New diver experiences

Just wanted to share my opinion and question the judgement of some diveguides on dive trips. I just returned from Maui and went on 6 dives. I really enjoyed them and thought that it couldn't have been more beautiful. However, on one dive the diveguide told us to signal when we reached 1500psi so we could return to the boat. I was first to reach 1500 and by the time I caught up to him I was at less than the 1500, we then began to make it back, he seemed to be very casual and slow at the return, I watched my air close as it reached 800 and we still had some way to go before ascending, he just kept giving me an ok sign when I would show him my air levels. By the time I surfaced I had 360psi and he told me that was good that I had plenty of air. Now, I was taught to always return with 500psi. I think he cut it kind of close, how about others out there? My other experience was with a dive guide that I was concerned didn't leave us a long enough surface interval and even kept us down approximately ten minutes longer than the dive chart I use (NASDS/SSI) says is allowable for nodecompression limits at 70ft. Should I have spoke up on the boat before we entered being so new I relied on him as the expert. Nothing has happenened and I had no problems at all, but I do feel uncomfortable now that I checked the tables and see we should have come up sooner. I did have my computer with me as it is my gauge as well, it did not alarm or indicate any danger. I will be more cautious though in the future with what the divemaster or guides are doing.

unfortunately this sort of thing can happen.I have had it happen to myself at 40m.One problem facing a dive guide of a group is that many different divers can cause delays due to equalisation,water and gear orientation and some divers are just plain ignorant.Ultimately the rule is to look after yourself first.No-one has the right to put you in danger and it was good to see that you were checking things out.Yes,I would have challenged him,in fact I would have torn a strip off of his hide.The fact is that he may be the guide but that can never replace your common sense.
I have heard manty excuses for people not sticking to table guidelines.One of the major ones is the computer.It is supposed to take into account the times at different depths.
That is fine for the guide,but others may not have their matabolisms or confidence.I believe that any dive leader needs to act in the safest manner possible,taking into account the least experienced and unconfident diver.Experienced divers with a sound briefing before hand will be fine by themselves.The bottom line is in future trust your own judgement and when you feel it's time to get out,then do so.
Cheers little Angel Ears,
The Gasman

Seaangel,

Sorry to hear about the mishaps. I will be on Maui in Sept. and plan on hooking up with "Captain Jonathan" but also plan on diving Molokini and the Cathedrals as well.

Would you care to share which dive shops you had the misfortunes with?

Thanks,

Hey SeaAngel,

I agree with Greg -
also remember just what a "guide" is - it is NOT someone who is diving for his/her own pleasure, but rather a person who is there to ensure YOUR safety and comfort during the dive. As such - it is not acceptable for this person to be anything but VERY conservative in how the dive is conducted - if you come out of the water feeling that your safety was compromised, you need to speak up and tell the dive leader and potentially even the outfit - they may not be aware of the situation and the dive leader may not perceive things the way you do...

I'm glad you came out good,
Dane

SeaAngel,
Your experience unfortunately, isn’t that uncommon. The more you dive, the more you will gain confidence in your own diving ability and as noted in the other responses, more confident in your own common sense. What helped me a lot in the beginning, was to make sure I understood what our goals of each dive were – tried to keep track of where the boat was during group dives and monitor my air within the realm of my own comfort level. When I felt it was time for me to head back, I did. Even if I ended up diving directly under the boat for 15 minutes! If I couldn’t locate the boat under water, I’d surface – find it – head back below and finish the dive, all within the comfort of my own direction. Keep thinking for yourself! Not to say don’t listen to experts, just listen with a healthy skepticism.

Seangel,

I am sorry that you had a bad experience with one of the groups. I would be curious to know where that was. If you were cruising a flat, shallow reef at 20' it would be less of an issue to me than if you were in a deeper or more complex environment.

Ultimately, we need to be 100% responsible for ourselves, along with our buddy.

I had a slightly scary experience this weekend, diving in a wonderful place called Mokolau or Hui Aloha CHurch in remote, Southeast Maui near my ranch. I was diving in rough, surging water along with a close friend who is an active special forces dive instructor who is in much, much better shape than I am.

The entry was a bit difficult, and it winded me a bit, and I was struggling to keep up and really sucking down air. It was my second dive with my new Dive Rite Tranpac II, which I hadn't gotten adjusted just right, and the weight pockets kept sliding to the front and I felt like I was fighting the BC as well as bouyancy as we surged through and around pinnacles.

It was my mistake that I didn't insist on stopping for a while so I could regroup and start fresh, but we were both anxious to see what lay beyond the giant rocks that guard the old Hawaiian church site and get max use from our air.

It caught up with me on the way back in, when we were bucking a bit of current and I could not believe how fast I was breathing down my HP 100 trying to keep up with my friend. There was about a 2 to 3' chop on the top, and we wanted to get in as close as possible before surfacing. We were up to about 20', between pinnacles, when I lost my buddy in the bubbles and stirred up silt, and couldn't tell which route he had taken. I waited about a minute, and then surfaced, with about 600psi on the guage. It was then that I realized how out of breath and stressed I was, and after looking for my buddy (who was circling below looking for me) I inflated my BCD and started slowly backswimming toward the black sand beach.

About 5 minutes later I got tossed by a big wave set onto one of the pinnacles, and the waves were crashing over me and breaking, and I couldn't breathe. I still had my primary in my right hand, and I was extremely happy to have saved some good air.

I rolled and dropped down and pulled my inflator to lose bouyancy, and the rocks kind of spitted me out. I resufaced and just boogied as fast as I could to the beach, and then stood in and knelt in the shallows till my breath and body caught up with me. My friend, when he surfaced, was surprised how fast I got in to the beach. He was still looking for me out by the rocks when I caught his attention.

In hindsight, my mistake was in not insisting on a slower pace and in making my partner aware that I was working so hard. For him, this was a Sunday stroll in the park. I've only been scuba diving about 6 months, and my body type is such that I like to move slow, and at slow, steady speeds I am usually fine for 2 or three hours of steady swimming without getting stressed. My partner knows this, and usually we're in perfect step, and it's probably my own ego, to a large extent, that didn't want to slow things down to match the conditions.

On the plus side, I've been swimming and snorkling these waters (this spot was a favorite spearfinshing spot for me in the '80's, but on calmer days) for decades, and my reactions kicked in when needed and I never got spooked.

Best Aloha,

Jonathan

My first dive was at the Molokini Crater where I came back to the boat with only 360psi left. The second tank we were at Turtle Town and all went well there air consumption was very good. I think I was more relaxed by then too. We were on the Frogman with Boss Frog. My brother set up the dive trips. I kind of went where he picked. Our second trip was with Trilogy to the Lani Cathedrals, this was the one that I felt the first surface interval was not long enough, the dive guide also took us back down to 63 feet on the second dive which maxed out the time remaining as well. I must say though that my air consumption was very good. In spite of these problems I thought both dives were fantastic. I took 4 rolls of film total. I also had a traumatic shore dive at Black Rock my first day in Maui. This was due to the current being much stronger than I was ready for. I had to surface ahead of my brother and get some assistance to reach the shore. Between the surf and current I was fairly tired and my legs were cramping on me. Luckily two other snorkelers were out there and helped me in. So after that dive the others seemed to exceed all expectations for me.
Jonathon, if you read this sorry I didn't get with you, but my family kept me quite busy every day. Maybe next year. I do hope I can come back next summer.

Seaangel,

You raise questions that have plagued most of us since we started! The dive shops on Maui that we dive with use the "loose buddy" system and do not have a lot of divers with one DM--those shops include Ed Robinson's, Maui Dive Shop and Lahaina Divers. Thus, the DM can keep an eye on everyone. When a diver or his/her buddy gets down to x lbs of air, they wave "bye-bye" to the DM and head toward the boat (whose direction the DM points out). It has always worked as planned. Now, I have to confess one thing: Barbara and I are almost always the last ones to reach the agreed air level and, so, we are usually with the DM to the bitter end.

I have never dived with Boss Frog, so I have no idea how his boats run. Sounds like a pb, though. My suggestion: try another shop when you return to Maui.

About air pressure on reboarding the boat: 500 lbs of air in your tank is useless once you are aboard! As you get more experienced you will find that you can comfortably get back on with less! Before the roof comes down, let me explain.

If you can see the boat "just above" you and are around 25 feet, you can "putter" around until your air gets to 300 lbs completely safely. Basically, you are doing your safety stop and you know exactly where you have to go!

That said, beginning divers need the attention of DM's because adrenaline is coursing throught their systems and their air consumption is high. That is why the DM should ask you about the number of dives you have done and when you last dived. Then he knows, in principle, who to watch. Your DM was not on the ball!

By the way, as you get more experienced, you will find that your air consumption will slow down--and you will have even less likelihood of things like you experienced on that dive happen.

By the way, the dive tables are, per force, more conservative than a computer. As you compare the two methods you will find that you almost always exceed your table limits with the computer. Mostly that is because your computer compensates for the ups and downs of the dive and the table has no way to do that! That little computer will free you up to do longer dives and more fun. And that is a real good reason to make certain that it is functioning properly! My message: that was really not a big problem on your dive, BUT your DM should have found out more about you so he could assure before the dive!

Finally, the outer wall of Molokini can be a challange sometimes. When we dive there we usually go deep and there is frequently some kind of current. Normally it is not the first choice dive for novices. The inner crater is a better choice. I know that is really not helpful to write at this point, but I do it to let you know that you probably went on a dive that was a little challanging to start with and you did just fine considering that you were with an inept DM. Sounds like you have the makings of a fine diver.

Joewr

Seaangel,

You could have given your divemaster and buddy the "low on air" sign and then the "up" sign. Any divemaster worth their certification would have pointed to you and your buddy and returned the "up" sign while they remained with the group below. You should never accept staying down if you think it is in violation of your tables or the standard rules of diving. The best divers are those who are extra cautious. This is common with newly certified divers and technical divers but unfortunately many experienced recreational divers and even a lot of divemasters forget "the rules".

As far as remaining psi goes, I agree with joewr. If you are in calm conditions and diving on a site with a line to the boat, it is fine to return with 300 psi. If the conditions are rough or you are shore diving or diving in an overhead environment or current, you should have more air left when you surface, sometimes as much as 1000 psi. As has been said before, it's up to you to make the responsible call to protect your safety and that of your buddy. Every diver must be her/his own divemaster.

Sounds like you had some good experiences on Maui, Seangel. There are certainly a lot of different conditions here.

The inside of Molokini crater is a rather forgiving location with minimal currents except late in the day when the trades are up. The back side of Molokini is a different story, and an advanced drift dive, but it sounds like you were inside the crater on one of the commercial moorings.

We usually hit the mooring line at about 600psi and do a safety stop at 15', where I watch fish & experiment with gear and buoyancy and just fool around till I'm at 300psi, and then I board the boat. There are lots of first time snorklers swimming around, and it's a very tame though beautiful environment with lots of fish.

Black Rock is also usually very forgiving; it's also a first-time snorkling spot right outside the Sheraton and you must have hit it on a very rare day to get pulled out into the current. I did hear about someone having a minor problem there last week. There were some big trades blowing, and I left the boat at the dock and we stuck to shore dives at Mala Wharf, Olowalu and Palauea which were all in the lee.

I'm glad you are ok and can smile about the experience.

Give us a call if you get back someday.

Best Aloha,

Jonathan