Deep Diver Training - PADI vs IANTD

[wwdiver]

I was just wondering what the main differences were between the PADI and IANTD Deep Diver courses (apart from the obvious differences that IANTD is more expensive and takes longer to complete).

To put this question into context, I am looking to expand my area of knowledge and techniques so I can eventually move to deeper wreck dives...so my thinking is that IANTD will be "better" as a foundation course.

Thanks in advance.

[MechDiver]

There is really little in common between PADI and IANTD when it comes to technical dive instruction.

IMO, the only choice is IANTD. You can go to their website and review the courses, equipment requirements and get a list of instructors in your area.

Of course they are longer and more expensive.

MD

[O-ring]

MechDiver once bubbled...
There is really little in common between PADI and IANTD when it comes to technical dive instruction.

IMO, the only choice is IANTD. You can go to their website and review the courses, equipment requirements and get a list of instructors in your area.

Of course they are longer and more expensive.

MD
He penetrated
the Dos Ojos Cave.

Explored the
Nippo Maru.

Survived
4 years in
Special Forces.

Logged 3500 dives.

And he's a
TEC DEEP DIVER.

[MechDiver]

O-ring once bubbled...


And he's a
TEC DEEP DIVER.

Does that mean he dives deep technically, or technically deep dives :confused:

And, isn't that Nippo thing a lighter??

[O-ring]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Does that mean he dives deep technically, or technically deep dives :confused:

And, isn't that Nippo thing a lighter??
A lighter...hahahaha...I like the female ad too...

She's seen what
few women have.

The deep caves
of Mexico.

The belly of
the Andrea Doria.

The 110-foot deep home
of the Frontenac.

And she's a
TEC DEEP DIVER.

[Cave Diver]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Of course they are longer and more expensive.


But do they teach you the proper use of the Fido Stage?

[roakey]

O-ring once bubbled...

The belly of
the Andrea Doria.

Which is of course deeper than the maximum depth limit for a PADI TEC Deep Diver, so obviously she got further training somewhere else. :)

Roak

[MikeFerrara]

wwdiver once bubbled...
I was just wondering what the main differences were between the PADI and IANTD Deep Diver courses (apart from the obvious differences that IANTD is more expensive and takes longer to complete).

To put this question into context, I am looking to expand my area of knowledge and techniques so I can eventually move to deeper wreck dives...so my thinking is that IANTD will be "better" as a foundation course.

Thanks in advance.

My guess is that any one you find teaching the PADI course is also an instructor for IANTD or TDI or someone.

I wouldn't count on the IANTD course taking longer or costing more. You wouldn't believe how fast I have see this card issued. The PADI class requires aminimum of twelve dives and a good deal of class time. The IANTD course (in theory requires about the same number of dives...6 dives for Advanced Nitrox combined with Deep Diver and ^6 dives required for Technical Diver.

The big advantage I see to IANTD is that you can do Normaoxic Trimix at the same time as the Technical Divers class. If you do it this way you can avoid diving deep on air.

[MechDiver]

Cave Diver once bubbled...


But do they teach you the proper use of the Fido Stage?

I personally excelled in Bark 1 and Bark 2. I would not, however, eat the doggie biscuit.

During Rescue we were introduced to the Cat Litter. Does that count?

MD

[MechDiver]

roakey once bubbled...

Which is of course deeper than the maximum depth limit for a PADI TEC Deep Diver
Roak

The town municipal pool?

MD

[Cave Diver]

MechDiver once bubbled...
I personally excelled in Bark 1 and Bark 2. I would not, however, eat the doggie biscuit.

During Rescue we were introduced to the Cat Litter. Does that count?

MD

I am thinking about enrolling in the advanced Sit and Stay class.

There's also a Roll over and Play dead class that sounds pretty interesting. I think it's a prerequisite to the Rescue class, but I'm not sure... Mebbe O-ring knows?

When you are ready for some real technical diving, be sure to take the SMF (surface marker feline) class. It takes excellent bouyancy and trim control to get a cat under water, much less deploy one as a marker device. (no offense to our resident cat who has been much too quiet lately :D )

[Cave Diver]

wwdiver once bubbled...
To put this question into context, I am looking to expand my area of knowledge and techniques so I can eventually move to deeper wreck dives...so my thinking is that IANTD will be "better" as a foundation course.

Thanks in advance.

I did my "Basics" through PADI (BOW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox)

I started my "Technical" through IANTD (Nitrox, Deep Diver, Advanced Nitrox).

A lot of it comes down to the instructor, as always, but I think that the IANTD courses provide more information and builds a more solid foundation. Having taken both PADI and IANTD nitrox courses I have a good basis for comparison. It also seems that the IANTD courses allow the intstructor more discretion in the way they teach.

If you are considering going down a path leading to more advanced diving, I would vote for IANTD.

[wwdiver]

Thanks Cave Diver...your comments are much appreciated.

[WYDT]

I know you didn't ask about it but I'd also suggest looking into GUE.

www.gue.com (http://www.gue.com)

Some of the best technical instructors in the world are GUE... not saying no other agencies have good instructors just that GUE has many of the best.

DSAO!

[Pez de Diablo]

A good link to a previous discussion about the DSAT/PADI Tec/Rec course is located here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18361

I found it very interesting and it helped me in choosing a course.

[LUBOLD8431]

Ha, ha, ha ,hahahahahaha........... GUE??? For Technical training??? Ummmm.... i would hope not... GO IANTD.... Its the only way to dive deep. That pro-GUE post sounded like an advertisement for them... hey, thats not you Jarrod, is it???? No, really, I have no ill will for GUE, i just hope they go away quietly. :)

[bwerb]

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
Ha, ha, ha ,hahahahahaha........... GUE??? For Technical training??? Ummmm.... i would hope not... GO IANTD.... Its the only way to dive deep. That pro-GUE post sounded like an advertisement for them... hey, thats not you Jarrod, is it???? No, really, I have no ill will for GUE, i just hope they go away quietly. :)

OK, I'll take the bait and bite at this...what is your derision for the GUE path? What is it about their training which you feel would better serve the dive community if they went away? I see from your profile you are a dive instructor and shop manager, I'm just curious as to your rather interesting response. Care to enlighten us?

[wwdiver]

Thanks to all and thanks to Pez de Diablo for the excellent link to the previous discussion...it was certainly an eyeopener!!

[WYDT]

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
Ha, ha, ha ,hahahahahaha........... GUE??? For Technical training??? Ummmm.... i would hope not... GO IANTD.... Its the only way to dive deep. That pro-GUE post sounded like an advertisement for them... hey, thats not you Jarrod, is it???? No, really, I have no ill will for GUE, i just hope they go away quietly. :)

Nope not Jarrod and your reply is quite amusing.... care to elaborate on why you think IANTD is superior to GUE?

BTW: I did not bash any other agency in my post I merely recommended the original poster consider GUE if they hadn't before. :confused:

[LUBOLD8431]

Ok, I will spill my guts and get all you guys pissed at me... but oh well, you asked for it... My problem with GUE in general is the way they try to brainwash you and tell you exactly how to dive... Its like a whole bunch of little Hitlers diving around the caves in FLorida, and elsewhere now. I dont like being told that in order to take a class, my equipment needs to be of some certain type and i may have to buy new equipment. I have done some technical diving, and I am sorry, but I love my poseidons and my high pressure tanks. I also like my Mares Quattro fins. ANother thing that drives me nuts about GUE, is they feel that eveyone should use Trimix for any dive deeper than 100 feet. I think that is ridiculous. I have dove deep on air, and it gets you ready for the Trimix class, which I dont plan on using under 150 feet. Everyone has their opinion, i guess. Its just we get their students in our shop to fill trimix to do the Crane wreck at 145, and they say, oh thats what GUE does, so thats why we use it. They cant explain it. Maybe its just the ones i deal with in the Boston area. MAJOR ISSUE WITH GUE: About two years ago or so, we had a guy from my area go down to Florida and take a Tech 1 class. He then got fills from us for 50 % o2 for deco. About 3 months after that , he comes in and says he wants 100%. I ask him, did you take another class??? He says no, GUE just changed the standards and now, he can use 100% o2 for deco also. SO, after a class where he only used up to 50% as a deco gas, now, they just decide to let everybody use 100%. I dont get that how GUE can just change the standard, and without any further training about high o2 deco mixes, he can now use it. It blows my mind. :bonk: That, in a nutshell, is why i dont like GUE and I never will.... GO IANTD!!!!!

[WYDT]

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
....

Ok, I can respect your opinion much more with an actual argument rather than just "hahaha", you're entitled to that.

On some of the issues you note... GUE doesn't make everyone buy the same exact piece of gear and it doesn't all have to be XXX brand either. They do require a certain functionality of each piece of gear and eliminate the BS.

If you really look into DIR (which is what GUE is all about) you'll see the beauty behind it. I'm no mindless little Hitler diving around in caves in FL and I'm not even GUE trained. It wasn't widely known when I did my training. I've just found "DIR" to be the best and GUE has the best "DIR" instructors. It really works.. every single little piece of it. It works beautifully. Can you dive another way and survive? Sure, people do everyday. I simply believe that "DIR" is the best and safest way, not the ONLY way.

As far as your insight into GUE's Tech 1 program... students are taught all about MOD and O2 exposure and proper deco so they should technically be able to use ANY gas for deco that they want. This is one area GUE should be commended. You don't have to take Adv. Nitrox and deco procedures with GUE it's included in the tech 1 class. This stuff isn't rocket science.

[O-ring]

Ok, I will spill my guts and get all you guys pissed at me... but oh well, you asked for it... My problem with GUE in general is the way they try to brainwash you and tell you exactly how to dive... Its like a whole bunch of little Hitlers diving around the caves in FLorida, and elsewhere now. I dont like being told that in order to take a class, my equipment needs to be of some certain type and i may have to buy new equipment. I have done some technical diving, and I am sorry, but I love my poseidons and my high pressure tanks. I also like my Mares Quattro fins.
Nobody has a problem with Mares Quattro fins...I used them in my DIRF class and nobody said a word about them. As for the other stuff, they may suggest what they feel is best, but nobody is going to kick you out of a GUE class or make you feel like an ass just for having hp tanks or poseidons. They may talk to you about why you choose to use them and what they use, but they won't ridicule you.


ANother thing that drives me nuts about GUE, is they feel that eveyone should use Trimix for any dive deeper than 100 feet. I think that is ridiculous. I have dove deep on air, and it gets you ready for the Trimix class, which I dont plan on using under 150 feet.
I don't want to debate deep air with you...but I made a choice not to dive deep air based on my own experiences with narcosis. I get VERY noticeably narced deeper than 120 on air or nitrox...it doesn't matter. Most of my buddies never notice a change, but for some reason I find myself very susceptible. I have experienced it in cold dark water and in warm, 100' vis, water, so conditions don't seem to make a difference. It hits me like a light switch after 120'. I want to know how deep air prepares you for a trimix class? I am taking TDI trimix right now and we are not doing deep air. If the instructor had told me we were doing deep air beforehand, I would have walked out and found another instructor. What is it about deep air that prepares you for mix training?


Everyone has their opinion, i guess. Its just we get their students in our shop to fill trimix to do the Crane wreck at 145, and they say, oh thats what GUE does, so thats why we use it. They cant explain it. Maybe its just the ones i deal with in the Boston area.
I wouldn't let a couple lemmings that have no clue about why they are doing what they are doing reflect poorly on GUE.


MAJOR ISSUE WITH GUE: About two years ago or so, we had a guy from my area go down to Florida and take a Tech 1 class. He then got fills from us for 50 % o2 for deco. About 3 months after that , he comes in and says he wants 100%. I ask him, did you take another class??? He says no, GUE just changed the standards and now, he can use 100% o2 for deco also. SO, after a class where he only used up to 50% as a deco gas, now, they just decide to let everybody use 100%. I dont get that how GUE can just change the standard, and without any further training about high o2 deco mixes, he can now use it. It blows my mind. That, in a nutshell, is why i dont like GUE and I never will.... GO IANTD!!!!!
Agencies can change standards, although I am not familiar with this change in the GUE standard. What additional training does one need to go from 50% to 100%? Last time I checked, and I can't speak for all agencies, a TDI advanced nitrox card certifies you for anything above 40%. If he was already using 50%, isn't it likely he was also trained to use 100% but was just not using it for some reason? I seem to remember GUE tech 1 covering all the various high o2 deco mixes...

Why is IANTD so superior? Maybe I should switchover from TDI and GUE to IANTD...let us in on it because I am not sure what they are doing that is better than the others..

[Cave Diver]

wwdiver once bubbled...
I was just wondering what the main differences were between the PADI and IANTD Deep Diver courses (apart from the obvious differences that IANTD is more expensive and takes longer to complete).

To put this question into context, I am looking to expand my area of knowledge and techniques so I can eventually move to deeper wreck dives...so my thinking is that IANTD will be "better" as a foundation course.

Thanks in advance.

wwdiver once bubbled...
I was just wondering what the main differences were between the PADI and IANTD Deep Diver courses (apart from the obvious differences that IANTD is more expensive and takes longer to complete).

To put this question into context, I am looking to expand my area of knowledge and techniques so I can eventually move to deeper wreck dives...so my thinking is that IANTD will be "better" as a foundation course.

Thanks in advance.

The best reason to go with PADI is the introduction of their new SexTech Class (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22309)

I'll let O-ring post the ad for this one too...

(psst, O-ring check the latest issue of "Going Down" for the newest ad.)