Cave techniques in an Ice environment+

Do you use cave techniques under ice?

  • I don't cave dive under ice... no way!

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • I haven't, but I've considered it

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • I make some modifications, but basically treat it like a cave

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • I just act like it's a cold cave and go for it

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • I'm not cave certified

    Votes: 8 29.6%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

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Ice diving is a totally separate type of diving. There are different lines used, surface support, protocols. Ice diving is totally separate from any other type of diving.
 
Ice diving falls under the heading of "overhead environment"
Cave diving is classified as "penetration".

I've been freediving through the ice, wouldn't do that in a cave.

Make sure your regs are cold water rated, something not needed in a cave.
Use heavier line, preferably poly, so it floats. End of line is on the diver, extra line is topside. Diver has no reels.
It's preferable to use a line for each diver, as well as a topside tender for each.
If you lose the line, you go up & wait for the backup diver to find you, as he has a line at least 1.5x your length.
I'm leaving a few things out, those are just the high points/differences.
 
Divesherpa once bubbled...
Ice diving is a totally separate type of diving. There are different lines used, surface support, protocols. Ice diving is totally separate from any other type of diving.

This thread isn't about the type of ice diving that leaves you at the end of a 100ft rope, like you might find in a traditional ice diving class.

I'm interested in those that may have treated the ice like an overhead penetration (in most or all aspects... line, 1/3's, etc).
 
Using cave line & reel is a distinct safety hazard for ice diving.
You don't want to take a reel/spool with you, your tender topside is supposed to be in constant contact with you by feeling your line.
You're going to need heavier line, most prefer 3/8" poly line, which will float & not play with tree branches, rocks, etc.
You also want the line hooked onto your harness, I also have a loop in mine so I can hang a couple fingers in it for extra feel for line pull communication.

Using thirds is good, and you absolutely want a redundant air supply.
 
that I can see is the desirability of a surface support team, safety divers, etc. to set up and run a safe dive site.

As Bob3 noted, thirds and redundant air are necessary, but these are prudent when planning deep wreck dives also. They are not techniques or equipment unique to cave diving (or ice). (Perhaps I misunderstand your question.)

In terms of using cave techniques beneath ice, I cannot think of many similarities. They are two very different evolutions. As noted previously, the 'buddy teams' are one wet and one dry communicating via the line. Divers do not dive in close proximity for fear of fouling one another's lines (thus sending false signals). Not like cave penetration teams that I've heard of. (I am not a certified cave diver.)

ABOVE the ice, however, its another matter. We used one team to cut the triangle with chainsaws, a second to shovel the lanes that radiate out away from the hole in all directions, a third to set out wooden pallets & tarps, insert ice screws and lay-out safety lines, and a forth to set up the warming tent and start the stoves. Having organized support personnel makes all the difference in the world. While I've never been involved in any organized cave diving logistics (e.g. WKPP, Mexico, etc.), from all I've ever read or heard of them this is quite similar - the surface support staff and safety divers make it go more smoothly and safely for the penetration divers.

Thats the most striking similarity from my perspective.

My $.02 worth!

Doc
 
I know a few cave divers who do ice dives like cave dives. They anchor a heavy line at the surface and at the bottom under the hole and run a reel from there. I've never done it but ot isn't anything new.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I know a few cave divers who do ice dives like cave dives. They anchor a heavy line at the surface and at the bottom under the hole and run a reel from there. I've never done it but ot isn't anything new.

Was just talking to an Ice and Cave Instructor Sunday and asked him about this. He said the only time he DOESN'T dive it like a cave dive is when he's teaching a PADI Ice Diving class.

Otherwise, he runs the Poly line from surface to a tiedown beneath the surface, breaks out the reel and makes his primary and secondary tie offs, and does 1 or 2 explorer reels worth of diving.
 
There is a thread on the "Cave Divers Forum" about ice diving.
 
Taking the safety factor out of the equation by eliminating the topside tender is not a very good way to go about things. With no way to communicate with the backup diver, he's effectively eliminated too.

It sure doesn't meet OSHA standards for SAR or PSD work, but I guess neither does freediving through the ice.
:wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
https://xf2.scubaboard.com/community/forums/cave-diving.45/

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