drug was going into the blood stream not bee lining from behind the ear to the middle ear. I am not arguing, cause I have no idea, just sharing what I was told. Now that I have conflicting info, and I am going to have to reconcile it somehow or other.

Scotttyd
February 20th, 2008, 10:19 PM
Hmmm. Now I have some research to do. My doc told me that it didn't matter where I put it. The drug was going into the blood stream not bee lining from behind the ear to the middle ear. I am not arguing, cause I have no idea, just sharing what I was told. Now that I have conflicting info, and I am going to have to reconcile it somehow or other.

I can find no references to placing it anywhere else. Is it going to hurt you? proabably not. Is it going to be beneficial? maybe Yes there are measurable blood levels, but I believe the concentration is higher near the site of application, where the vestibular nerve is, therefore moving the patch aware from here will potentially decrease the benefit. You can try it and see how it works, and report back to others. I believe a lot of personal characteristics can cause variable absorption (body fat amount is one) and placing the patch behind the ear reduces these variables.

By the way from the companies website.
Patients who expect to participate in underwater sports should be cautioned regarding the potentially disorienting effects of scopolamine. A patient brochure is available.

I would definately not use the patch on a complex dive without first seeing how it affects you in a simple dive/pool dive first.

my 2 cents worth

teknitroxdiver
February 20th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Hmmm. Now I have some research to do. My doc told me that it didn't matter where I put it. The drug was going into the blood stream not bee lining from behind the ear to the middle ear. I am not arguing, cause I have no idea, just sharing what I was told. Now that I have conflicting info, and I am going to have to reconcile it somehow or other.
While I don't necessarily agree with the thought of putting the patch anywhere, I do agree that it's placement is not to allow direct access to the inner ear. If this was the case, the ear you put it behind would be fine, but what about your other ear? You'd have to wear two patches for it to work like that.

twinkles
February 21st, 2008, 07:35 PM
Yea I looked around last night and every site I found said put it behind the ear. So I will put it behind the ear. I got them because I am going on a live-aboard. Don't want to be sick for a week. Oh boy. they have you do a shallow Orientation dive the first day. But still I will have to ponder this orientation thing.

FunkyDiver
February 21st, 2008, 07:56 PM
I've seen several references about ginger as a good alternative remedy for seasickness. Mythbusters did an episode on motion sickness and one of their conclusions was that ginger was a viable method to help prevent it. The March 2008 issue of Scuba Diving magazine has an article about medicines and whether or not you should use them for diving. Again ginger is mentioned. Take 1000mg 4-6 hours before you get on the boat and again before you leave the boat. It mentions Dramamine and Bonine. They specifically state that Dramamine should not be used while diving, even claiming that it is unsafe for diving. So if you are worried you could try ginger since it is a natural herb and readily available at most drug stores. Good luck!

Scotttyd
February 21st, 2008, 11:34 PM
Another non-drug remedy is the pressure point wrist bands, I have had pregnant patient's state that they work wonders. I am usually skeptical of things such as that, but I have heard many good things about it. FYI Bonine is the same as the antivert or meclizine mentioned earlier. Definately do not use dramamine, causes way to much drowsiness to be safe for diving in my opinion.

Dakkon
February 22nd, 2008, 09:29 AM
I haven't bothered to look around much but considering that you have TWO ears and you only place it behind ONE... I'm assuming that the vestibular system of the opposing ear will also be affected by the medication, which leads me to be very skeptical about whether or not placement on the body actually matters.

You've got good circulation behind your ear... but still, blood supply at this point isn't going to reach from one ear and then to the other before traveling back to the heart... but the presence of good blood flow that's close to the surface may be the reason for preferred placement. I'd guess this is more likely than any other rationale and if so, you should be fine placing it anywhere else where you've got good blood flow. If you can place it behind the ear, you should be able to place it on your carotid on your neck (either side of your windpipe, or in the gap just above your clavicle)... since this is only a millisecond downstream from the arterial blood behind your ear... and considering that you need a loading dose, the drug isn't going to be breaking down that quickly... so that means you'll be fine placing it there. I'd call your MD to be sure this was ok, because you may not want it to absorb quite that fast, but sure would be a lot more accessible - anyway, call the MD and he'll be able to tell you yay or nay on the carotid ... jugular... over the phone.

You may also want to try, as someone else suggested, a pill form of a similar medication. Here are a few I found with a quick search, along with their side effects:
Scopolamine -- most commonly prescribed medication for motion sickness. It must be taken before the onset of symptoms. It is available in patch form that is placed behind the ear 6 - 8 hours before travel. The effects last up to 3 days. Side effects may include dry mouth, drowsiness, blurred vision, and disorientation.
Promethazine -- take 2 hours before travel. The effects last between 6 - 8 hours. Side effects may include drowsiness and dry mouth.
Cyclizine -- most effective when taken at least 30 minutes before travel. It is not recommended for children younger than 6, and side effects are similar to scopolamine.
Dimenhydrinate -- take every 4 - 8 hours. Side effects are similar to scopolamine.
Meclizine -- most effective when taken 1 hour before travel. It is not recommended for children under 12, and side effects may include drowsiness and dry mouth.

Scotttyd
February 22nd, 2008, 11:12 AM
Scopolamine -- most commonly prescribed medication for motion sickness. It must be taken before the onset of symptoms. It is available in patch form that is placed behind the ear 6 - 8 hours before travel. The effects last up to 3 days. Side effects may include dry mouth, drowsiness, blurred vision, and disorientation.
Promethazine -- take 2 hours before travel. The effects last between 6 - 8 hours. Side effects may include drowsiness and dry mouth.
Dimenhydrinate -- take every 4 - 8 hours. Side effects are similar to scopolamine.


personally avoid oral scopolamine - same medication as transdermscop but more systemic side effects.
Promethazine - phenergan - too sedating to dive with, generally it is not recommende to drive while taking - aka Kennedy crashing his car in DC (although he was also on Ambien)
Dimenhydrinate - aka dramamine - several posts already mention not to take, not safe to dive with - too sedating, although it also causes trouble urination - no peeing in the wet suit!!!!

David P
February 22nd, 2008, 11:27 AM
By the way from the companies website.
Patients who expect to participate in underwater sports should be cautioned regarding the potentially disorienting effects of scopolamine.

boy did I find that out the hard way! I was at 120 fsw, and just bonked out!!!!

Another word of caution. I guess the drug in the patch is the same drug used to dilate your eyes. If you rub the patch then rub your eye... people on the boat freak out over one of your eyes being wide open and the other being a pin point, call the coast guard, put you on O2, and send your ass off to the hyperbaric chamber!

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