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View Full Version : Have any of you guys ever shot a real gun underwater, or as shark repellent?



Jackknife
February 15th, 2003, 01:45 PM
I heard that you can shoot the glock pistol underwater and that it can be used as protection against predators. What do you guys think about that? Bang Sticks are illegal in many states from what I understand.

I wonder what effects it would have underwater, and how far a bullet like a .45 or 9mm will travel underwater and still be effective enough to penetrate the skin of a big animal like a 12'+ shark? If it gets close shoot it right in the head or multiple shots in the gills or other areas.

Would it actually be dangerous to shoot underwater or is it more of a noice maker?

raybo
February 15th, 2003, 02:02 PM
1. Do they make the bullets waterproof now. I was raised that this was the biggest issue of having a gun (ammo) around water.

2. I truly don't know, but am curious. Does the ammo need the oxygen in the air to combust? Will it even go "bang"?

3. What about hearing protection if it does work? A large caliber handgun is loud in air, and I'd wear some kind of muff even on the surface. Given the density of water, the shockwave must do a number on the ears.

4. Is a Glock one of the new "synthetic" material items. Would think seawater would not be very freindly to steel!

roturner
February 15th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Jackknife once bubbled...
I heard that you can shoot the glock pistol underwater and that it can be used as protection against predators. What do you guys think about that? Bang Sticks are illegal in many states from what I understand.

I wonder what effects it would have underwater, and how far a bullet like a .45 or 9mm will travel underwater and still be effective enough to penetrate the skin of a big animal like a 12'+ shark? If it gets close shoot it right in the head or multiple shots in the gills or other areas.

Would it actually be dangerous to shoot underwater or is it more of a noice maker?

Protection from what? The only monsters in the deep are the ones between the divers ears. :)

R..

SARmedic
February 15th, 2003, 02:06 PM
The bullet will only travel a very short distance, even if you could fire it. They have long sticks that have high pressure canisters on the end that fire into sharks, but that is only in extreme situations. Sharks don't bother you unless you swim with a bag of chum or something.

Not to mention that it's probably illegal.

Lawman
February 15th, 2003, 03:21 PM
the ammo is waterproof. That plug of water in the
barrel should make for some interesting chamber]
pressures though. The slug would be moving so slow
and thru a very thick medium I doubt if it would go more
than about 3'.
I sure wouldn't do it.:eek:

DiverBuoy
February 15th, 2003, 03:34 PM
On this webpage you will find a video detailing everything you want to know about firing 9 different handguns underwater. It answers all the questions like

What happens when you shoot Glock 19 underwater ? How about a Colt 1911, S&W revolver, Sig Sauer P-229, Ruger 22? Over 9 different handguns in all are shot, tested and evaluated underwater. Are handguns effective underwater? How far and how fast will the bullet travel? Will the automatics cycle another round? Are revolvers better? How loud is it underwater and above water?

Underwater Shooting Tests and Evaluations (http://www.topglock.com/catalog/videos.htm)

detroit diver
February 15th, 2003, 03:41 PM
Bad link.



DiverBuoy once bubbled...
On this webpage you will find a video detailing everything you want to know about firing 9 different handguns underwater. It answers all the questions like

What happens when you shoot Glock 19 underwater ? How about a Colt 1911, S&W revolver, Sig Sauer P-229, Ruger 22? Over 9 different handguns in all are shot, tested and evaluated underwater. Are handguns effective underwater? How far and how fast will the bullet travel? Will the automatics cycle another round? Are revolvers better? How loud is it underwater and above water?

Underwater Shooting Tests and Evaluations (http://www.topglock.com/catalog/videos.htm)

DiverBuoy
February 15th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Fixed in your quote too.

narcT
February 15th, 2003, 04:33 PM
12+ foot shark? Where are you diving?

Considering I have seen photo's of shooting victims that took 33 9mm bullet hits before going down, I don't think a 12+ foot shark would be very impressed by a couple of 9mm bullets?

12ga might work, but then your back to the bang stick:bonk:

roturner
February 15th, 2003, 06:34 PM
narcT once bubbled...
12+ foot shark? Where are you diving?

Considering I have seen photo's of shooting victims that took 33 9mm bullet hits before going down, I don't think a 12+ foot shark would be very impressed by a couple of 9mm bullets?

12ga might work, but then your back to the bang stick:bonk:

If you ask me, shooting, or sticking a shark with anything is asking for a Darwin award.

My uncle caught a 3 ft long shark while trolling from a kayak once. He got it up to the boat before he realised what it was, pulled it up over the kayak like the large hairy and big-balled individual he was, stuck a knife in it's skull and "stirred". When he threw it back in the water it just swam away like nothing had happened.

My guess is that your ray-gun or whatever it was, even if you *were* to need help won't help. And if you tried to use it preventatively the encounter would go like this:

CHOMP
OH SH*T WHERE'S MY RAY-GUN :eek:
CHOMP
Got it :makeday:
CHOMP
Bang
Bang
CHOMP

Game over.

and some time later if you miraculously didn't kill your buddy in the process the shark dies from laughter.

Don't forget, sharks can move 20 times faster than divers. Ever try shooting a moving target from anything other than point-blank range? How about one 20 times faster than you? Ever try doing that in a medium 800 times more dense than air?

I mean, leave the gun at home. Even if guns *were* the panacea of self-protection they would be useless against anything big and fast enough to make you think you needed it.

R..

GTADiver
February 15th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Its hard enough to register a hand gun in Canada for legitimate reasons. Somehow, I dont think the CFC would accept u/w protection as an acceptable purpose. lol

Bob3
February 15th, 2003, 07:15 PM
BECO makes a .50 BMG powerhead.

That's the same round that has been known to knock out tanks. Just the thing for those pesky Jet Skis, which are more dangerous than sharks.


http://www.beco-products.com/images/product/MVC-230X.JPG
Here's the pic, by the way.

tnk120184
February 15th, 2003, 08:10 PM
Why in the world would you want too? Yes, you can fire weapons underwater, but accuracy, mechanical function of the weapon itself, and lethality are greatly deminished. Seem's to me if there really was a need for self-protection from predators while sport diving, something would have been made availiable years ago. Also, the weapons industry and those of us who enjoy recreational shooting have enough problems already without having divers carrying weapons for so called personal defense! Although brand new to diving, I do have considerable experience in weapons as I have been a military weapons trainer for over 18 years. Take my advice, dive somewhere else and leave the weapons at home!

raybo
February 16th, 2003, 08:38 PM
Bob3 oncec bubbled...

That's the same round that has been known to knock out tanks. Just the thing for those pesky Jet Skis, which are more dangerous than sharks.



I need one of those for my sailboat. Those things are worse than mosquitos.

Around here we've taken to referring to them as "Lake Lice"

dmdalton
February 16th, 2003, 10:00 PM
Here is the skinny from the "Top Glock" web site:

"Can I shoot my Glock underwater?

Just about any handgun will fire underwater -- at least once. :-) However, firing underwater is NOT recommended because it can have devastating effects on the pistol and the shooter -- a potentially dangerous activity that should only be utilized by trained personnel wearing proper equipment for protection against potential pressure wave effects of underwater detonation. The shock/pressure waves in water can really damage internal organs (ever heard of lithotripsy?). Shooting a pistol underwater can lead to property damage, serious bodily injury or even death.

NOTE: Glock, Inc., specifically disclaims any and all liability from anyone performing or attempting to perform underwater firing with a Glock pistol -- you do so at your own risk.

The Glock 17 may be equipped with an optional set of maritime spring cups for use in water environments. Maritime spring cups are not intended for submerged firing, but for surface use by special ops teams who operate in and around water. The maritime spring cups are two small parts within the firing pin assembly and are not included on any Model 17 sold by Glock (civilians can only get them through 3rd parties). They insure that water can pass by the firing pin within the firing pin channel, thus preventing the creation of hydraulic force within the firing pin channel -- which would slow the firing pin down, causing light primer strikes. With the special cups, the action will cycle reliably while submersed, if a little bit slower. NATO specification ammunition (such as Winchester's Ranger RA9124N) with waterproof sealed primers and case mouths is recommended.

Although you may install the maritime spring cups on any Glock model, *only* the Glock 17 was designed and intended to use the modified spring cups for aquatic firing -- and only then using 9mm ball ammunition to remain within acceptable pressure limits. The foolhardy who insist on living dangerously must keep several things in mind: The Glock 17 must be fully submersed underwater. There must not be any air left within the pistol as the muzzle is pointed towards the surface of the water after submersion to allow the air in the barrel to escape. Use only full metal jacket, ball-type ammunition because the water within the barrel can spread a hollow point out within the barrel upon firing. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet to the barrel and could catastrophically increase pressures. Even if the barrel doesn't burst, the expanded bullet would get even bigger upon exiting into the water and would slow down very quickly while tumbling. Accuracy would be terrible.

The marinized Glock 17 is primarily for use by various Special Warfare units operating in aquatic environments. At least one specialized Scuba diving group regularly uses G17's to dispatch sharks where they dive. The Glock 17 using NATO specification ball ammunition will completely penetrate a minimum of one 1/2" pine board at a distance of ten feet from the muzzle when fired underwater.

Trained personnel who use Glocks underwater know they must obey several rules:
1) use only a Glock Model 17 with amphibious spring cups (reliability issue);
2) use only 9mm FMJ subsonic, sealed primer ammo;
3) completely immerse the pistol and get *all* the air out of the barrel;
4) wear protective ear plugs, gloves, wet suit, face mask, etc.;
5) do not fire near solid objects or in enclosed spaces to prevent return
concussion.

However, any Glock -- even those not equipped with maritime spring cups -- will normally fire while submersed underwater. But doing so may generate excessive internal pressure and may cause the pistol to literally blow up. This is especially true with the use of high-pressure rounds (such as the .40 S&W/357 SIG) or hollow-point bullets.

I recall a reported incident where a Glockster on a boating holiday decided to show some friends how his Glock would fire underwater (because Tommy Lee Jones said so in the movies). He stuck his hand overboard, pulled the trigger and came back with a bunch of shredded plastic and a badly injured hand.

Another reported case was the Glockster who decided to try out his Glock 23 .40 S&W in the swimming pool after seeing pictures of Glocks being fired underwater on the web. He was totally submerged, with the gun, as he fired at a piece of wood on the bottom of his pool. The Glock did fire, the .40 S&W FMJ round left the barrel and went into the wood. The chamber also exploded and implanted shrapnel into his leg. Thinking that the water would muffle the blast, he did not wear hearing protection (the blast is actually about 4 times louder underwater). He is now mostly deaf in one ear and hears high-pitched tones most of his waking life.

As you can see, firing a pistol underwater is a *very* dangerous endeavor.
Several things could happen:
1) the firing pin may be slowed enough to not detonate the primer
(without the maritime spring cups)
2) the pistol could blow up in your hand;
3) the concussion could damage ears, eyes or internal organs;
4) the bullet may not go where you intend it to.

Even if you have the right equipment, know what you're doing and follow the rules -- the risks for underwater firing are minimized -- but not eliminated. Your pistol's barrel could be affected by water obstruction and your body by damaging concussion. By using hollow point bullets (water may cause the bullet to expand in the barrel), high pressure ammo, etc. -- you're asking for an underwater kaBoom! It you fire near solid or hard objects, the bouncing concussion can cause extensive, perhaps even fatal external/internal tissue injury. Why risk it?
Rev 2/2000 by JT ©2000 Blue Ridge Bullseye."

Moral of the story? If you want protection get a "Bang Stick"

Dave D.

GTADiver
February 17th, 2003, 01:41 AM
Thanks for sharing that info. Learn something new every day on this board.
Thanks

Cave Diver
February 17th, 2003, 01:50 AM
And to think, the only reason I aint tried my Glock underwater yet is cuz I figured the laser sight wasnt water proof...

Damn pesky trigger fish!:m16:

roakey
February 17th, 2003, 02:25 AM
Useless information I've stumbled upon.

Years ago when I was young and stupid (I'm no longer young) I fired a .357 magnum bangstick into a rock wall to see what it was like. The wall reflected so much of the blast back at me I just about saw double. Note to self: Don't do that again. Next time was a rock in the middle of nowhere and it wasn't nearly as bad. However, immediately after it went off a shark showed up to investigate the noise. New note to self: Stop shooting the thing off if you don't need to!

The bangstick was a "contact firearm" for lack of a better term. What caused a huge amount of damage were the gasses that follwed the bullet into the body, not necessarily the bullet itself. I would imagine this is how you'd deploy a Glock as well -- given that most sharks do a couple of "drive bys" before attacking theory is you could pop them as thet went by. If it's a one-shot attack you're not going to be able to do anything, that's a given.

There was a spear called a "Shark Dart" in the late 70s that ran on some kind of compressed gas that was just a giant hypodermic needle that you'd hit the shark with and even though there wasn't any projectile, it'd inflate the shark and send it up, safely out of your way. Never saw one used, however.

There was a Stainless Steel 1911 made for a number of years by Randall. They had an underwater firing test and the oddity was that if you fired a .45 into water it penetrated 6-8', max. However, firing it underwater resulted in the bullet travelling 15-18'.

Barrel obstructions. Oddly, a barrel full of water isn't as much a concern as a "plug" at the end of the barrel. Even a little snow in the muzzle of a shotgun can cause "complete and rapid dissassembly of the firearm" as we used to call it. However there's all sorts of stories about people having a squib and putting a bullet in the barrel right in front of the chamber and firing a round behind it without any kind of explosion (though it's certainly not any good for the firearm).

My wife did this with a 1911 in .45 where the first bullet was halfway down the barrel. Bulged the barrel and locked up the gun but good on the barrel bushing, but no explosion. Had to hammer the gun open, but after dropping in another barrel the gun was as good as new and is in use today (and I have the old barrel to show my students "Don't do this!").

Roak

Bob3
February 17th, 2003, 05:44 AM
raybo sez:
I need one of those for my sailboat
The .50 cal BMG as a powerhead/Bangstick round is great, but it's still a contact device.

Here's what ya need for stand-off deterrence:
http://www.west.net/%7Elpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml

Remember now, this is to be used ONLY for self defense, as Jet Skis are WAY more dangerous to divers than sharks !!!
;)

Jeffe
February 17th, 2003, 09:13 PM
raybo once bubbled...


I need one of those for my sailboat. Those things are worse than mosquitos.

Around here we've taken to referring to them as "Lake Lice"
Jet Skis= Lake Lice
Geeze !
I really like that !
Yep, i'm gona' get me one of them .50 cal Powerheads for my Rhino Speargun.

Jeffe
February 17th, 2003, 09:19 PM
raybo once bubbled...


I need one of those for my sailboat. Those things are worse than mosquitos.

Around here we've taken to referring to them as "Lake Lice"
Jet Skis= Lake Lice
Geeze !
I really like that !
Yep, i'm gona' get me one of them .50 cal Powerheads for my Rhino Speargun.

RICHinNC
February 18th, 2003, 01:06 PM
while on vacation in the mid east...i picked up this u.s. army surplus back pack nuke from some guy named ossama.

will it work underwater?

Bob3
February 18th, 2003, 01:47 PM
The Army didn't have the backpack nukes, those were for the Seals & Marines.
The military handle for the critters is SADM, [cue eerie music]:tease:
stands for "Special Atomic Demolition Munition".

You can order the training film from Bechtel: http://www.osti.gov/historicalfilms/opentext/data/0800031.html

RICHinNC
February 18th, 2003, 03:20 PM
cool deal there bob3...thanks about 2kilitons worth....while im at it...got any films about this xtra terrestrial shoulder filed neutron impeller blow your a-- to vapor gun i bought while in roswell>>??

Bob3
February 18th, 2003, 03:35 PM
This should fix you up:

http://marsattacks.warnerbros.com/

landlocked
February 19th, 2003, 06:47 PM
roturner once bubbled...
My guess is that your ray-gun or whatever it was
This is sarcasm right?

roturner once bubbled...
Ever try shooting a moving target from anything other than point-blank range? How about one 20 times faster than you? R.. [/B]Yes... skeet and trap come to mind.

Political motivations aside, if you don't know what your talking about..... well you know.


Bob3The Army didn't have the backpack nukes, those were for the Seals & Marines.[/B]Funny, many years ago I used to guard the things... for the Army. Are you sure? :D

Bob3
February 19th, 2003, 07:35 PM
... many years ago I used to guard the things... for the Army.
Hey, divulging classified info is good for 10 years, $10,000, or both.
Luckily they usually let minor discretions slide, so as not to lend credability to them. Not that any gradeschooler can't look the info up in the Funk & Wagnals anyhoo.;)
What's the time frame? Maybe the Navy gave theirs to the Army when they got old, like they did with the food. :tease:

bobafett21
February 27th, 2003, 12:32 AM
I have friends who work for the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission and are enforcement divers. In other words, they get to dive a great deal while enforcing spear fishing.

These divers carry a Glock; however, it's not for protection underwater. It's used if things get out of hand when they bring divers up to check for illegal activties.

the sharkman
February 27th, 2003, 04:12 AM
I am actually a Glock armorer. Yes, you can fire one underwater, but if you do there are a few things you better make sure to do if you plan on trying this. If you don't, your handgun could actually blow up. First, make sure you charge the handgun underwater to make sure the barrel is full of water, otherwise there is too much pressure in the barrel the round must overcome due to the air inside it. You also should replace the spring clips which are attached to the firing pin assembly. This piece should be replaced with the ones which are grooved for water. These are available only to Navy Seals (so I am told), but you can easily groove your own. Basically, I would not try it without switching/ grooving the spring clips. They advertise that this gun is firable underwater, but they fail to say what you need to do to do it right.

sharkman
:guitar:

sailnj
February 27th, 2003, 09:44 PM
It sounds like everyone is armed to the teeth. Isn't shooting a gun underwater just like when the astronauts fired one on the moon and then had to plot it's trajectory for the next several missions. I mean, what's the point?

The one place I thought I was safe from all the street violence,..... oh woe is me
:maniac: :maniac:

dmdalton
February 28th, 2003, 10:06 AM
the sharkman once bubbled...
...You also should replace the spring clips which are attached to the firing pin assembly. This piece should be replaced with the ones which are grooved for water. These are available only to Navy Seals (so I am told), but you can easily groove your own. Basically, I would not try it without switching/ grooving the spring clips....

Anyone now can get the special firing spring clips from any Glock parts supplier. Try "Top Glock". They cost $9 I think. My son bought some and I told him he better not use them. That they do is insure that the firing pin is not slowed down by the water. They do nothing to relieve pressure relative to the discharge.

Firing a Glock or any firearm underwater is foolish. Prior to politcal correctness I would say it was STUPID.

Dave D

NYPI
August 9th, 2005, 02:35 PM
DPV jacking and fin bi's...crime rate on the rise. I'm packing the next time out...

Ishie
August 9th, 2005, 02:55 PM
I read that a spearfisher in Catalina shot a GW in the nose that was getting too friendly, and it wanted none of it, and left. Maybe you don't need fire power?

Wayward Son
August 9th, 2005, 03:25 PM
Seem's to me if there really was a need for self-protection from predators while sport diving, something would have been made availiable years ago.

They did. They're called "bangsticks" and "powerheads". I carry a powerhead chambered in 30-06 mounted under the barrel of my speargun. Hopefully won't need it, but I do personally know divers who have been molested by sharks to the point where they used powerheads on them. And these are guys who do not want to use their powerheads, they do so reluctantly.

Carrying a pistol such as a Glcok would certainly be more convenient than a bangstick, but a bangstick is designed to be used down there while a Glock isn't.

DallasNewbie
August 9th, 2005, 03:26 PM
These are available only to Navy Seals (so I am told), but you can easily groove your own.

I don't know why SEALs would be interested in Glock parts, since they don't carry Glocks. I have no first hand knowledge, but reliable sources indicate that serious people who need to use firearms underwater prefer revolvers anyway. If you want to have some real fun, ask this question over at Glocktalk (http://www.glocktalk.com).

Heffey
August 9th, 2005, 04:26 PM
I watched a shark program in which an abalone diver off the California coast was filmed.
Part of his dive preparation involved loading his specially prepared Glock.

If I recall correctly he had a holster built in to, or strapped on to the outside of his right thigh.

He claimed that the gun fires underwater and is quite effective at shorter distances.

He appeared to have all of his fingers. :D

do it easy
August 9th, 2005, 05:04 PM
The shock/pressure waves in water can really damage internal organs (ever heard of lithotripsy?). Shooting a pistol underwater can lead to property damage, serious bodily injury or even death.

NOTE: Glock, Inc., specifically disclaims any and all liability from anyone performing or attempting to perform underwater firing with a Glock pistol -- you do so at your own risk.

Dave D.

I don't know what lithotripsy is, but I was warned that firing a gun underwater anywhere near you could result in severe diarhea for several days. I don't think that would bother the shark at all.

Darn- I just noticed that this thread is 2.5 years old.

nwdiver2
August 9th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Years ago I banged an abandon wood piling (my dive buddy wouldn’t volunteer) underwater with a 12 gauge bang stick. It hurt my ears a lot (even with a heavy cold water hood) and the kick of the stick shot it out of my hand even holding on tight. It may have been a more pleasant experience against a shark (softer than a piling).

For years I had a .44 mag tip for a Hawaiian sling (or spear) but never used it. Yes they do make water proof ammo.

Ishie
August 9th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I watched a shark program in which an abalone diver off the California coast was filmed.
Part of his dive preparation involved loading his specially prepared Glock.

If I recall correctly he had a holster built in to, or strapped on to the outside of his right thigh.

He claimed that the gun fires underwater and is quite effective at shorter distances.

He appeared to have all of his fingers. :D

Hmm... and the rock that keeps tigers away.

Ab diving is a bit more high risk than diving since you are pretty much doing a great impression of a less than adequate seal, but off this coast, we're worried about whites if anything, and if they tag an ab diver, that diver isn't going to see it in time to shoot it.

Damselfish
August 9th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I heard that you can shoot the glock pistol underwater and that it can be used as protection against predators. What do you guys think about that? Bang Sticks are illegal in many states from what I understand.

I wonder what effects it would have underwater, and how far a bullet like a .45 or 9mm will travel underwater and still be effective enough to penetrate the skin of a big animal like a 12'+ shark? If it gets close shoot it right in the head or multiple shots in the gills or other areas.

Would it actually be dangerous to shoot underwater or is it more of a noice maker?
If you fired at a tank underwater would it explode?

Sorry.

(yes, I know it's an old thread.)

Heffey
August 9th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Hmm... and the rock that keeps tigers away.

Ab diving is a bit more high risk than diving since you are pretty much doing a great impression of a less than adequate seal, but off this coast, we're worried about whites if anything, and if they tag an ab diver, that diver isn't going to see it in time to shoot it.
Hearing the Ab diver's stories, left me with the same impression.

Evidently the place he goes is very bad for GW sharks and at certain times of the year only a fool would get in the water.

He dives there year round. I guess that answers a few questions. :D

Gary D.
August 9th, 2005, 08:03 PM
There are two things that will protect you from sharks if you feel threatened by them.

First is education. Back in the 60’s we used “Bang Sticks” in a wide variety of caliber’s from 22 to 12ga.. But back then we didn’t know crap about what was dangerous and what wasn’t.

I’d like to know when someone is going to invent a “Sea Urchin” repellant. Though not scientific I’ll bet those little spinney critters have caused more pain and discomfort than all the sharks in the world combined. Who knows, maybe they will invade the land someday. Make sure you lock your doors at night.

Second is if someone feels so threatened by the critters in the sea that they have to carry a gun underwater, stay home and watch “Attack of the Killer Tomato’s”.

As far as guns go most if not all will fire underwater. Ballistics will vary and performance will be poor but they will fire. The ammunition for the most part is waterproof and will last for long periods of time underwater and still fire.

Relax enjoy the dive and leave the guns at home. We don’t need any “Swim-by” shootings.

Gary D.

Mantasscareme
August 9th, 2005, 08:45 PM
The Mythbusters tested the bullet-stopping power of water. A .9mm round barely goes three feet before breaking up.

Tom Smedley
August 9th, 2005, 11:07 PM
The devastating effects of a cartridge fired underwater come not from the projectile but from the expanding gasses. Powerheads or Glock pistols have to have muzzle contact with the intended target for grave damage to occur.

MikeC
August 10th, 2005, 12:49 AM
It sounds like everyone is armed to the teeth. Isn't shooting a gun underwater just like when the astronauts fired one on the moon and then had to plot it's trajectory for the next several missions. I mean, what's the point?

The one place I thought I was safe from all the street violence,..... oh woe is me
:maniac: :maniac:

What violence?? I'm almost 44 and I have owned a firearm since I was 14. Other then injuring myself, hot casings going down my shirt.. catching a piece of finger with a magazine, there has never been any violence in my home. Maybe two parents and good schools do count for something.

Ishie
August 10th, 2005, 01:49 AM
I'm not armed in the water. I figure there's no real point, and the risk is minimal.

My mom did use a bang stick on the Cordell Bank Expedition in the 70s, but that's a high GW area and she was the assigned safety whose job was to essentially sit on the bottom and watch for the landlord while other team members collected samples. They did give her the kind of laughable advice that if she used it, make sure the team members were behind her because it could blow eardrums. She said if she was close enough to touch a shark with it, her teammates could deal with bad ears.

Guns don't bother me with education and in the right hands. I have a Model 39 9mm. My worst injury was a shell casing in the bra (by way of the top of the shirt). I just don't really see a need for one in the water. I figure in the water, I am more likely to blow my leg off than get a shark, and if I have time to see the shark, it probably wasn't interested in eating me anyway.

For ab diving off the North Coast, the only places I can think of that would be suicidally sharky would be the Farallons or Ano Nuevo, and you can't ab dive off either, so I'd say why arm yourself? More likely to drown by getting the piece tangled in the kelp.


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