Everest vs the Andrea Doria

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simonk999

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So I was at the bookstore the other day, and read through some of "Deep Descent" and "Last Dive"; both, as you probably know, are about deep tech/wreck diving. Both talk about the Andrea Doria as the "Everest" of diving. It got me to thinking: while the barrier to climbing Everest is such that only the physically elite do it regularly, it's only a matter of mental toughness, if that, (which of course, mountain climbers also have) for divers to go deep. In other words, the reason why most of us don't climb Everest is because we can't. Most of us don't dive the Andrea Doria because we don't want to. I mean, I know that a lot of training and experience is required to do deep dives, but nothing holds you back if you have the technical expertise. Now, I'm not knocking anyone who dives deep; what I am saying is that comparing the Andrea Doria to Everest isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be to say that deep free-dives are like climbing Everest. I'd compare diving the Andrea Doria to extreme base jumping.
 
Hey SimonK9 - pardon my ignorance, but where is the Andrea Doria? I've never heard of it.

And in regard to only the 'elite' climbing Everest - that used to be true, but unfortunately these days they are taking tours up to the peak at some ridiculous number like 50 (or more?) a day - a couple of months ago a 15 yr old boy and a blind man made it to the top... "everybody is doing it" these days and leaving their garbage behind too, apparently.
 
Using depths of 180ft (54m) to 220ft (66m) for the Andrea Doria.

Comparing this to the everest of scuba diving is IMO wrong. Yes it is a reasonably challenging dive due to its depth, however, it isn't really that deep. Also, using its location as a measure of its dificulty, it is also not that dificult.

For the uninitiated, the wreck is some 7 hours offshore, in an area where the weather changes reasonably quickly, but not that quickly. In terms of climate it is pretty much the same as found in the mediteranean. It is certainly good enough that live aboards can tie up over it for several days at a time.

There are plenty of other wrecks like the BRITANNIC (sister ship to the titanic) that are semi-regularly dived (ie not just a 1 off trip, but not every weekend!) in conditions similar to the andrea doria. However, the Britannic is somewhat deeper at 120m (396 ft). In many ways dives like this are more akin to the 'everest' of diving, rather than the andrea doria (AD).

Unfortunately, the AD is reasonably easily reached, not beyond the training of most 'technical' divers, and well publicised. As such, it gets known as a 'do-able extreme dive'.

Jon T

http://www.geocities.com/titanicandco/britannic.html

This was first dived in 1976 by JC himself using air only! (390ft!!!)

http://www.divernet.co.uk/wrecks/britt199.htm
For an account of diving it

http://website.lineone.net/~britannic98/
The official brittanic website - look at some of the other dives they have done. The luisitania for example in the atlantic is particularly difficult
 
Well Simon -
at the risk of repeating others - you are giving me the impression that you:
a) Don't know a whole lot about mountaineering
b) Don't know a whole lot about Deep Diving
c) Don't have a clue about base jumping

and finally - need a good history lesson...
Everest is a walk up - they take tourists - you can do it if you want, the only elite thing about everest is coughing up the $$$ to do it.

It is my impression that deep dive as a matter of fact DOES require very good physical condition to be safe.

And the fact that the Andrea Doria is not that deep - the Britanic is at 400 feet and you have to get the shipping lane shut down to get to it - 40 minutes of bottom time will have you in for about 6 hours of deco... now that is extreme.

Base jumping involves a different type of adrenaline than diving or mountaineering does - and it is far less predictable.

Who told me I culd speak - no-one - that's the beauty of it, I'm a retired adrenaline junkie - and I'm happy to say that I am retired - I now participate in activities that I consider safe (Like diving) and guess what - I'm no longer loosing good friends once a year...

I do not see any point in comparing Everest to deep diving - it's apples and tomatoes - nothing to compare.

Anyway - <getting of the soap box>
I'm going diving,

Dane
 

Just a small note to point that there are two ways of climbing the Everest: with or without Oxygen.

It is true that with O2 it is much easier to reach the summit (making it "almost" a matter of money to organize the expedition), anyway IT IS a tough summit, and not everybody can make it. It requires techniques, skills and equipment, even if you do it with Oxygen.

Without oxygen only a few hundreds got to the summit.

I'm not saying we should compare the Everest with the Doria in diving, but as a diver who also climbs I wouldn't underestimate the Everest. If I had to choose between diving the Doria or climbing the Everest I rather would go for the Doria.

Sue
 
Wetdane said

>I do not see any point in comparing Everest to deep diving - it's apples and tomatoes - nothing to compare.

My point exactly. If you read my post, what I was saying was that those books about deep diving made a silly comparison, comparing the AD to Everest.

You say: It is my impression that deep dive as a matter of fact DOES require very good physical condition to be safe.

If you look at the pictures of some of the folks who did the AD, you wouldn't say that. Diving (deep or otherwise) doesn't require you to be in good physical shape (of course, it doesn't hurt).

And BTW, no need to impune my knowledge to get your point across.
 
It looks like we agree Simon - sorry about the thing on your knowledge...

Sue - I was not going to bring up the oxygen issue - as it further complicates matters - I have retired from serious mountaineering and no longer keep track of who runs the summit in a day with the latest hydro pak - with or without oxygen... I completely agree with you on your assesment of the climb.

Dane
 
The Doria gets a lot of press out here on the east coast (and thus the rest of the US) for a few reasons (my opinion) --

First -- because of the large number of divers that have died while diving her -- 13 deaths over the past 20 years, I believe.

Second -- Much of the diving that occurs on the Doria is done on boats based out of the NY/NJ area. As a result, there are frequent stories on the Doria in the northeast media -- which often feed the national media. Since this is a story that gets lots of media coverage and since it is likely one of the ONLY extreme diving sites known to the average journalist, it has received the "Everest" moniker.
Also, the sinking of the Doria was a national media event that many older folks around here still remember.

I agree with most other opinions -- these days, there are many other wrecks being dived that involve more risk. That being said, the AD has been an ACTIVE divesite for at least 20 years. 20 years ago, most people were diving the AD on air and nitrox/trimix/etc. were certainly still in the experimental stages. Scuba equipment was also somewhat less developed than today. As a result, back in 1980, the Andrea Doria probably WAS one of the more risky sites being dived on a regular basis. Things have obviously changed since that time. Today divers are exploring sites that 20 years ago were thought to be beyond the range of non-military divers.

Regarding Deep Descent -- very interesting book -- just finished reading it this past weekend. Provides some interesting history of technical wreck diving in the eastern US and the progression of gax mixing and equipment techniques. Not quite the "page turner" that "The Last Dive" is IMHO, but still a good read if you are interested in advanced forms of diving.
 
How about the Edmund Fitzgerald for our Everest? At 530 ffw in icy & often violent Lake Superior (and an illegal dive at that) only a handful of divers have made it to the wreck and back. It takes a lot of physical conditioning, planning and mental agility.
 

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